Noise compaints -Hercules. [Archive]

BEagle

23rd Jul 2012, 08:35

RAF Brize Norton has yet to comment on the figures.

According to BBC Radio Oxford, they were promised a written response from Brize by 0700 this morning, but 'nothing has been received'.....

As far as I'm aware, some of the earlier noise complaints were caused by the 'droning noise' of extended ground running, but others were because, contrary to the FOB, the C-130 was initially being flown at lower levels in the visual circuit - which was pointed out by the locals at some meeting they had with the RAF. The latter point was resolved, but when the C-130 is being caned to death by operations it's hardly surprising that maintenance is necessary at anti-social hours.

As was explained to some WODC councillors recently, you cannot simply back a C-130 onto a de-tuner as you can a VC10 (or, in the case of one tug driver who wasn't aware that the K3 was longer than the C1 and K2, actually into the detuner...:rolleyes:), neither can engines be tested inside a hangar (another WODC councillor's query...:\ ).

It would be interesting to see whether the pattern of nosie complaints has changed - I suspect that it has after the station introduced measures to reduce the impact upon the local population.

Anyway, at least the Voyager is extremely quiet on the approach. Whereas a TriStar, C-130 or C-17 might make people look up and a VC10 will probably waken the dead, the Voyager is almost inaudible.

Heathrow Harry

23rd Jul 2012, 08:38

"According to BBC Radio Oxford, they were promised a written response from Brize by 0700 this morning, but 'nothing has been received'....."

Did no-one tell the Beeb that it was the weekend and officers will be back at their desks at 1200 today, Monday.....................

dagama

23rd Jul 2012, 08:39

NIMBYS the lot of them. Complaining about noise from the Hercules is a joke. Most people in this Country would be pleased to have a Hercules fly around them.

32 Hercules would indeed mean more noise. So how is the local economy benefitting from the influx of the hundreds of Herc folks. Any complaints about that? Thought not.

tezzer

23rd Jul 2012, 08:41

Rebecca Whiteman, who lives in nearby village Black Bourton, said the noise, including ground running engines during the night, was "totally unacceptable."

She said: "We appreciate it is defence and we knew the Hercules were coming but there was no warning about the noise."

Ms Whiteman, who has lived in the village for 14 years,

Enough said, the base, and flying machines have been there HOW long ?

It'll be those noisy church bells next, disturbing the peace on a Sunday morning.

Courtney Mil

23rd Jul 2012, 09:16

Nice to see the usual local support for the people that keep them safe. Quite happy to have the Forces guard the Olympic Jockstrapping, I notice.

green granite

23rd Jul 2012, 09:23

I wonder how many of them were written by Herc guys wanting to go back to Lyneham? :E

BEagle

23rd Jul 2012, 09:28

Nice to see the usual local support for the people that keep them safe.

It was actually quite difficult for BBC Radio Oxford to find many people to complain on-air about the noise. Most of them accepted it.

As I said, now that the RAF has introduced a few changes in the policy for ground-running and visual circuit flying, I expect that the level of complaints has reduced from the original flood.

paully

23rd Jul 2012, 09:28

These whingers want to think themselves lucky Tornadoes arnt operated regularly into Brize.......:ugh:

Ken Scott

23rd Jul 2012, 09:56

Of the 958 complaints how many were repeats by the same vociferous minority who were content to take advantage of lower house prices in the area without considering why they were lower? Unless they moved there before 1938 they should just shut up.

NutLoose

23rd Jul 2012, 09:59

Compulsory purchase their houses for additional married quarters... Problem solved.

Doctor Cruces

23rd Jul 2012, 11:01

The only time I was annoyed by Herc noise was when one of the AC130's was orbiting Watton airfield from first dark to about 0300 one morning. Couldn't sleep, but never had that trouble at Lyneham even when engine running on the Calne strip!
Could go to sleep if it started, never woke me up and the sound of the Hercs on Watton airfield brought several bursts of nostalgia.

Shame it's been declared surplus now, no more HALOs, no more Hercs that I felt I could just reach out and touch just in front of my house when downwind, just plain no more.

Dunno what they're complaining about, i found the sound comforting in a strange way.

Doc C :)

PS, never made complaint about the AC130 because I had an idea what it was practising for and troops covered/lives saved are well worth a couple of lost nights sleep.

