Shameful - please give your support

[snaggletooth]

Not aircrew, but worthy of our help and support methinks.

Stop Bale being deported after 13 years serving British Armed Forces Petition (http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stop-bale-being-deported-after-13-years-serving-british.html)

Isimeli Baleiwai known as 'Bale' to his friends is facing deportation from the UK after serving 13 years with the British Armed Forces. Bale is a foreign and commonwealth soldier from Fiji who was recruited by the MOD when he was 18.

He has served in 5 operational tours including Northern Ireland, Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan. His wife Kim is British and they have two young children a boy of 3 and a girl of 6; both British. Bale voluntarily discharged from the Armed Forces on June 15th 2012 in order to provide stability for his family.

He applied for British Citizenship in March while still a serving soldier. This was advised to him by MOD personnel because he had served 13 years and had a British wife and children. This was refused on 28/06/2012 by UKBA, Bale sent an 'appeal for review' but recieved a letter from UKBA on 14/07/2012 stating he had until 9th August 2012 to leave the country.

Under changes made to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1973 (ROA) in 2010 disciplinary offences dealt with at the Commanding Officer's discretion can now be equated to a criminal conviction.

Bale was fined in 2011 by his Commanding Officer for fighting with another soldier who instigated the fight. There was no police involvement, no trial, no defence and nor was it impartial. Bale did not know he was being charged with a criminal conviction. He believed this was an 'in-house' disciplinary offence only. He has no criminal record, this offence is only on his military record. There was no court martial. He has now appealed the conviction.

Under the changes made to ROA in 2010 Bale is now defined as a criminal by the Home Office and of not good character to become a British citizen or apply for indefinite leave to remain.

This is devastating for him and his family. It is a breach of Article 6 of the Human Rights Act (1998) and Armed Forces Covenant (2011). It is also inherently racist because the changes made will have no impact on his British Armed Forces colleagues because these military offences are not held on a criminal record. This change only has implications to immigration Law and Policy. The family believe the law and policy is discriminative.

Please show your support for Bale and his family, their lives are in turmoil. Bale has been told he has until the 9th August 2012 to leave the Country.

The Home Office has been using this 'Law' to deport Foreign and Commonwealth soldiers who have been medically discharged as well. This is a disgrace and immoral!

Commonwealth soldier kicked in the teeth by Britain - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9417871/Commonwealth-soldier-kicked-in-the-teeth-by-Britain.html)

BBC News - Fijian-born soldier Isimeli Baleiwai fights to stay in UK (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18940236)

[pasir]

Without going into every aspect of this case and accepting that the basic facts given present a fair summing up of what does indeed seem to be
an injustice - In no way wishing to appear flippant and if all else fails then cannot the standard cry of 'Against his human rights' then not also be claimed - as used with great success by most of the UKs criminals
who were ordered to be deported after serving jail sentences but seems
will almost certainly remain in the UK - thanks to this loophole used by
many of the UKs undesireables - Hastening to add that it is an insult to this mans honour that he may need to lower himself to the use of this popular
criminals get out !

...

[BEagle]

Duly signed - as I hope this petition will be by thousands of others.

Perhaps his ex-CO, to whom reference is made in the Daily Telegraph's article, might be prevailed upon to intercede?

[NutLoose]

Done.





...

[Courtney Mil]

Done. It made the BBC Radio 4 News today as well, so good for the cause.

Time for an outrage!

[Ivor Fynn]

Done

Ivor Fynn

[BEagle]

That's 82 signatures in less than 20 minutes!

[thehighlander959]

5355 signatures at 12.27pm thats not to shabby. just to add that this case is absolutely scandalous. Loyalty to our Armed Forces?????

[PICKS135]

Signed.

Would rather 10 men like him remained in the UK than 1 criminal

[Wander00]

Needs a good Human Rights lawyer - right to enjoy Family Life

[parabellum]

Done, 5739 now.

[paully]

proud to add my name to this injustice. Anyone remember the Iraqi `refugee` in Lancashire who mowed down and killed a young child. Convicted of Death by Dangerous driving but allowed to stay because he had family here....Courts were adamant he must remain and we try to throw this Servant of the Crown out :ugh::ugh:

I cant make up my mind if the the uncivil servants responsible for this debacle are all left wing military hating nutters or just as thick as pig **** :rolleyes:.......usually one is synonymous with the other isnt it..

[Q-RTF-X]

There are occasions when I miss not being in the UK, but sadly such occasions seem to be increasingly few and far between, this is but one example of issues that make me more content where I am. Signed !!!

