LHR T5 40 minute rule

[t1grm]

A while back I got stuck in traffic and arrived at LHR T5 just in time for my flight to BRU – or so I thought. I was checked in online, hand baggage only. I tried to go through passport control 35 minutes before my flight – close but just in time – not. Apparently BA now put you down as a no show if you are not airside 40 minutes before departure.

This is all automated. When they scan the barcode on your boarding pass it posted me up as a no show and they send you to the check in desk. My flight wasn’t even boarding. The terminal was quiet and there was no queue for security. I could have easily been through security and sitting at the gate before the flight was called.

As it was I ended up having a futile conversation with the human tape recorder sitting at the check in desk who simply said I had been put down as a no show, my seat had been given to someone else, and I had to go to the sales desk. I continued the argument with the sales desk (by this time it was probably too late anyway) and to add insult to injury they told me that the flight was half empty so my seat hadn’t been given to someone else – it was just the system that doesn’t let you through after 40 minutes!

As I was on a no changes ticket and it was the last flight of the day I elected to jump back in the car and drive to Dover rather than pay a hotel and line BA’s pockets some more. As far as I am aware this is just a T5 thing. Not that I make a habit of it but it’s another element of flexibility taken out of BA’s offering. So be warned. I will fly BMI out of T1 in future. At least I have the option of running for the gate if I get stuck.

[wkw198]

you will have a job to fly BMI. they have been taken over by BA and once they figure out what they want to do you can be sure that all the BMI flights will be folded into BA ones out of T5. word is they are just keeping the flights going as they are for the moment whilst they decide which destinations to reallocate the precious heathrow slots to (the ones that make the most money!)

[t1grm]

Oh bugger... best avoid LHR and use LGW then... :\

[Basil]

AFAIK, been like that for some time.
Total bollocks!
We used to accept 'runners'. If the flight was closed when you got to the gate, too bad, but at least you could have a go.

[Skipness One Echo]

It's called conformance and it was introduced as BA's on time performance was in the toilet at LHR. This - 35 minute rule was introduced when T5 was opened because of the sheer size of the complex. Your flight might be departing from T5C which even at a run still involves waiting for a train, bear in mind they want the gate shut nice and early. It also means a late passenger (s) needs a staff escort all the way back from T5 B/C as arrivals and departures are segregated? I think *some* leeway should be allowed for domestics which to my knowledge, reliably depart from 501-507 or thereabouts, certainly do-able in five minutes to the gate at speed.

Speaking of on time pressure, my Brussels Airlines departure out of LHR pushed at ETD -12 last Saturday , I was last man on with 15 minutes to go, and the Emirates on stand next to me at Glasgow last night was also pushed a quarter of an hour early.

[Gonzo]

Conformance is not just designed to give you enough time to get to the aircraft, it's also designed to allow BA enough time to offload your bag if you don't make it without delaying the flight.

[WHBM]

Your flight might be departing from T5C....
OK, but only a minority of flights actually depart from T5C, there are plenty from the main building which do not even involve the silly train. As there are walking times shown around Heathrow's terminals of different times to get to the various gates, why can't there be variable conformance times as well ?

As I understood it, the whole conformance thing at T5 (and only T5) at Heathrow) was introduced as a "spite" by BAA on BA, when the latter complained to the CAA about short-staffing at the T5 security checks, leading to excessive departure delays.

[Basil]

my Brussels Airlines departure out of LHR pushed at ETD -12 last Saturday , I was last man on with 15 minutes to go, and the Emirates on stand next to me at Glasgow last night was also pushed a quarter of an hour early.
I'd a boss once who was (quite rightly) very keen for on-time departures.
At one domestic station he leant on the station staff so much that he departed significantly ahead of schedule.
On the taxi out, company called to say that a passenger had turned up on time but missed the flight due early push.
Back to the terminal to pick up passenger followed by a (now) late departure.
Didn't know whether to :} or :{

[nivsy]

I know it is a bit of a thread move but to be honest I do not think i have ever had an on time push back at LHR never mind an early one. I usually despair when getting an early puch back and taxi for early departure en route to LHR cos it ends up waiting for a stand at LHR for what seems like an age.

