Poo smell in the A330 flight deck after toilet used.

[9 points]

Why does the smell in the front toilet make its way into the flight deck so effectively?
Is there any way of temporarily or permanently fixing this disgusting problem?
:sad::yuk:

OK I know lots of guys will think this is a great opportunity for a joke but could anyone with a serious insight please reply too.

[SloppyJoe]

Put it in the tech log. They can change the filters i believe which helps a bit.

[9 points]

Will do but how about some more explanation as to why and how to fix...

[john_tullamarine]

I suggest that the engineering folk will have the answers to your question.

[9 points]

If I had the opportunity to discuss this with them I would but due to time/language constraints I don't.
Hence my use of this forum.

[esscee]

One can always make the time for important matters. I am sure you make time for the doctor/dentist/family issues etc., so why not make the effort to find time to sort this out.

[9 points]

Perhaps I have been too cryptic.
I have in the past asked engineers about this problem and have had mostly inconclusive replies.
Sometimes they just don't speak english well enough to have a fruitful discussion and that is fine as this is not a country where English is the primary language.
At other times I speak with native english speakers.
The problem occurs on our A332, A343 and A345 types and on almost all flights so I suspect that it is either a design fault or a systemic maintenance system fault. Either way this might explain why the engineers I have asked have not been forthcoming with clear answers.
When I try to probe more I am told that they can't spend the time to bring me diagrams etc as they have multiple aircraft to dispatch and are understaffed. This I believe. I am not permitted to visit the hangar without special clearance and am not going to wade through the red tape required and give up a day off to do that for a problem that is not a safety issue.
This problem has been present for at least 8 years and possibly much longer.
I don't know if it is a problem in other airlines.

I hope that some pprune reader out there might have an insight.

I respectfully ask for information, not further chastisement.

[darkmuffler]

Check the air extraction fan and the filter in the toilet.
Maybe change the aircraftfood;)

[flame_bringer]

It may be a cracked or damaged waste water line.
Have someone to visually inspect the lines, And also the fan has to be working in order to extract the odours so make certain that it works and that there is no blockage in the extract duct.
And make sure that the toilet is properly cleaned and fumigated, Thats all I could think about.

[9 points]

OK thanks fellas.

[dazdaz1]

In the mean time before this problem is solved, could you not hang one of those car air fresheners over the side stick, like the thin type that hangs from the rear view mirror i.e the Fuzzy Bear or Whinnie the Phoo (no joke intended)

Daz

[Bearcat]

The only time I ever got a smell off the fwd loo is when the F/O I was with had a violent bout of diarrhea. The smell was so bad that business class were complaining. I couldn't keep my face straight......Imodium saved the day.

Otherwise toilet smells are not of concern where I am.

[springbok449]

Haven't flown the 340 for a while now but it was pretty common on 343, 345, 346 I think it's just a bad design of the ventilation system on said Airbuses...

[grounded27]

Funny Mig15.....On topic, tried a bag of ground coffee as a bandaid? A decent Colombian brand has been better than any industrial quality air freshener I could find.

[givemewings]

While reading this had the same thought.... grounded has the solution (nice unintentional pun there with the name btw!) :E

Ask the CC for a few coffee bags (still in foils) whenever it happens open one and hang it nearby, it helps. (Of course only works with 'pillow packs') I do recall the same issue on other types as well.

It could also have something to do with the pax profile/catering being served... if you fly to/from destinations which partake in foods which are particularly fragrant, you will notice more - ahem- 'aftereffects' on those flights than on others. Not generalising but spicy foods/curries/stews with lots of garlic will do it every time... you could also use the trick of some scented lotion up the nose... works for me!! :ok:

[Wagdi19]

I have been working for an airline operating A340, A330 for more than 15 years never come across such problem, it could be due to the aircraft configuration as all this fleet is 3 classes. The forward toilet always used by first class pax and flight deck crew and it is always tidy & clean. I would thought this is depends on who is using the loo and how they look after it. As the guys said it could be due to system leak and faulty extract fan.

[SMOC]

I flew the A330/340 many years ago and remember this issue.