PS IMHO this is not a matter where the likes of the man's former OC should perhaps be called upon to intervene; oh no, it's time for the Chief of Defence Staff to make a very loud public statement in support of HIS MEN !

[Dengue_Dude]

I've signed because I think it's wrong.

However, I do find on things such as this there is great play made that 'This man has served his country' - I would point out that since we don't conscript anybody (more's the pity) that anyone out there 'serving' is actually a volunteer. We all were, for good or ill.

Plainly this IS wrong and he and others like him are owed an obligation far greater than that given to a criminal - because it's just plain JUSTICE, something we don't see much of in this country.

I feel similarly about the Gurkhas too, although when they joined, the norm was that they'd return to Nepal, I'd far rather they be here because they've already proved their loyalty, their standards and discipline and will work rather than sponge off the state.

[pasir]

Have also just signed up - But isnt it to our shame and typical of
our Govt to cave in to cancelling deporation orders served upon
convicted foreign criminals - while they will so callously sanction and approve deportation orders upon those that have served the UK with loyalty.

...

[longer ron]

Done :ok:
Best wishes to him from LR

[langleybaston]

Signed.

I cannot believe [can I?] that this sort of injustice occurs in the country that my father, and both grandfathers, fought for.

[OA64]

Done. .

[EngAl]

Done, 5996 now.

[rlsbutler]

Done - signature number 6031

[Jobza Guddun]

Signed and commented. Good luck fella. :ok:

[Captain Gadget]

What an injustice - privileged to sign on Bale's behalf. Let's have a few thousand more!

Gadget :ok:

[November4]

6209 and climbing rapidly

[Belle and Sebastian]

6270.............

[Shack37]

Signed but can't remember the number. Does this petition carry the same weight as a government E-Petition, ie if 100,000 signatures reached it must be debated in parliament?

[Dunky]

Signed, No. 6343.

[ragpacker]

Done #6348

[Gericault]

Done, 6379.

[Tankertrashnav]

Signed and forwarded to 300-odd ex RAF on my address lists - should swell the numbers a bit I hope.

[4mastacker]

Signed with appropriate comment.

[sitigeltfel]

Done 6718.

Since when has getting hauled up in front of headmaster after a playground spat been classed as a criminal offence? :ugh:

[ACW418]

Signed and commented.

ACW

[fallmonk]

Signed 6892,
If we can find space in this country for so many imigrants(and am not saying they dont need refuge) we can find space for man who has done so much for this country (not even his country !)

[pasir]

... latest update on L.Cpl Balli

The law firm that acted for the injustice to Ghurkas - Messrs Howe and Co
- have just announced they are willing to offer their services free of charge in taking this matter to court on behalf of former L/Cpl Balli -
(apologies for any mispelling) In addition the injustice is to be discussed on LBC radio tomorrow a.m.

...

[MG]

Number 6949

[Sand4Gold]

Done, and letter to my MP.

Interesting paragraph in one of today's tabloids that makes a mockery of this decision?

At least one terrorist, up to eight killers and rapists, 20 robbers and eight paedophiles were given permission to stay last year without a judge deciding their fate.

S4G

[Canadian Break]

Done. Just how many Outrage Buses does PRuNe possess - we need more that the usual singleton for this one!

[Bob Wyer]

Signed, 7449

Are we surprised by the actions of our so-called"betters" ?

Forgive them, they know no better, honour is a foreign word!!

[blaireau]

Over 9 now!

[zetec2]

Signed, Paul H.

[Trim Stab]

Signature 7649. Keep 'em comin!

As with many news articles about Fijians serving in the British Army note that his Regiment is not mentioned!

[chanter]

Duly signed.

Cannot believe how this country allows successive governments to shaft both the serving and the veterans. Fiji has a proud tradition with many of her lads serving the UK and making the ultimate sacrifice, Sergeant Talaiasi Labalaba being one heroic example.

Really does turn your gut

[airborne_artist]

Signature 7857

[Linedog]

Signed. Good luck to him and his family. :ok:

[pipistrelle]

Gladly signed, appropriate comments added. How can the idiots who say they are running this country allow a crowd of convicted rapists,murderers and terrorists freedom to stay in the uk so as not to infringe their human rights yet are trying to deport someone who put his life on the line for the uk.
Good luck Bale

[eastern wiseguy]

Signed...email to MP sent...shared on Facebook.

Absolutely appalling.