I do however smile when we get going early out of or inbound Bristol with EZY - then you can really can say early away and early in! And this has happened more often than not in my fairly recent experience.

Nivsy

[ConstantFlyer]

The bigger the airport, the less flexibility possible in all aspects of the passenger experience. As a 'constant flyer', I have consistently had the best customer experiences at medium-sized and small airports. Sadly, places like Heathrow are just tooooooooo big for their own good, the variety of destinations notwithstanding.

[edi_local]

I've heard that when T2 re-opens that a similar scheme will come into play there, so beware late runners! ;)

[SeenItAll]

Just a question, but is this 35/40 minute cutoff based on the scheduled time of departure listed on your boarding pass, or on an updated time of departure currently shown for the flight? Given the frequency with which planes are delayed, it would seem crazy to cancel your reservation based simply on the originally scheduled departure time. And given how hopelessly optimistic delayed flight departure times are listed, that too would seem quite unfair.

[Sygyzy]

SIAll.

It's a cut-off! If you're so tight time on time you're questioning whether it's Sched ETD or actual you're much better off not wasting any more time and going to a Customer Service desk and seeing what they can do for you.

I should think that although sophisticated, it ain't that sophisticated and will rely on the Sched ETD. In fact I've been told that it's actually a 37 minute cut-off but remember you're dealing with 'security' here and they'll have no leeway if your boarding card doesn't swipe green.

S

[SeenItAll]

That's not my point. Sometimes the airline will announce hours ahead that a flight will be departing late (I've received such texts). I may have already printed out my boarding pass at home. Does this cut-off policy mean that unless I still arrive at security 37 mimutes before the originally scheduled departure time I am screwed? If this is the case, what purpose is there in airlines ever telling you there will be a delay?

[edi_local]

I'd imagine that security have some kind of real time database which is checked whenever a boarding card is scanned. If a flight is leaving on time then passengers running late will not be allowed through. If a flight is delayed by an hour or less then it may already be assumed that all passengers would be be airside already and checked in at the normal time. If there is a very long delay which results in the airline keeping check in open for longer (say a delay of around 4 or 5 hours where passengers are informed in advance and advised to turn up later) then security will stay open for longer allowing everyone to get through in reasonable time.

[Sygyzy]

Sorry, I did indeed miss your point there-but I believe it's been covered subsequently.

S

[SeenItAll]

Sygyzy: no harm, no foul. It's just that given the time variability with which a flight actually does close its door, and given the very long lines at landside check-in desks and with security, I would very much prefer to have the option of sorting out my issues (such as they may evolve) from the airside of the airport and not out by the street. In general, I would think that this would give me more options.

In any event, thanks for the heads-up. I shall not be dawdling landside when I next visit LHR. ;)

[t1grm]

Fine except I was travelling hand luggage only. I could understand if they stopped you dropping luggage off 40 mins before a flight.

Edit: This was a response to post 6. How do I quote other posts?

[wiggy]

OK, but only a minority of flights actually depart from T5C, there are plenty from the main building which do not even involve the silly train

But another problem is some of those flights, some longhaul, some shorthaul which seemingly depart the "main building" in reality depart from a remote stand which can on occasions could involve a bus ride out to the stands beyond T5C....seeing as the last bus for these usually roll out of T5A around 20 minutes before STD there's still no scope for "runners".

Having said that I'm not a fan of the -35 minute rule either, but as SKipness 1E rightly said " BA's on time performance was in the toilet at LHR".

[WHBM]

Having said that I'm not a fan of the -35 minute rule either, but as SKipness 1E rightly said " BA's on time performance was in the toilet at LHR".
How much of this was due to the decision to move from bulk load bags (pax no show at gate, go inside and extract bag) to containerised baggage (re-marshal GSE and all personnel, some elements of which are invariably not available right now, up, get containers all out again, then go inside and extract bag, then load them all back in again, etc, etc).