This type of problem can't happen on the 747 classic as pack 1 provides the air to the cockpit and it's fresh with no interference from recirculated air. The 747-400 however does receive recirculated air and on some occasions gets some odd smells usually from fwd cargo I believe. It's interesting that the 747-8 has returned to the pack 1 fresh air system like the classic.

So yes I believe it's a design issue on the A330/340 and some combination of pressure differentials ends up forcing toilet air into the cockpit.

I believe the 777 has a positive pressure cockpit designed to prevent smoke entering from the outside, however I don't know if the 777 cockpit receives recirculated air or not. Perhaps to trouble shoot flood the A330/340 toilet with smoke of some kind and you may see where it enters the cockpit the problem is the problem may not be repeatable on the ground?

Good luck.

[mitzy69]

give the toilet a couple of flushes, the vacuum in the bowl should suck out all the smells.
if the plug in the hand washing basin plug is left out open the drain pipe will have a flow of air along it to the drain mast.
well it did on Boeings.
the coffee bag is a good cure for smells.

[Mark in CA]

As SLF, I can confirm this issue also exists in the passenger compartment on smaller Airbus models, too, like A320. I have experience this myself on several UA flights. Not a pleasant experience. Have not noticed it on A340 or A380, and never on any Boeing aircraft.

[going postal]

The lower recirculation fans on 747-400 deliver directly to the fligjt deck. I have seen and smelt whem a rupture vac waste line aft of the lower recirc fan was delivering a lovely odour straight to the flight deck. As for A330 I have not seen or heard of this. I would be inclined to demand having the toilet extraction filter changed and the toilet waste gate and attached plumbing inspected and leak checked. Also note if its only directly after flushing or a consistant smell.....
I have tickets on both of those types.

GP

[going postal]

A330 sinks have drain valve that negates any air flow out regardless of sink plug position. It will only open when liquid flows and shuts automatically when fluid stops.

GP

[Wodrick]

If I recall, and I may not, this is a common Airbus problem and is Maintenance related.
I'm sure it is in the TSM but not as "Flight deck stinks of poo !"
It's a Ducts/Fan/Filter clean issue.

[greatwhitehunter]

I'm a boeing man myself. The 747-400 has 2 Lav/galley extraction fans with one running at any time to remove toilet and galley odours. If both fail its a no go.
The A320 has a single Lav/galley extraction fan. What the A330 has I don't know but I would expect it to have something similar.

[9 points]

When the smells come into the flight deck they seem to be coming from the avionics compartment. The eyeball vent fresh air is not smelly and is a life saver at the time. I dont think the smells come through the door. So the airconditioning system must be circulating the smell from the extraction fan into the avionics bay somehow??
I plan to write it up each time until it stops. (Still too naive.)

[lochias]

A good maintenance practice to clean the toilets pipes and the smell is to get a bucket of crashed ice (7-10 mm diameter ) and about 10 litres of vinegar and flush it down the toilet. then service the waste tank. its a good idea to check the pipe work near the toilet as well.

[Mark in CA]

...it is possible the extraction duct in the fwd lav is blocked up.

Well, at least we're getting gassed by first class poo! :ok:

[going postal]

Unlikely that the duct will be blocked, more likely clogged or duct is collapsed from being clogged for too long

GP

[lomapaseo]

Clear the complaint!

If it's a leak it could be a threat to equipment nearby.

[Arty Craft]

Maybe it's because the engineers are taking so much poo that they're used to the smell? :{

[HAWK21M]

Replace the vent filters......

[Delay 421]

I work for an Australian airline that flies A330-2/300. We have experienced this issue and found air flows fwd from fwd lav into flight deck behind sidewall due to airflow issues. This is due to a restriction to the Lav vent extraction system. We have had the restrictor in the fwd lav extraction duct removed and this seems to solve the problem as there is now a greater airflow into extraction system with restrictor removed. Air is thus no longer moving fwd into flt deck but upwards into lav vent system. Our reports go back as far as 2003 and Airbus are aware of the issue. :ok:

[Basset hound]

How do you legally remove the restrictor from the exraction duct and operate this way? What do you use as documentation as approval?

[stuckgear]

has the aircraft been used on the Hajj ?

[going postal]

You can request an engineering authority to remedy the situation or be dircted by an engineering instruction from a techinical services area.