Ken Scott

23rd Jul 2012, 11:06

PS, never made complaint about the AC130 because I had an idea what it was practising for and troops covered/lives saved are well worth a couple of lost nights sleep.

Doc C: an attitude that does you credit.

Wander00

23rd Jul 2012, 11:23

So Watton is finally gong - I helped write the op order in 1969 that moved the squadrons to Cottesmore, then ran the ROC camp that year.

Dengue_Dude

23rd Jul 2012, 11:27

Noise complaints - Hercules . . . From the INSIDE or the OUTSIDE :E

air pig

23rd Jul 2012, 11:47

If they want to come up my way, in stream, all of them, bring it on! Seen yet another wokka, more than welcome anytime.

NutLoose

23rd Jul 2012, 18:20

It used to bug the crap out of me that were not allowed to run the Tens during the night because of the locals that had moved next to a bloody airfield and then complained about aircraft noise... :ugh:
Even the Station Commander got into the act and we had a running ban during Church Parade in force... We thought one time when we got told we couldn't run, if we can't beat them, then join them, and we all turfed up to church in our line clothes... Sadly Gods right hand man wasn't have any of it and we were refused entry... One hopes St Peter will be a bit more forgiving in the future.

My last Ground Run in the RAF I did a VIP during God Slot and because it was on a Royal I had permission to do a low power run.... I had them up at full chat:E and OC Ops ended up wanting a chat as the Staish wasn't happy, but with a day to do there wasn't a lot they could do :p

zetec2

23rd Jul 2012, 19:27

Local TV news (Oxford) at teatime, one local resident living in Black Bourton spouting on how noisy the Hercules was, quoted:

"that they have to run at full power for 40 minutes before taking off making life intolerable in our village".

Just where do they find these cretins to interview, surely in the area there are many more noteworthy people to put forward a more sensible & balanced view than the village idiots they find to put in front of the camera.

Rgds, Paul H ( 7 years at BZN on Brits & VC10's & 1 year at Lyneham on C130 as an engineer, been there , done that).

NutLoose

23rd Jul 2012, 19:33

A shift LSS here.. :ok:

fergineer

23rd Jul 2012, 19:42

Running for that long before take off, must have had a Mag problem and was trying to get around it. Didnt know Mag drop tests took that long!!!!

pr00ne

23rd Jul 2012, 19:46

dagama,

"Most people in this Country would be pleased to have a Hercules fly around them."

How on earth do you work that out? Apart from a bunch of spotters and retirees I suspect most people would rather not have the noise at all.

staplefordheli

23rd Jul 2012, 20:10

Ah yes airbases
dont have any round here now, been so noisy since the army took over Cottesmore all those low flying squadies :(

Last time a FJ came past the other month i nearly broke my leg trying to get outside to see it and still missed it

I should imagine hercs producing a low frequency tend to be heard more through the buildings than FJs although Tonkas on reheat at 23-00 hrs were noisy
still miss them all though :{

air pig

23rd Jul 2012, 20:23

Tell the idiots to sue their solicitor, for an inadequate search on purchasing the property, you can't build a damm great f*****g airfield overnight. It's been there far longer than they have, pity it wasn't in the distant past with a wing of SAC B47s, then they'd have really known what noise was !!

Some fool tried the same thing on at Wittering complaining about Harrier noise, on he farmer in Wales who put **** off Biggles on the roof of his barn, why was that house so cheap again, muppets.:E

NutLoose

23rd Jul 2012, 21:05

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Derbyshire | Airport's noise complaints soar (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/derbyshire/6904848.stm)

The main complainer used to work there lol.

ratty1

23rd Jul 2012, 21:11

An RAF Hercules pilot who did not want to be identified said Unless they moved there before 1938 they should just shut up.

Quite.:uhoh:

dagama

24th Jul 2012, 10:09

prOOne

"Most people in this Country would be pleased to have a Hercules fly around them."

How on earth do you work that out? Apart from a bunch of spotters and retirees I suspect most people would rather not have the noise at all.

When the first probed RAF Hercules were flying around the UK, the positive letters received at Lyneham said it all. Thats how I worked it out. That was in 1982. Now, we live in society which takes to whigeing very readily and the noise complaints are just one example.

charliegolf

24th Jul 2012, 10:45

The better you make life for people in a democracy, the more they want- expect, actually. Look at Madge- she buys a house next to a GA field, immediately wants it shut. My school is one of 2 in a run of buildings on the same street. 400 kids arrive and depart over 30 mins in the morning and about 15 in the pm. I'
Ve been there for 19 years- only 2 families have been there that long, they don't whinge. The others, bugger me, they go on!