[pr00ne]

Don't normally 'do' petitions as they are usually nonsensical.

This however is different, very different!

Howe and Co should have absolutely no problem driving a coach and horses through this decision. Totally agree with their scale of fees too...

[Scott C]

Signed! Now on signature number 8735.

[Genstabler]

Signed.
If this brave and loyal soldier is refused British citizenship and deported, then I will support any revolution to ditch the barstewards who claim to govern us and to reestablish some old fashioned common sense, honour and decency.
Sorry! Makes me really angry.

[ChristianR354]

#8817 I think? Forgot to look closely. Petition signed anyway!

[Squirrel 41]

Signed. Good luck chap!

S41

[jp3492]

So I'm normally a lurker on PPRUNE, especially seeing as I'm ex-Army :-)

Apart from the obvious apathy from HM Guv'mint, what really makes my blood boil is the inaction of the 'British' Legion on the basis that he's not a 'British' enough, despite taking Betty's shilling and serving the crown.

Given the number of oiks and walters that populate the average Legion, [lus the cash that is raked in from subsidised beer, it begs the question as to their purpose? I thought the charter was to provide a voice, and represent the interests of, British forces veterans, and I assumed (wrongly) irrespective of their original contry of origin.

I live in the US and I actually have a blemish on my record, however, even the USCIS were humane enough to balance this against my service and good character over the long term. I'm ashamed to say it was considerably more serious that Bale's so called offence.

Disgusting.

[SOSL]

Signed - this makes my blood boil - Grrr

What about his wife and childrens' right to family life?

What about his honourable uniformed service to the UK, in several, pretty nasty places?

What about his honourable approach to civvy street (e.g. several offers of productive employment - actually doing stuff - not just freeloading).

What about a Home Secretary who seems to prefer the company of burglars, rapists, murderers and other unpleasant types to that of honest soldiers.

And if HMBA honestly think a CO's summary hearing comes anywhere near to a proper criminal court hearing - I give up.

What about proper representation for the accused? What about full disclosure of evidence? What about accuracy?

Grrr....Grrrr

Rgds SOS

[Echo 5]

Signed. Disgraceful behaviour again by HMG.

[Arkroyal]

Signed, now well over 9000.

News this morning that a backlog the size of the population of Newcastle awaits processing by the Home Office.

And I'll bet not one of them has a case as strong as Bale's for staying.

Appalling treatment by the Government. (And British Legion).

[CoffmanStarter]

Done @ 9159 ... I hope his former CO shows a bit of "metal" and stands by his man.

[Poss1Low]

Signed 9160...Absolutely disgusting treatment.

However, I believe he still has time to get a few shifts in down at the Olympic Park before his flight goes..

[Whenurhappy]

I stand by to be villified...but this story doesn't add up. As he is married to a British citizen, he would have ordinary right for residency (irrespective of a non-indictable offence). Moreover he meets the statutory period to apply to be naturalised. Did he take the tiem to explain his circumstances to the UKBA?

As a Commonwealth recruit I duly applied for Citizenship when it became apparent that without UK citizenship (in spite of being a British Subject) I would never get a DV or related specialist clearances. In spite of this, several years later a chiseller from Innsworth (as was) wrote to me in c 2003 advising me that I had three options because of my 'foreign' nationality:

1. Get naturalised (I was) and renounce my 'foreign' citizenship (I was already naturalised).
2. 'Remuster' to another trade (I was a Sqn Ldr at the time - in a Branch and not a trade).
3. Suffer 'the inevitiable consequences' to my career that a lack of adequate security clearances would bring (I already had the clearances).

This was brought about because of 'coalition information sharing concerns' ie the US discovered that not everyone in the UK Forces was necessarily British. The civil servant in question declined to respnd to telephone calls or emails; eventually a letter from a solicitor pointing out the tautology of the proposal ie to renounce my 'foreign' citizenship required me to renounce the Queen as Head of State.

When we eventually got a response, there was no appology and when pressed about the appalling staff work, he explained that there were over 450 cases and they couldn't invesitage all of the. Sure as eggs, if my case was to do with unfair dismissal due to gender or sexuality, it would have been staffed to the nth degree!

In sum, this chap has had 10 years to apply for citizenship and he is married to a local. Perhaps he was insuffciently eloquent in explaining his case?

[obnoxio f*ckwit]

Done as well, #9360.

[sled dog]

Signed, now 9000+

[Tableview]

Another one. Good cause.

[Pub User]

Signed, keep it going folks.

