PAINT SCHEME DHC-1 CHIPMUNK

[WZ 877]

Hello,
Who can tell me what are RAL's color palette references of the RAF paint scheme 1973, concerning the DHC-1 CHIPMUNK?
Red, white and grey light.
Thank.

[sycamore]

Try the `Flypast ` forums,`historic ` threads,and look for the Chipmunk question...on `keypublishing`

[WZ 877]

Thank you!

[Dora-9]

WZ877:

I can't help with the precise colour matches, but when my Chipmunk "box of bits" arrived here in 1996 there were FOUR shades of red present on the airframe!

Also, if you're talking about 1973 then you're looking at the first, less common, permutation of the Red/White/Light Grey scheme. This comprised the red/white fuselage; wingroots panels, wing leading edge, wingtip in red with all fabric areas grey; tailplane is red but elevators in grey. Only a few RAF Chipmunks wore this scheme, whereas the entire fleet eventually ended up in the post 74 scheme (wing outer panels red and elevators red, wingroots grey).

Perhaps this explains it better (but note that the shadow hides the upper aircraft's red wingroots)

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/Blithering/chippies.jpg

[WZ 877]

Thank you Dora!
Mine is like the one with the code J!

[bobward]

Go onto the Hannants website and see if you can get hold of one of the old Modeldecal decal sheets for the Chippie. From memory it was on one of the older sheets. Their references were excellent, usually based on personal observation and use of BS381 colour swatches.

Hope this helps a bit

[WZ 877]

Thank you!
I didn't found, my search is for a true aircraft; not for a model.

[Dora-9]

WZ877 - as a self-confessed Chipmunk pedant, a few more thoughts.

1. In 1973 your aircraft just may have had the scheme depicted on "J". The scheme was introduced by H.307 in 1973, but as aircraft were only repainted when their condition required it, it may not have carried this scheme in that year. It's really hard to tell the two schemes apart in most B&W photos - the wingroots are the clue.

2. I'm not sure, but I read this as you wanting to paint the aircraft as it was in 1973? Bear in mind that the stencils changed throughout the aircraft's life (e.g. the NATO "hook" lifting point symbol didn't appear until much later), I'm still trying to pin down a date for the halved black/white spinner and the white striped blades (certainly not in 1973) and all Chipmunks carried underwing serials until at least 1983.

3. Assuming your Chipmunk is currently in its RAF markings, photograph/measure all markings before it's stripped. I'm always amazed at restorations that fail to replicate markings accurately - incorrectly styled serials are a common error.

Hope this helps!

[WZ 877]

Hello Dora,
There is a world betwen my mind and how I can translate it.
I have made a lot of pictures before remove the fabric cover and delete the paint! I just want to know the references of the paint. The current references with the RAL system. I have a result with a paint color chart, but I don't want make mistakes, that's why I ask to the honorable assembly. Sorry for my bad english, google translator help me, but when I see the result when a British use Google translator to write in french, I have a doubt.

[DaveReidUK]

Bite the bullet and paint it in this scheme instead:

http://www.na3t.org/images/photos/air/AG11440.jpg

[WZ 877]

Hello Dave,
Thank you for the board. This picture show WZ 877 when she was at the Bomber Command, with a hook to tow glider. Nice picture!

[sycamore]

Dora and WZ, I refer you back to the thread on `Flypast`,as there are drawings added later,and further comments...use the `Search` ,as the thread is not on the front 2 pages.

[Noyade]

I refer you back to the thread on `Flypast`Is this the thread you're referring to?

Two part Chipmunk question. - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=118253)

[sycamore]

IT is ,Graeme.. alot of knowledgeable chaps there who will know a man who knows,if you know what I think you know..!!

[Dan Winterland]

I'm sure there was an official colour for the RAF training scheme, but I suspect the exact specification was sometimes down to the supplier. I base my comments on flying RAF training aircraft for about 8 years as a student and instructor. The Jet Provosts and Chipmunks I flew were quite a dark red. But later, when instructing on Chipmunks, the ones coming back from major servicing seemed to have been painted in a more vivid red with a slight hint of orange. The Tucanos supplied from Shorts were a different shade altogether with a brighter colour than the JPs.

There are a lot of factors - for example paint technology and regulations as to what goes into paint can change. Also, red pigment is less UV stable than others so the colour will change over time - the JPs longest out of major serviving had noticeable fade. Plus you need to realise any colour image of aircraft won't necessarily give an accurate representaiton due to film differences and/or digital reporduction.

[Speedbird48]

WZ 877,

Have you looked at the "Caledonian Chipmunks" web site?? They have a section on there with a lot of photgraphs that may answer your question.

A rather quiet site but a lot of well informed people use it and it may help you.

Speedbird 48.

[WZ 877]

Hi all,
I think my request was too vague in English. What I seek is the reference of the colors on the RAL.
RAL is a system used for defining standard colors for paint and coatings.

[Lee Howard]

WZ877

Can I ask why you specifically want a RAL reference? The aircraft would have originally been painted using the British BS381-range of colours which is still in use today.

Light Aircraft Grey: BS381C-627

White: White!