The answer is for the government to legislate to say that ANY noise, nuisance, environmental bitches that an occupant makes, be lodged with the local authority for search purposes for 25 years. RAF simply asks at the initial contact, "May I just take your name and exact address for local government search updating, please?"

CG

air pig

24th Jul 2012, 11:08

A very good friend of mine was a pad brat in Germany, she told me lessons stopped every 45 mins to allow aircraft to land and take of at Laarbruch, loved it.

Runaway Gun

24th Jul 2012, 11:59

They held their lessons on the runway??

air pig

24th Jul 2012, 13:42

nope just outside on the approach!

Motleycallsign

24th Jul 2012, 14:34

Slight thread drift but allied. Chinook night flying sortie on SPTA, West Everleigh Down to be precise. 'T' on northerly heading. I decided to give the crews a break from LH circuits (and the residents of Upavon MQ's from their telly progs being drowned out). I thinlk we lasted 10 mins before a noise complaint came in from a retired Major in Everleigh village and Odiham Ops requesting I revert to original circuit pattern. Typical NIMBYism!!!!!!!!!!!

NutLoose

24th Jul 2012, 19:48

First Chinook arrived Odious, our Aussie colleague was on the ops desk when some farmer calls to complain the new helicopter is disturbing his livestock, "well they better get used to it mate, because it's going to be here for the next 30 odd years and there are more on the way"... End of conversation.

Xercules

25th Jul 2012, 05:09

The locals of Brize are lucky. Back in the 70s one of Lyneham's roles was JATFOR - the Joint Airborne Task Force - in which a the complete force was dropped in a single pass of (IIRC) 17 paratroop ac followed by 18 dropping stores and vehicles in a 3000 yard stream.

In those days we also did engine checks before take off so 35 Hercs at once had to find room to run up to medium power. The airfield generally went black with the smoke and the citizens of New Zealand village got to repair their outhouses, sheds and fences for free.

However, for exercise safety, the stream was always preceded by a weather ac running 15 minutes ahead. During one such exercise over SW England Gp Capt Freddie Yetman, then station commander, was in Station Ops when the phone rang. All the staff were otherwise busy so Freddie answered it. It was the inevitable complaint "One of your aeroplanes just flew low overf my house". "Where are you?". Location explained, to which Freddie replied, very politely, "Well if you like to wait for another 10 minutes or so there are another 35 following it" and put the phone down. :O:O

Tankertrashnav

25th Jul 2012, 09:18

True, but unfortunately there are many who are opposed to Britain's involvement in military action outside the UK

In one particular instance I include myself in their numbers. That does not mean I have any sympathy with the Wiltshire noise complainers. The only noise I want to see stopped at Brize is the sound of a C17 on approach bringing back more boxes from Afghanistan.

And the sooner the better.

Heathrow Harry

25th Jul 2012, 09:40

"Back in the 70s one of Lyneham's roles was JATFOR - the Joint Airborne Task Force - in which a the complete force was dropped in a single pass of (IIRC) 17 paratroop ac followed by 18 dropping stores and vehicles in a 3000 yard stream. "

ye Gods - were they planning to do another Arnhem??????

Krystal n chips

25th Jul 2012, 10:58

During the late 90's / early 2000's "des res. must have !" postcode frenzy some of the population of Hale Barns and Ashley / Mobberley demanded, no less, a stop to the nasty freight trains using the Manchester-Chester railway line carrying limestone to Northwich...at night.

The railway was built in.... 1863 / 64

Amazing what you discover in your local area that isn't blatantly obvious before you move there.

Basil

25th Jul 2012, 11:17

in which a the complete force was dropped in a single pass
You should see the bad weather penetration & (if it really turns to worms) dispersal plan for a stream assault :eek:

Brian 48nav

25th Jul 2012, 11:24

Yes,something like that!

After the withdrawal east of Suez in '71 the RAF was awash with transport aircraft and it was decided the Army had first call on the Hercules fleet.