Was once on a BA 747 departing Heathrow where on taxi out it was discovered there was a bag mismatch, over to remote stand, nearly 60 minutes to get the GSE back in place to get the bag out.

[Gonzo]

t1grm


Fine except I was travelling hand luggage only. I could understand if they stopped you dropping luggage off 40 mins before a flight.

Agreed, but look at this from BA's point of view.

35 minutes for everyone is easy to police, easy to understand, and does not lead to accusations of unfair treatment ("Well, you're letting him through, why not me?" or "I was let through last time with 20 minutes to go").

If you, as BA, choose a different route, where do you draw the line?

Hand luggage only vs hold baggage?
T5A v T5B v T5C?
Able bodied v wheelchair?
Young v old?
Frequent v infrequent flyer?
Flown from T5 before v T5 virgin?
Near stand v far stand?
Near stand to N security is a far stand to S security and vice versa
Flight still on time or running a few minutes late?

Not defending the policy, but if you make it anything other than a blanket time, then any other criteria of determining 'conformance' will inevitably provoke stories and customer service issues when someone who was let through for one flight gets denied for another flight.

[ExXB]

Edit: This was a response to post 6. How do I quote other posts?

Click on the reply button in the bottom right hand corner of the subject post. Your browser will refresh with the 'reply to thread' box.

Look up to the top of the page where you will see the URL which ends in 'noquote=1'. Change that so it reads 'noquote=0' and press enter (or click on the refresh button).

Or, you can copy the text into the reply box, highlight it and click on button that looks like a text bubble (3rd from the left). This won't pick up the userid of the original poster.

[ExXB]

[B]t1grmAgreed, but look at this from BA's point of view.

35 minutes for everyone is easy to police, easy to understand, and does not lead to accusations of unfair treatment ("Well, you're letting him through, why not me?" or "I was let through last time with 20 minutes to go").

If you, as BA, choose a different route, where do you draw the line?

Hand luggage only vs hold baggage?
T5A v T5B v T5C?
Able bodied v wheelchair?
Young v old?
Frequent v infrequent flyer?
Flown from T5 before v T5 virgin?
Near stand v far stand?
Near stand to N security is a far stand to S security and vice versa
Flight still on time or running a few minutes late?

Not defending the policy, but if you make it anything other than a blanket time, then any other criteria of determining 'conformance' will inevitably provoke stories and customer service issues when someone who was let through for one flight gets denied for another flight.

With today's data mining technology etc. this should easily be done. Rather than having a fixed time cutoff, the agent should get a Red, Yellow, Green (and other shades in-between). S/he can then say NO, RUN (but no guarantee) or You're OK. But applying the same rule when security queues are 30m at times when they are 5m (and v.v.) is insane. It seems to be all about the airline and not the customer. A proper airline would invest in improving their passenger's experience rather than frustrating it. (But I hate BA, so take that into consideration)

[WHBM]

Not defending the policy, but if you make it anything other than a blanket time, then any other criteria of determining 'conformance' will inevitably provoke stories and customer service issues when someone who was let through for one flight gets denied for another flight.
So why, therefore, are there different conformance rules (or none) at other Heathrow terminals, including the BA flights that now operate out of T1 and T3 ?

[Miken100]

Around 18 months ago I was on an early BA flight out of T5 to Athens, it was tight I knew and I underestimated just how long the bus took from the big Premier Inn round to T5 so I was up against it. Had an e-boarding card on my phone, ran from the bus to the bag drop with 2 mins to spare. The agent took my bag, tagged it and (so I thought) dispatched it down the chute and told me to run to security. (I am not a serial 'late arriver' this is the one and only time I've had to run like this).

I arrived at security to be told I was too late and to go back to the BA passport desk as there was a "message on the system".

At the passport desk they said I had missed the flight and to go to customer services where they fleeced me of £300 to get on the next one (the next guy in line had to pay £800 as I had taken the last economy seat I overheard every one of his swear words!). Whilst I paid a BA person brought my bag which hadn't been sent down the belt after all (funny that).