Black: Matt or semi-matt black for the anti-dazzle panel.

Fuselage: Signal Red: BS381C-537

Bright Roundel Blue: BS381C-110

Roundels: Post Office Red (alternatively called Cherry Red): BS381C-538.

Regarding fluorescent paint, by 1973 this would not have been painted on but stuck on using strips of "Scotchcal" fluorescent film produced by 3M. It is still available but, as with most fluorescent colours, it fades for a past-time. If you were looking at painting it then RAL 841-GL 2005 is Fluorescent Red/Orange which is a close match.

But fluorescent markings were more associated with the earlier Light Aircraft Grey overall scheme than the later red/white/grey scheme.

Hope that helps.

Regards

Lee

[WZ 877]

Thank you!
WZ is in red/white/grey scheme.
Is there a correlation table between the BS and the RAL?

[Amos Keeto]

[Quote]Hello Dave,
Thank you for the board. This picture show WZ 877 when she was at the Bomber Command, with a hook to tow glider. Nice picture! [Unquote]

I think you'll find that photo was taken in the mid-60s at Little Rissington when the aircraft was with the Central Flying School. It later joined the CFS Skylarks aerobatic team in 1969-70.

[Dora-9]

Lee Howard:

I think I'd be saying that Signal Red was close to BS381C-537. See my earlier comments about WG478 arriving with four distinct shades of red (mind you there were almost certainly four different aircraft present in my "box of bits") and also Dan Winterland's remarks about aircraft arriving back from repainting in a lighter/brighter shade of red. When WK550 arrived in this country the red was rather more orange yet darker than the red on either WK507 or WG478 (all then in original RAF paintwork).

But fluorescent markings were more associated with the earlier Light Aircraft Grey overall scheme than the later red/white/grey scheme.
Hmm, again at the risk of being pedantic, the R/W/G scheme removed the need for DayGlo markings; I'm not aware of any Chipmunk in the R/W/G scheme sporting DayGlo (althjough as always I'm happy to be corrected). Also, many aircraft with the DayGlo strips were still in the earlier overall silver scheme; it didn't just apply to the Light Grey finish. I'd argue that in the earlier photo of WZ877 the finish is silver (look carefully around the nose cowl).

[Amos Keeto]

Firstly Signal Red IS BS381C-537. What is this 'RAL' that WZ877 refers to?

You are quite correct that the R/W/G scheme replaced the dayglo scheme officially from 1968. RAF Chipmunks were initially silver with yellow training bands during the '50s, then were silver with solid orange dayglo paint in the early '60s. From around 1963/64, the sticky dayglo paper strips replaced the dayglo paint as it was hard to maintain. In 1967, the silver was replaced by Light Aircraft Grey paint and the following year the R/W/G scheme was introduced although the first Chippy was not painted in this scheme until early 1971.

[Dora-9]

What Dan and I have been saying is that while BS381C-537 is a precise colour, there were variations to the Chipmunks' Signal Red (welcome to the real world).

While the R/W/LG scheme was promulgated for Training Command in 1968, it didn’t appear on the Chipmunk until 1970 (this was H.293, dated 24.6.1970). The DayGlo strips certainly appeared before “around 1963/64”; there are examples dated in very late 1961 – perhaps these were early trails applications?

[WZ 877]

RAL is a European standard.
RAL Color Chart | www.RALcolor.com (http://www.ralcolor.com/)
Conversion des couleurs RAL Pantone hexadecimal (http://www.imi21.com/conversion-couleur.html)
I would like convert BS reference in RAL reference.
Why? Because I want to use paint of a specific dealer who work only with RAL reference.

[Lee Howard]

RAL = ReichsAusschuß für Lieferbedingungen und Gütesicherung.

There are a number of modelling websites which give cross-references between BS and RAL numbers. Try Googling it.

[Dan Winterland]

''When WK550 arrived in this country the red was rather more orange yet darker than the red on either WK507 or WG478''

Both WG478 and WK550 were EFTS aircraft. I know that 478 didn't have a major serviceing in the last three years of service, I'm not sure about 550, but I suppose from what you said, she did. The first batch of majors done outside the RAF were done by Slingsby's at Kirbymoorside and the paint jobs weren't the best. The marking positions weren't standard and the edges hadn't been rubbed down. When the groundcrew tried to wet and dry them down, it was a tough job as the paint was very hard. it was suggested that it was a two pack polyurethane rather than the more usual cellulose. Later majors were done by CSE at Oxford. They looked better, but the paint was the one I mentioned that had an orange hue. I suspect 550 had the job done there. Also, the paint on the fabric areas cracked as it wasn't as flexible.

[WZ 877]

http://i35.servimg.com/u/f35/11/00/58/99/sam_0913.jpg
http://i35.servimg.com/u/f35/11/00/58/99/sam_1012.jpg
http://i35.servimg.com/u/f35/11/00/58/99/dsc02910.jpghttp://i35.servimg.com/u/f35/11/00/58/99/dsc02912.jpg

[India Four Two]

WZ 877,

Somehow I had missed this thread when it started. Thanks for posting your pictures. A very nice paint job and I have never seen such a clean Gipsy Major. :ok:

I should declare that my Chipmunk flying was in the 60s, so I have a preference for silver or grey colour schemes, but all Chipmunks look great, regardless of the colour scheme. ;)

PS What is the reason for the yellow bands on the undercarriage fairings?