One of the reasons why I and lots of mates decided to take our 8 year options 72-74!

coldbuffer

25th Jul 2012, 11:52

As a DEOC, i remember having to wake up the DOC to ask him for permission to carry out Engine runs after 11pm :)

Windy Militant

26th Jul 2012, 09:22

I wonder if the Horsey bint who phoned up Lynham and told them to stop flying over her house as she had an estate agents Viewing has moved to Brize?
Apparently when told of this Staish arranged a pallet drop exercise on the day, guess who's house was under the approach! :ok:

I miss the Alberts over my house, they were soothing, unlike the Corsa brigade on Cirencester way.:ugh:

Burnt Fishtrousers

26th Jul 2012, 12:35

I remember one of those NIMBY types when I was a lad doing glider flying out of South Cerney with the ATC

Turned out some local politician who was also an Ex Major complained about the noise.:=

He phoned us up and was mid rant when the CFI pointed out in the most polite of sarcastic terms that in the not too distant past,whilst his lot were on the beaches up to their waist in water, people learning to fly, out of local airfields, presumably annoying the locals, were preparing to save the country from Hitlers Luftwaffe

..His parting line of "and how much bloody noise does a glider make anyway" had us in stitches

spaniels ears

26th Jul 2012, 16:30

I can sympathise with poor Rebecca, nearby resident of 14 years. I've lived in the Royal Air Force for 22 years and have never heard noise quite like the constant whining of the Oxfordshire nimbys. You live near an airfield love; an airfield that is involved in operations that you'll thankfully never know about or likely appreciate. They're noisy locations - you might just have to deal with it.

NutLoose

26th Jul 2012, 17:13

* #37 (permalink)
Heathrow Harry
"Back in the 70s one of Lyneham's roles was JATFOR - the Joint Airborne Task Force - in which a the complete force was dropped in a single pass of (IIRC) 17 paratroop ac followed by 18 dropping stores and vehicles in a 3000 yard stream. "

ye Gods - were they planning to do another Arnhem??????

I remember late 80's at Brize about 5 am on a crisp clear skied sunrise morning when about 15 plus passed overhead in line abreast... It was a fantastic sight to see..

These days they could probably drop the lot out of three.

diginagain

26th Jul 2012, 17:46

when about 15 plus passed overhead in line abreast... Nothing quite like spreading the lurve........

Motleycallsign

26th Jul 2012, 18:18

What's the difference between a Herc and a NIMBY?

A Herc stops whining when you shut the engines down..............................

OK coat - hat I know the drill!

VinRouge

26th Jul 2012, 19:08

Perhaps the sqns could save up and chip in for the local community.

:E Shopping (http://www.urbandictionary.com/products.php?term=Wipe%20Your%20Minge&defid=2382076)

November4

26th Oct 2012, 08:47

Would seem that the locals might have something to moan about after all...

RAF Brize Norton Hercules noise 'exceeds MoD guidelines' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-19799280)

The Hercules aircraft fleet at RAF Brize Norton has broken official Ministry of Defence guidelines on noise, according to a report.

The number of complaints about the Oxfordshire base increased from 23 to 958 after the fleet moved there last year.

The MoD said it was actively working to reduce the effects of noise.

Thirty three Hercules have been based at Brize Norton since 6 July 2011 after RAF Lyneham in Wiltshire closed.

Air Commodore Jon Ager said: "The results show that, prior to any mitigation, the measured noise in some local villages exceeds the MoD guideline levels."

He said the MoD had apologised to residents and was working with them to improve the situation.
'Almost a roar'

Engine ground runs will now only be conducted when "deemed to be essential to current military operations" and, when possible, aircraft would be towed to areas from where noise had "less of an impact".

Permanent noise monitoring stations are being installed and the MoD is investigating the possibility of building indoor testing facilities to enclose the noise.

West Oxfordshire District councillor Mark Booty said: "I think it was a mistake by the RAF when they first did their planning in that they didn't actually plan for ground running noise.

"They did take off and landing noise, but not ground running.

"It's really irritating. Where I am [3.5 miles away] it's a hum and when you get into Black Bourton it's almost a roar.

"But to be honest, since the report was commissioned they are taking steps.

"They've started towing these aircraft around the base and facing them in different directions.

"We recognise the importance of all the good work they are doing in relation to transport to Afghanistan.

"We absolutely welcome the report, but I don't think there is this magic bullet."