I wrote to BA customer services and was completely ignored - twice! I now avoid T5 at all costs (in fact I almost always use the train now for domestic travel). I have flown out of LHR and MCR for many many years and have never been treated like that and in the old T1 staff did their best to help you through if they could. T5 is a machine - it may be a very efficient machine but we are now cattle and the operators of that machine behave in a very inhuman way. If this is mass travel then no thanks....

[Gonzo]

ExXB,

With today's data mining technology etc. this should easily be done. Rather than having a fixed time cutoff, the agent should get a Red, Yellow, Green (and other shades in-between). S/he can then say NO, RUN (but no guarantee) or You're OK. But applying the same rule when security queues are 30m at times when they are 5m (and v.v.) is insane. It seems to be all about the airline and not the customer. A proper airline would invest in improving their passenger's experience rather than frustrating it. (But I hate BA, so take that into consideration)

WHBM,

So why, therefore, are there different conformance rules (or none) at other Heathrow terminals, including the BA flights that now operate out of T1 and T3 ?

T5 is unique in that all the flights are handled by the same airline, the vast majority of the flights are of that airline. So I would imagine that it is far easier to set a terminal-wide policy when you only have to agree with yourself.

Again, I'm not defending this policy, but it appears to me that BA have calculated that the benefits - blanket time publicised in advance and improvements in performance from conformance (quicker overall boarding, less delays due to hold baggage removal) outweigh the impact of such a policy.

Experienced airport users can always pick holes in such a widespread policy, because we know the quickest route to each stand, we know how to get through security as quickly as possible, we'll always be ok, get there in time etc etc. However, we are not the majority of an airline's passengers.

[WHBM]

However, we are not the majority of an airline's passengers.
But experienced users are, quite possibly, the majority of the revenue !

Incidentally, as I understand it, it's a BAA policy, not BA; BA were quite hacked when it was introduced because they had been complaining about pax being late at gate due to short-staffing by BAA of the security. It's yet another nail in BA's domestic network because for these passengers it's unreasonable extra time compared to what we all knew of the separate domestic side at T1. It came on the heels of the time out to the terminal from London already being extended considerably when T5 opened, it's a good couple of miles further by road and subject to M25 delays which never previously impacted.

BA had originally negotiated for a separate security for domestic (just like T1 used to have), that pointed towards the domestic gates, and although leading into a common area was only available for those with domestic BC's - BAA nixed that one, of course, because you might not walk past all the tat in their shops. Hopefully the next area for the Monopolies Commission to go for will be the terminals within Heathrow, where BA actually get the chance to buy T5 and run it themselves. It's ironic that the only terminal BA actually own on their network at present is the one in JFK.

[Chuchinchow]

Slightly OT, but let me tell you about an experience at FCO on Sunday.

I was sitting in the BA lounge, sipping a Peroni, before gathering up my goods and chattels to go on the long and tortuous route to the gate. For those unfamiliar with FCO, this involves traversing two escalators, riding a shuttle train to a distant satellite departure area, and ascending yet another escalator.

The vast majority of the embarking pax managed to navigate their way through this maze - apart from two DYKWIAs who held up the entire flight while feverish efforts were made to locate them, claiming that no announcement had been made in the BA lounge.

Now I understand the need for the 35 minute cut-off at LHR T5.

[Peter47]

I volunteered to be "bumped" from an oversold BA LHR - SIN flight from T4 in March 2010. I was told to hold on until check in closed to see if a seat became available or if QF had any spare. Things wern't sorted out until about 30 minutes prior to departure. What happens at T5 now - if a seat becomes avialble does it go the fittest standby passenger?

There is a story that a connecting domestic to international pasenger took a wrong turn at T5 and wan't allowed back through security as there was less than 35 minutes to go. Perhaps the clever computers gave BA enough time to offload his bag.

[Skipness One Echo]

Hmmmm so if not -35 then what? -15 for T5A, -25 for T5B and keep - 35 for T5C? It's not cost free if someone turns up at the gate late as if they do miss the flight they need a staff escort back. Unlike most US airports or the likes of AMS, LHR has something of a one way system for passenger flow.