[L-H]

Back to the top. Signed!

[salad-dodger]

me too

what a state of affairs though, unbelievable!

S-D

[phantomstreaker]

Signed with pleasure...absolute disgrace:mad:

[SOSL]

Wuh. Good point, well presented - but:

Young Bale probably wasn't "eloquent enough" but, equally, he probably wasn't well advised; or even advised at all.

As a senior officer you would expect to fight your corner and win, because you would make sure you were well briefed and because you had the resourcefulness to challenge the bureaucracy. Well done.

The average L Cpl (or for the sake of relating to military aviation: the average SAC) doesn't have your firepower. The average L Cpl does what he's told, because that's how he's trained, even when it comes to (amateur) summary hearings.

As a senior RAF officer you must have seen how compliant junior ranks are when faced with the boss in an orderly room. Very few contest the evidence; very few deny the so called offence.

Oh boll...s I've suddenly run out of motivation. I'm going to lie down in a dark room

[salad-dodger]

when it comes to (amateur) summary hearings.

As a senior RAF officer you must have seen how compliant junior ranks are when faced with the boss in an orderly room. Very few contest the evidence; very few deny the so called offence.

"March in the guilty bastard" as the old saying goes.

S-D

[SOSL]

Well said S-D and keep on keeping out of the salad!!

Rgds SOS

[polyglory]

Duly signed over 11000 now

[Ringway Flyer]

11114. I'll put this about locally too... Could do with a celeb on board to get more publicity?

Copy also to LBC - son's GF well up in the editorial side.

RF.

[Avionker]

Signed, over 11,200 now. The fact that the punishment handed down in a military non-judicial disciplinary procedure is afforded the same weight as a civilian court conviction beggars belief. Which 'rocket scientist' thought that one up?

[essexlad]

Signed. Cant beleive the cheek of some people. Makes me sick to the backteeth of the corrupt b******ds that run this country

[taffyhammer]

signed post #8491, if he had been an illegal immigrant who jailed for killing a child by dangerous driving. he would have been allowed to stay as it would have contravened his human rights because he had a british born child@#@!!! The whole system sucks he is obviously an easy target for the border agency to meet its net immigration targets!!

[Goprdon]

I have signed the petition as has my wife.
However I would have preferred to have signed a petition aimed directly at the Government and The Border Agency. If I am allowed to post this, this website indicates how it can be done. Usual preamble required: epetitions.direct.gov.uk/how-it-works/
As we have got so far with the petition it may be too late to change.

Where can you find a journo when you need one ?

[Geehovah]

In!.....................

[Bill Macgillivray]

Done, 12,081. We need more!! :sad::sad::sad:

[Q-RTF-X]

Where can you find a journo when you need one ?

I understand this but I stand by something I alluded to in an earlier post. Is there any intervention here from any top echelon senior officer and if not, why not ? In this day and age of dwindling morale IMHO there needs be a lot more overt support of "the troops". There is a need for a VSO to be foaming at the mouth and kicking down doors in Whitehall over this ?

[AGS Man]

Signed, #12700. What a load of ballcocks! One wonders what the outcome would be if he had served 13 years with the UKBA!

[Fly3]

Done 12761 now.

[BEagle]

By my reckoning, that's 3670 signatures in 24 hours.

More needed - this appalling decision MUST be reversed!!

[goofer3]

Now #13010

[seafuryfan]

Now 15133.

[Rotor Buddy]

As a long-term watcher and part-time contributor I feel that I have to jump in and have my 2 pence worth. I am quite appalled at the treatment of this chap who has faithfully served the UK for so long.

I am a dodgy foreigner myself (commonwealth) who joined the RAF in 1999. The Brit embassy who recruited me said that I would be issued with a passport when I arrived. I remained an illiegal immigrant (whilst holding the Queen's commission) for the next 3 years and was even sent out of the country to hold while they sorted it out! Needless to say nothing was done and I continued to rely on NATO travel orders to see me through border crossings.

During a tour in NI an Army major thought this was the most proposterous (yes he did use that word) thing he had ever heard and asked my permission to write to his MP. 3 letters later and I was invited to apply for naturalisation. The passport was then a mere formality.

My point is that there are precedents there to use in your battle with the great unwashed. My feelings are that there will be too much negative publicity and they will roll over in the end...they always do!:ok:

[Whenurhappy]

I agree that the average officer is probably more eloquent in defending his or her position own dealing with other Government Departments and I can't help but feel that the Army and Bale's CoC should have intervened earlier to assist this LCpl, before this became a Daily Heil/Daily Mailygraph political points-scoring matter.