Basil

26th Oct 2012, 08:55

I once complained about Herc noise - but the Loady couldn't hear me ;)

A2QFI

26th Oct 2012, 10:47

"Fool" at Wittering got a 6 figure sum in compensation and (SFAIK) hasn't had to repay any of it now that noisy flying has ceased there.

Gaz ED

26th Oct 2012, 11:52

To be fair to the c*nts, a ground running Herc does make a rather odd noise, when combined with wind direction and strength variation. I used to work on the buggers and would regularly curse the sumpies for running at night, when I was trying to sleep off the obligatory split shift urine-up down the Bowl and Mallard and DiDas'!

Flap62

26th Oct 2012, 13:29

The Hercules aircraft fleet at RAF Brize Norton has broken official Ministry of Defence guidelines on noise, according to a report.

And so we have had nearly 3 pages of "shut up you civvie muppets", when, they actually had a case after all after the integration of Herc was poorly planned and executed.

Hmmm. Apologies anyone, nah, didn't think so.

Living near an airfield does not mean that residents should have to put up with anything. The attitude of - well we were here first - will do nothing other than erode the good will which the military is going to need in the difficult few years ahead. There is a certain arrogance from some people that does the services no credit. Yes, operations involve a certain amount of noise but a manageable solution has to be found. The problem has got better since aircraft are being moved to different locations for ground runs. Was this not thought of before or was there an attitude of, well, towing will take 10 minutes so bugger them, let's do it here and it says low to medium power but bugger them let's do it at full power.

There have been examples here where stupid nimbys have made ridiculous complaints. That is rather different from previously good neighbours making legitimate complaints as a result of poorly thought out operational practices.

DX Wombat

26th Oct 2012, 13:42

Flap, calm down a little and think. The remarks are not being made to the complainants faces. They are simply feelings about a situation being aired in a place where it is safe to do so, such things are allowed and where the vast majority of posters are from the Military. By no means are all the posts of a derogatory nature, there are several which aren't. If anyone else wishes to read the remarks then they can do so but they should remember that everyone needs a safety valve from time to time and this can be the place for it.

salad-dodger

26th Oct 2012, 14:36

salad-dodger

26th Oct 2012, 14:40

The Hercules aircraft fleet at RAF Brize Norton has broken official Ministry of Defence guidelines on noise, according to a report.
One would hope that work is well underway to get the guidelines changed!

Another option would be to detach a squadron of Typhoons to BZN for a month or so. Round the clock exercise flying. It would seem so quiet afterwards. It's all relative!

Miserable NIMBY's buying houses next to an airfield.

S-D

Shack37

26th Oct 2012, 15:26

Ahh, how sweet, how, very, quaint!

One would hope that work is well underway to get the guidelines
changed!
Another option would be to detach a squadron of Typhoons to BZN for
a month or so. Round the clock exercise flying. It would seem so quiet
afterwards. It's all relative!
Miserable NIMBY's buying houses next to an
airfield.

Nice one fat guy, once again you've demonstrated the intellect of your declared age:yuk:

Shack37

26th Oct 2012, 15:40

Noise complaints - Hercules . . . From the
INSIDE or the OUTSIDE http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif

Not just the noise. Once returned from a Shack Malta detachment by Hercair still wearing KD. The other cargo consisted of petrol driven generators so heating was not allowed in the passenger area where we enjoyed the luxury of para seats. To avoid hypothermia the captain invited groups of four pax to the flight deck for a smoke and defrost.
After a couple of hours airborne out of Luqa I counted 14 on the flight deck including the non smokers.
Noise was not an issue on that trip!

Arty Fufkin

26th Oct 2012, 15:46

I take it the A400 is noisier than a herk.

BEagle

26th Oct 2012, 15:59

I take it the A400 is noisier than a herk.

Nope - neither inside nor outside.

A2QFI

26th Oct 2012, 16:18

Guidelines are advisory and have no standing in a legal system. Changing them won't stop them being ignored.

Arty Fufkin

26th Oct 2012, 17:19

Thanks beagle. Is that data openly available?

brokenlink

26th Oct 2012, 19:46

Dengue_Dude

26th Oct 2012, 20:26

One really couldn't give a ****. 10 years on Hercules means I don't have to buy an expensive stereo . . .

Just think what all those NIMBYs could save.