[WZ 877]

Hello,
Thank you for your appreciation! I don't know why there is the yellow bands on the undercarriage fairings! It was like that when we bought the chippie.
She was located at the 7th Air Experience Flight.
http://i35.servimg.com/u/f35/11/00/58/99/jambe_10.jpg

[Wander00]

ISTR the main Chipmunk variant was the T10 - what were T 1-9?

[WZ 877]

Hello,
Maybe the T 1-9 is a variant of the Gipsy Major Series 10 Mk.1 or Mk.2.
In "The De Havilland Gipsy Major Series 10 handbook" I have only :
Gipsy Major 10 Mark 1-1, 1-3, 1-7, 1-1A, 1-3A, 1-7A and Mark 2 and 2-1.
The Gipsy Major Mk.8 is the RAF version of the 10 Mk.2.

[Wander00]

WZ877 - was it your Chipmunk I saw in a hangar at La Rochelle the other week?

[WZ 877]

WZ 877 / F-AZLI is mine and at a friend! I think that you spoke with my friend.

[Danny_Fenton]

I appreciate this is an old thread, but on the off chance that the same peeps that were able to help with the R/W/G paint codes, could help me find out the BS numbers for the trainer yellow fus and wing bands on the silver Chipmunks?

Cheers
Danny

[Amos Keeto]

Hi Danny, although an old thread, as a subscriber to it, your post raised an e.mail alert to it.
The colour for the trainer bands was BS356 Golden Yellow. Some owners have erroneously painted theirs in a 'lemon yellow' and I saw one recently that had the bands painted strangely in light blue!

[Wander00]

WZ877 - is that the aircraft at La Rochelle - in that case we met at the "fin de saison" event for the 75% Mosquito at Fontenay le Comte last autumn. looks a lovely aeroplane

[DaveReidUK]

I saw one recently that had the bands painted strangely in light blue! Based on the scheme worn by Cranwell Chipmunks?

http://www.fandh-aircraft.co.uk/Chipmunks/WB550.jpg

[Amos Keeto]

No, this one had what should be 'yellow' wing and fuselage bands painted in a slightly darker blue. The Cranwell Chipmunks had the 'Cambridge blue' band further forward (as in your photo) and only on the fuselage. If someone is going to repaint their aircraft in RAF colours, then surely they would want to do it as accurate as possible?

[Dora-9]

then surely they would want to do it as accurate as possible? You'd think so, wouldn't you?

[Danny_Fenton]

Thanks for your information. I was at the Chipmunk 69th anniversary gathering at Old warden and saw this Chipmunk with blue bands, is it the one you are referring to perhaps?
http://www.pprune.org/<a data-flickr-embed=&quot;true&quot; data-header=&quot;false&quot; data-footer=&quot;false&quot; data-context=&quot;false&quot;href=&quot;<a href=https://www.flickr.com/photos/53090291@N02/17913068058/in/album-72157653441272982/&quot; target=_blank>https://www.flickr.com/photos/53090291@N02/17913068058/in/album-72157653441272982/&quot;</a> title=&quot;DSC_1603 plus&quot;><img src=&quot;<a href=https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7724/17913068058_ced3e35ee3_k.jpg&quot; target=_blank>https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7724/17913068058_ced3e35ee3_k.jpg&quot;</a> width=&quot;2048&quot; height=&quot;1367&quot; alt=&quot;DSC_1603 plus&quot;></a><script async src=&quot;//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js&quot; charset=&quot;utf-8&quot;></script>

[Danny_Fenton]

Thanks for your information. I was at the Chipmunk 69th anniversary gathering at Old warden and saw this Chipmunk, is it the one you are referring to perhaps?
http://www.modelflying.co.uk/sites/3/images/member_albums/26349/620282.jpg

Cheers
Danny

[Chipmunk Janie]

Hi. I'm the person who created the Gathering of Chipmunks at Old Warden this year for the 69th Anniversary.

I'm working on two projects for next year's 70th; one at Old Warden in May and the at RIAT in July.

I was just Googling around to see if the the aircraft from the 1979 RAF Chipmunk training video "Air Experience Flying" still existed and discovered this. Remember Jump Jump John? I'm aiming to have it playing so that all those old AEF students can get to relive it once more.

[Flybiker7000]

''When WK550 arrived in this country the red was rather more orange yet darker than the red on either WK507 or WG478''
Red is a difficult color to discuss as it fades horrible!
I'm not quite sure about WZ 877's pic's from 2nd august shows the now freshly painted Chipmunk!? In the case: Where was the RAL-code found?

[ABL262]

Hi! Apologies for invading a thread on Chippie paint schemes, but I own a 1973 ex-RAF Bulldog in the same classic Training Command Red/White/Grey. At the moment, I am trying to match the original light green paint colour found on the instrument panel. Any thoughts regarding the correct paint code would be much appreciated.


Regards all,


ABL262