I understand, too, that this isn't the first time the Bale family have invited the press to deal with Army complaints. I believe Mrs Bale called the press in to complain about the condition of quarters several years ago. I'm sure that was helpful.

Again, I get this niggly feeling that this story does't add up (in my case, naturalisation was a very straight-forward process and the RAF paid the fee).

[fantom]

Needs a good Human Rights lawyer - right to enjoy Family Life


How many times have we heard of Somali/Iraqi/Afghan (delete as reqd) being granted leave to stay because of the right to a family life? Bluddy insane.

Bastardos.

[Avionker]

The point, as far as I can tell is this, he has been refused leave to remain in the country by the UKBA because he was charged and fined for a disciplinary offence last year. After the 2010 amendment to the Rehabilitation of Offenders act (1974) all convictions, whether spent or not, can be taken into account by the UKBA. Prior to this amendment there were no exceptions, once a conviction was spent, it was spent. So if his offence took place last year or 12 years ago it would still be considered as a criminal conviction by the UKBA.


The real injustice as far as I am concerned is that all punishments awarded under military discipline which lead to a fine or detention are regarded as convictions. A civilian has to be taken to court, tried and found guilty to receive a conviction. During this process they are entitled to professional legal representation.

A member of HM Forces can be charged, the offence heard by and disposed of by their Commanding officer, with no right to legal representation. This means any serviceman or woman who leaves the Forces and has been charged and fined in the 12 months prior to leaving must declare the conviction when applying for a job. How many people know that? And in fact prior to 1st May this year, the rehabilitation period for a conviction leading to a fine was actually 5 years.

I am willing to accept that offences dealt with by a Court Martial should be regarded with the same weight as a Civilian court conviction but a simple charge? Heard by any old commissioned officer without specialist legal training or experience? That is ludicrous.


http://www.ilpa.org.uk/data/resources/14246/12.02-Rehabilitation-of-Offenders-Act-1974.pdf

[fantom]

The point, as far as I can tell is this, he has been refused leave to remain in the country by the UKBA because he was charged and fined for a disciplinary offence last year.

Exacramento. I remember reading of a person from another land - having run down and killed a young girl - being allowed the right to stay.

What are we doing here?

[blaireau]

Doubtless if he was a Salafist, his right to remain would be beyond doubt!

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

Done. This man has done his bit for Quuen and Country.

Lets get rid of the dross.

Aaron.

[BEagle]

In the last 24 hours, another 4268 signatures have been added, 16% more than in the previous 24 hours!

Keep signing and asking others to do the same!

[Whenurhappy]

Just to clarify, Courts Martial are no longer heard 'by any old officer'. The procedure has been massively overhauled; the Judge Advocate is the chap (or chapette) with the power and the authority. Furthermore CMs are now conducted at regional centres to ensure that they are run iaw the RP and Officers and Warrant Officers are effectively the jury.

However, Bale received summary justice which - in the circumstances described - is also lawful. This wasn't a 'behind the Drill Shed' shoeing - if so, he would have grounds to appeal the judgement, and he has not.

If ex-LCpl Bale had been in a fight with a civilian or once he had left as a civilian, the matter would have been dealt with by a Magistrate and he may have had a conviction, resulting in the same UKBA outcome. Just because he did 12 years in uniform is, unfortunately, irrelevant. Moreover he has had 7 years to apply to be naturalised.

Moreover, the right to remain through marriage is not explored - is this no longer a valid reason?

[Avionker]

May I suggest you re-read what I wrote? I said that I accepted that a conviction by a CM should carry the same weight as a Civilian court. A simple charge should not however, as they are not conducted by the Judge Advocate, there is no jury and there is no legal representation.

[Shack37]

He was not Court Martialled, it was the usual run of the mill kangaroo court before his CO, could even have been as low as his Company Cdr. He therefore had no representation and was not aware that several of his comrades had offered to appear as witnesses to testify that he was defending himself. They were not allowed to do so.


Bale was fined in 2011 by his Commanding Officer for fighting with another soldier who instigated the fight. There was no police involvement, no trial, no defence and nor was it impartial. Bale did not know he was being charged with a criminal conviction. He believed this was an 'in-house' disciplinary offence only. He has no criminal record, this offence is only on his military record. There was no court martial. He has now appealed the conviction.