I'm not 12, my wife reckons it's closer to 5 - works for me :E

Onceapilot

26th Oct 2012, 20:33

Intro of the Tornado at Bruggen. Quote staish to worried populace "Of course the new Tornado is quieter than the Jaguar"....

salad-dodger

26th Oct 2012, 21:30

Well done Shack, you connected the name with perhaps being overweight and spotted the age too. New monocle? You followed up with more of your usual boring old drivel. Shack's blah blah blah, Malta blah blah blah, hypothermia blah blah blah.

Absolutely fascinating.

S-D

Shack37

26th Oct 2012, 21:43

DX Wombat

26th Oct 2012, 22:28

Absolutely fascinating.

Small things amuse small minds. Here's something to occupy yours, probably for quite a long time. There are more advanced tomes available for when you grow up.

http://www.booksandinkbookshop.com/shop_image/product/101576.jpg

Basil

26th Oct 2012, 22:41

Flap62,
Suppose it's living adjacent to a railway line; you can't really complain about the noise of trains, can you?
I live in a usually quiet house (when the kids and their offspring aren't visiting) with just a little aviation noise when LHR is landing easterly.
From time to time I sleep in houses next to main roads and I notice the increased noise; the permanent occupants do not. They have chosen to live there and have become inured to the noise so why not those who buy a house close to an airfield?

Lushington

26th Oct 2012, 22:49

Is that data openly available?

The A400M has a similar noise level to the Hercules.

See page three of this report from Air Commodore J Ager.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafbrizenorton/rafcms/mediafiles/169E269C_5056_A318_A8A9EDB1E9397E22.pdf

Flap62

26th Oct 2012, 22:59

If I lived next to a railway line and the operating company introduced a new piece of rolling stock that made considerably more noise and tested it outside my house in the middle of the night then, yes, I would be annoyed and complain.

It is not the noise from the airfield per se that the residents are complainng about. It is the change in noise caused by poorly thought out integration and a certain level of thoughtlessness by some LYN personel that is causing the problem.

BEagle

26th Oct 2012, 23:11

If I lived next to a railway line and the operating company introduced a new piece of rolling stock that made considerably more noise....

When the bona jets at Wildenrath were due to be replaced by the mighty F4, the local Kraut mayor wrote to his oppo in Holland, suggesting that they should write a combined letter of complaint to the RAF.....

The reply from the Cloggy mate was along the lines of "Yes, we know the Phantom is noisier than the Harrier. But we prefer the sound of either to the sound of the Stuka. Now, f*** off, Fritz!"......

:D

salad-dodger

26th Oct 2012, 23:38

ooooh, I'm being bullied help. Like being savaged by a limp wet lettuce leaf.

The Shack 37 and DX Wombat double act. Doesn't that conjure up some weird images? :yuk:

salad-dodger

26th Oct 2012, 23:43

so why not those who buy a house close to an airfield?
probably because the people who complain, like to complain. We all know the sort.

I lived in St Ives for many years and the noises from Wyton and Alconbury never kept me awake. Yes you could hear USAF Herc noise from Alconbury when the wind was right.

All sorts of complaints when 51 moved to Waddo. The locals had become used to the Sentry - relatively quiet. They had forgotten what had been there previously. Many had bought houses next to a military airbase. It gets noisy.

S_D

Basil

27th Oct 2012, 09:16

Wyton - takes me back. When working there we lived off station and I remember the sound of the Victors emanating from the fireplace in our double-glazed house.

NutLoose

27th Oct 2012, 14:22

Shack37

27th Oct 2012, 22:21

Like being savaged by a limp wet lettuce leaf.

Do you really? Still, no accounting for taste at your early stage. Try not to worry, there's still time to develop.:rolleyes:

glad rag

27th Oct 2012, 22:37

Hmmmm Elvington has just been hit with it.

Ah well, just sell up and pass the land over to the travelling community, see how the nimbys and their elected representatives cope with that then....

Ken Scott

30th Oct 2012, 17:59

and a certain level of thoughtlessness by some LYN personel that is causing the problem.

flap62 - what precisely do you mean by that little gem of a comment?

XV410

30th Oct 2012, 19:10

Early '90s, Saturday night/sunday morning F4 engine cx to be ready for airtest on the Sunday. Clearance for full engine ground runs at any time from the Staish :) One phone call to ATC so they could turn the lights on the running pan and off we went for some fun :E Engine started at 00:20 Sunday morning and full afterburner lit at 00:35, engine shut down at 00:45. Don't get many chances to wake everybody up and got about 40-50 complaints into Eng Ops. All wrapped up by 04:00 after a further idle run in the HAS at 02:00. Jet Noise the Sound of Freedom.

Flap62

30th Oct 2012, 20:55

Ken S,

It is perhaps comments like this

My last Ground Run in the RAF I did a VIP during God Slot and because it was on a Royal I had permission to do a low power run.... I had them up at full chat

from earlier in the thread which might suggest some personnel have a slightly cavalier attitude to noise.

Also the fact that the problem has, to some extent, been mitigated by moving the aircraft round to different locations for ground runs would suggest that there had been a lack of thought given to the potential noise impact that a relatively easy measure (bit of extra towing) was able to address.

NutLoose

30th Oct 2012, 21:30

Flap, there was no ground running moratorium during that period other than the Staishes due to him being at Church, it was nothing to do with upsetting the locals as the bans to not upset them were not involved, we used to do parallel starts after the ground running ban periods came into effect at night and would only start up with a departing jet to do any runs and shut down after it left, and only then if it was a serious operational urgency,
BUT it comes back to the old adage, do NOT buy a house adjacent to an Airfield and expect it not to be noisy, it should be law that you should sign a disclaimer accepting it will be noisy when you buy it... If you do not like it then tough, Brize has been there since 1937, most of the locals haven't, house prices reflect the noise and they need to accept it of move elsewhere.
I Live within a mile of a current major regional airport I work at and I except the noise and hey guess what, it's the major freight airport in the UK and is open 24/ 7 it does MORE movements at night than during the day..... Do I bitch about the noise? NO, I knew it was there when I bought Nutloose Manor.. And these turkeys should too.

nivsy

31st Oct 2012, 12:38

Brize may have been around from the 30's but the C130 operated from Lyneham and it was a government decision to madly close that field and transfer ops to Brize. Did the government consult with the locals?

If it was as easy as Nutloose suggests then Heathrow would currently have four runways never mind three on the wishlist and further "township cleansing" underway!:ugh:

The Full Monty

31st Oct 2012, 21:37

From the other side of the world...

In the mid 80's I was a QFI at 1FTS at RAAF Point Cook, and a whole lot of land between the base and the Princess Highway was released by Government to developers for housing.

When the first open day (a Saturday) was approaching for people to come and buy a block of land, the developer came spoke to the Air Commodore, asking that the "planes stay away" so not to deter people from buying.

The developer had obviously not done his homework. This was the military, we did not operate on the weekends, and stand down was from about 1530 on Fridays!

Anyway, the Air Commodore was a bit of a stategic thinker and could see the issues ahead. So, he ordered a full working weekend and as it so happened, one pilot course was in the middle of doing their circuit training leading up to first solo's and the course ahead was due for night circuit training.

I can't really remember how many CT-4's we used to have on line - say it was 25; well every one of them flew 3 or 4 sorties per day over that weekend, as did all of the staff.

It made the local paper - I remember the headline "RAAF 1, LANDCOM 0".

I seem to recall that the developement did not really "take off" until the based closed to regulary military operations about 7 years later.

Slight thread drift...

gopher01

1st Nov 2012, 10:06

The comments by residents about aircraft noise are not new. The Hercules OCU at Thorney Island used to go on detachment for a fortnight during each course so we did not disturb the myriad retired navy high ups who had retired to the area, this was in 1968! Mind you a holiday in Malta was quite welcome in the winter. My next posting to Akrotiri didn't quite produce the same level of complaints despite the presence of Lightnings, Canberras, Vulcans and that was just the resident fast jets.
A return to the subject airfield of Brize in 1971 on Brittannias had some of the same problems mentioned now but doing ground runs out of hours was generally masked by doing them during aircraft departures. However the locals at that time seemed to realise that if you had a military base near you it was liable to be a bit noisy at times. If there was a particulary vocal complainer the Staish used to invite them to his residence with the timing arranged for a VC 10 departure in a westerley direction. This would normally result in a rotation just about opposite his residence and he would then remark that you think its noisy where you live! It often seemed to work.
A stint at LYN followed and living in the village was a peaceful existence, a lovely noise a Herc makes. And beleive you me follow that up with three years on Tornados and then you really know what noise is like! Follow that up with the Bulldogs and Chippies at Abingdon and even my daughter (aged three ) used to say "aren't these aeroplanes quiet dad".
Then to finish off my time back on the Hercs at Lyneham and find that people still complained about aircraft noise after they moved into the area was rather suprising. One guy comes to memory as, after moving into Tockenham village right under the flight path, he used to phone up to get complaints registered as he was trying to get his rates reduced. I believe that the rating officer on the council wasn't too sympathetic as he lived in Bradenstoke!
That there is some justification for complaints can be felt when you realise that in my days on the Brits if you were doing a prop governor check,(a certain power setting and drop the prop into fine pitch to produce an overspeed with the prop bouncing off the govenor) you could, depending on wind direction and speed be heard in Witney. This was often confirmed by the following shift commenting on your ground runs when they came in to work.
It certainly does seem though that nowadays people are only to ready to complain about things that are of minimal intrusion to their lives. maybe I'm just a throwback to the days when you put up with a lot more.