[teeteringhead]

Apologies for being late on parade :(

But now signature # 17683!! :D

[grizz]

Duly signed

This from a contact:

the official line is

"I can not comment specifically on individual cases but I am informed
by the Home Office team that the UK Border Agency considers
applications for settlement from former Her Majesty’s Forces personnel
in the same way as all other applications for settlement. This
involves consideration of a range of factors including unspent
convictions, whether passed by military courts or resulting from
police involvement."

[Out Of Trim]

Duly signed. Now 18,255 signatures! :ok:

I'm so sickened at how former and serving serviceman are treated by our incompetent self serving Governments of recent times. They appear to be nothing but traitors;and if I had my way the Tower of London would be full of these inadequate politicians. :mad: Off with their heads..

[Levelling_the_Land]

This from my MP:

" Thank you for your email regarding Lance Corporal Bale Baleiwai. I appreciate your concern on this issue.

I entirely support the campaign and understand that Ministers are looking at the matter.

Thank you for taking the trouble to contact me about this important issue.

With best wishes,"


Try writing to your MP via


WriteToThem - Email or fax your Councillor, MP, MEP, MSP or Welsh, NI, London Assembly Member for free (http://www.writetothem.com/)


You can search for your MP there, and send them a message. That's how I contacted mine yesterday, and she replied to me with the above today.

[Avionker]

And at the phrase that I have emphasised in red is the sticking point.

"I can not comment specifically on individual cases but I am informed
by the Home Office team that the UK Border Agency considers
applications for settlement from former Her Majesty’s Forces personnel
in the same way as all other applications for settlement. This
involves consideration of a range of factors including unspent
convictions, whether passed by military courts or resulting from
police involvement."

Do the UKBA appreciate the difference between a military court and the summary justice which arises from a charge heard solely by one, sometimes very junior, officer?

[Lewis deLow]

Now 18656. These clowns know where he lives but have no idea what he's done for them.

[BEagle]

That's another 2015 signatures in the past 24 hrs - the total should reach over 20000 today!

[Whenurhappy]

I repeat the point I made above - there was nothing unlawful about the summary justice awarded to Bale by his CO. Such justice is enabled by Act of Parliament (AFA 2006). If, however, he has grounds to appeal, why hasn't he? (failure to follow procedure, new evidence coming to light etc).

[Wingswinger]

Number 19051 on parade.

[Shack37]

I repeat the point I made above - there was nothing unlawful about the summary justice awarded to Bale by his CO. Such justice is enabled by Act of Parliament (AFA 2006). If, however, he has grounds to appeal, why hasn't he? (failure to follow procedure, new evidence coming to light etc).


I don't think anyone is saying it was unlawful but to equate this type of justice with a civilian court or a military court martial for the purpose of denying Bale's request is unfair. Letter of the law it may be but not the spirit (my opinion only). Less chapter and verse please and a touch more humanity.

[Avionker]

Shack37 sums it up perfectly. In my opinion it is not a level playing field at the moment, it is in fact biased against service personnel. It is far easier for them to be convicted than their civilian counterparts, in the process acquiring a criminal record. This applies to all members of Her Majesty's Forces regardless of what passport they hold.

If whenurhappy thinks that this is a reasonable and equitable state of affairs then so be it, but I believe that he will be in a minority.

[pasir]

... In addition to the injustice military personnel are at danger of in
acquiring a Criminal Record to follow and ruin them for life for the heinous crime of defending oneself in a 60 seconds bout instigated by the other person - That this ex L/Cpl during any active service was at risk of being repatriated minus limbs - disfigured for life or returned in a wooden overcoat appears to count for nothing by this ungrateful Government !

...

[LongTimeInCX]

A spineless and disgraceful lack of loyalty shown by those in power who are only to quick to send them into combat.
They should be ashamed of their treatment of this young lad.
Duly signed
Up to 19,500.

[FAStoat]

Frankly I despair!!I am now 19496.The complete cockup with the EASA Rules on trying to retain an UK ATPL or JAR Licence,having spent more than 7 years flying abroad adds to my disgust at the outrageous treatment of this Ex Seviceman.What is going on in this Extraordinary Quasi Police State for a Country,that is meant to be democratic and not a Republic??Illegals and Terrorists are allowed in if they have family or children,as it is their Human Rights,but what about this man and his English Wife???.We need a NEW ENGLISH BILL OF RIGHTS.I state English not British as it appears possible that Scotland and then maybe Wales will leave the Union.I have ceased to Vote since Cameron and his bunch of fools,insist on dealing with 3rd World issues instead of sorting out this Pleasant and green Land of ours-England!!!!and Milliballs and his band of idiots would be even worse,so what else is out there ??