LFFC

4th Nov 2012, 18:57

RAF issues another apology over engine noise (http://www.witneygazette.co.uk/news/10024815._/) - Witney Gazette 3 Nov 12

The RAF has sent out a letter explaining changes that are being made to try to minimise noise.

It says “significant operating constraints” on the location and time of testing had been implemented but said the success of these measures had been shortlived.

Air Commodore Jon Ager said: “This transient reduction may have been due to improved aircraft serviceability, summer holidays or the fact that we had exported training to other parts of the country.

“Nevertheless, the improvement that we thought we had achieved has not been sustained, and I apologise for that.

He added: “I and my team are working hard to reduce the environmental impact from C130 Hercules ground running. We remain committed to being a good neighbour and to working with the local community on environmental issues.”

The base has now brought in more staff and equipment to move the planes to areas of the base that minimise noise impact on residents and testing has been banned near the boundary fence close to Black Bourton.

The RAF is investigating how weather affects noise problems and is considering the idea of building enclosed engine testing facilities

Wouldn't it be cheaper just to reopen Lyneham? It would be interesting to know just what savings have been made by closeing it in the first place! I wonder when the residents of Carterton and Black Bourton will get a reduction in their council tax due to the excessive noise?

ukcds

4th Nov 2012, 19:12

"The base has now brought in more staff and equipment to move the planes to areas of the base that minimise noise impact on residents"
Really? I heard (and of course it's only a romour) that a number of sorties have been cancelled due to the back log of engine runs required.

Sook

5th Nov 2012, 11:43

Slight thread creep but the major downer in disposing of Watton is that nobody considered the VGS on site, currently several hundred cadets in East Anglia have no where to glide from (other VGS full up it appears) until a new home is found and the move paid for.

The VGS at Henlow and Wethersfield are still operating and the VGS at Watton have moved to Honnington and are converting to Vigilants.

Blue Bottle

13th Nov 2012, 11:19

BBC News - RAF Brize Norton spends £1.6m on cutting aircraft noise (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-20308834)

1.6 Million spent at Brize, good to know the money was available..

oldmansquipper

13th Nov 2012, 11:52

BB

Surely the money will have been pre-allocated during the Investment Analysis phase for closing Lyneham... Probably at the same time as the adequacy of maintenance accommodation, facilities and housing were confirmed.

Its not as if they were long term hidden costs .... ignored for short term expediency, eh? :ouch:

Blue Bottle

13th Nov 2012, 11:57

OMS - Yep your right, I am sure the money would have been allocated to something...:ok:

downsizer

13th Nov 2012, 12:30

And the operational effect has been? Obviously more servicable frames.... Oh, right....:ooh:

Sonorguy

13th Nov 2012, 13:34

Hmmmm Elvington has just been hit with it.

Airfield bosses fined over noise (From York Press) (http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/10008369.Airfield_bosses_fined_over_noise/)

I used to live in one of the none double glazed, none soundproofed blocks at Brize for 5 years and my end room faced onto the runway...... People can't understand how I sleep today through the sound of the neighbours cat farting at 50 yards when they get up in arms about the most unobtrusive of noise.

Although that has nothing to do with aircraft noise, it's the drag racing that they do on the runway that's caused the aggro. The locals aren't bothered when the Nimrod/Victor get their occasional fire-ups.