[Burt007]

Signed.......number 19508

[ricardian]

A judge has ordered (http://www.veterans-aid.net/british-soldier-deportation-appeal-granted-latest/) that his original conviction can now be re-heard in a proper court of law with witnesses called.

[500N]

Done.

"Under the changes made to ROA in 2010 Bale is now defined as a criminal by the Home Office and of not good character to become a British citizen or apply for indefinite leave to remain. "

So he is not good enough to stay in the UK but he's good enough to serve in the British Army, fight it's wars and protect it from Terrorism - both overseas and on home soil if need be ?

If he was still serving, he would be suitable to provide security at the Olympics but because he's out .......... you know where this is going.

The mind boggles at the stupidity.

[Chugalug2]

Well hopefully the JAG solution will work to enable the naturalisation to go ahead. It is however a right royal fudge, as summary hearings before a CO are not the equivalent of a civilian conviction. That is the province of a CM. The offences that can be dealt with summarily often do not give the accused that option anyway. Their purpose is to maintain military discipline and so are quick and decisive, not designed to be dug up years later by civil servants for unrelated purposes.
This case highlights the total disconnection that many civilians now have vis a vis the UK Military. They don't know anyone in it, don't know anything about it, but what they do know, or think they know, is that they don't really like it. Only that way of thinking can justify the UKBA stance that service in the UK Military has NO bearing on deciding if such applications be successful!
This case is eerily reminiscent of that of Mr Pun VC. It may be recalled that when he was trying to obtain right of abode, he was asked by the Immigration Minister, "So, VC, what does that stand for then?"
Time to stop messing around and turn Joanna Lumley loose again!

[Danny42C]

Done. (20131)

[BEagle]

1255 signatures in the last 24 hours! Rate of signing is dropping off, please publicise the petition as widely as possible.

Good to read that Bale will be able to appear in front of a proper court rather than some kangaroo court orderly room nonsense. Hopefully details of the date/location will be forthcoming and the press informed?

[Whenurhappy]

Beagle - let's hope the JAG leave to appeal doesn't come up with the same decision as the Summary proceedings - which, unless RP were breached - is a properly constituted body. There has been a lot of heresay about the original findings - such as 'there were six colleagues ready to give evidence to his defence' (why didn't they?); ' he didn't break the jaw', 'it was a kangaroo court' &c.

Although the guidance to UKBA has changed - slightly - what I cannot determine (and bearing in mind I went through the same process a few years ago which required me to reveal any military convictions, including summary punishments) is why didn't he apply for citizenship whilst serving and why his marriage to a UK national (with his children being dependent UK nationals) doesn't give him automatic right to abode, as it seems to do for everyone else in similar situations?

Oh, and a minor point to the poor reporting by the Telegraph, Fiji ain't in the Commonwealth at the moment; its membership is suspended.

[tucumseh]

CDS should be working balls out on this one with Ministers and the Attorney General, because it exposes one the great contradictions Commanding Officers face when disciplining combat troops. To paraphrase a report to Secy of State for Defence in 2001;


Whether he consciously thought of this or not, when fining both soldiers the CO was upholding the concept of the peer group, leadership, morale and esprit de corps that are important factors in encouraging participation in battle. From that viewpoint, he can justify fining both when the evidence suggests one was defending himself.


Conversely, discipline and “good drill” are not good indicators of who will actually participate in battle. There are many examples of men who, in training, are lazy, unruly and disorderly, but are magnificent fighters on the battlefield.

This has got to be sorted out, and internal disciplinary measures (that, in my own opinion, result in the soldier being allowed to remain serving) should be omitted from the record, in the same way the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act doesn’t require you to declare a minor conviction once “time served”. If it isn’t sorted out, the effect will be far reaching.

[Arfur Dent]

20,297 duly signed. Good luck!

[Pontius Navigator]

Rate of signing is dropping off, please publicise the petition as widely as possible.

Running on Arrse too I guess?

[Whenurhappy]

I hope it is sorted out and Bale gets either 'leave to remain' or commences the long (and quite pricey) road to citizenship. However, it's not the MOD's battle, as the Department doesn't make the rules. Yes, they can make representations, but ultimately the ball resides with UKBA and Home Office. It would be akin to the MOD pressing the CPS to drop charges against an ex-SP or worse, having another Government Department insisting that TTPs on the battlefield are changed to suit their (ex) personnel.

However, because of the inevitiable bad PR that will cascade down on the MOD (through, arguably no fault of their own), the Defence Ministerial team should be pressing the UKBA - at ministerial level - to change the guidance to case officers and seek to incorporate the right to abode within the Military Covenant.

[oldpusser]

SignedAnd this would be the same UKBA who managed its workforce so badly they threatened to go on strike before the Olympics - they are a disgrace

[Avionker]

whenurhappy

Unless I am missing something this document appears to state that only on discharge, after 4 years service, can an application be made for Indefinite Leave to Remain.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/IDIs/idischapter15/section1/section1.pdf?view=Binary

Applications can be made up to 10 weeks before the discharge date, but cannot be settled until after the discharge date.

I suspect that Bale has fallen foul of rule changes designed to keep real criminals out of the country, hence the exemption of the UKBA from the ROA and their ability to take into account spent convictions.

What is required, as I have said before, is a reworking of the ROA so that only CM convictions are included, and summary justice is excluded. For the sake of all service personnel.

[Whenurhappy]

I think the interpretation is that you cannot apply to remain until you have left the Services - which is incorrect. At the 4 year point (used to be 5) you can apply for indefinite leave to remain and commence the naturalisation process if you wish - irrespective of your job! No one from UKBA is going to say 'Soz, can't grant you citizenship cos' you is still in the Army'.

However, once you have left the services there is a time limitation on applying - again, common across all propsective applicants.

[Avionker]

This quote:-

Members and former members of HM Forces can apply for settlement using form SET(O) if they have served in HM Forces for a minimum of 4 years and have been, or are in the process of being, discharged from service. (There are different requirements for former Gurkhas, who can apply for settlement from outside the UK if they have served for 4 years in the British Army.)

Is lifted from here:-

UK Border Agency | How to apply for settlement from inside the UK (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/settlement/applicationtypes/)

Perhaps I'm just looking in the wrong places but so far I can see no reference to a method this guy could have used to apply any earlier.

[Courtney Mil]

At least he's now been granted leave to appeal, so, hopefully it's moving in the right direction.

[Chugalug2]

... hopefully it's moving in the right direction.
Rather depends on what the "it" is that you refer to CM. As regards this particular case I would guess that it's pretty well cut and dried, but we'll see.
The real issue though hasn't started moving, well visibly anyway. The UKBA needs to drop summary convictions from its automatic disqualification for naturalisation list. It also needs to include service in HM Forces as an automatic credit in its reasons to award naturalisation list. It also needs to recruit ex-Servicemen and women in much greater numbers if it possibly can, in an effort to turn round its abysmal performance to date.

[baffman]

I think the interpretation is that you cannot apply to remain until you have left the Services - which is incorrect. At the 4 year point (used to be 5) you can apply for indefinite leave to remain and commence the naturalisation process if you wish - irrespective of your job! No one from UKBA is going to say 'Soz, can't grant you citizenship cos' you is still in the Army'... Like 'Avionker', I don't think that's right. You have to have served for four years to be eligible for Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR), but official information (rightly or wrongly) is very clear that you cannot apply for ILR until coming up to your discharge date.

While serving and for 28 days following discharge, Commonwealth personnel are officially "exempt from immigration control".

From the MoD website (http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/defencefor/servicecommunity/housing/foreignandcommonwealthcitizens.htm):
...To assist HM Forces personnel in making the transition to civilian life, settlement applications may be lodged up to 10 weeks before discharge date, although settlement cannot be granted until after exemption from control has ceased upon discharge. ...

[Climebear]

Avionker (http://www.pprune.org/7312494-post87.html)
The point, as far as I can tell is this, he has been refused leave to remain in the country by the UKBA because he was charged and fined for a disciplinary offence last year. After the 2010 amendment to the Rehabilitation of Offenders act (1974) all convictions, whether spent or not, can be taken into account by the UKBA. Prior to this amendment there were no exceptions, once a conviction was spent, it was spent. So if his offence took place last year or 12 years ago it would still be considered as a criminal conviction by the UKBA.


The real injustice as far as I am concerned is that all punishments awarded under military discipline which lead to a fine or detention are regarded as convictions. A civilian has to be taken to court, tried and found guilty to receive a conviction. During this process they are entitled to professional legal representation.

A member of HM Forces can be charged, the offence heard by and disposed of by their Commanding officer, with no right to legal representation. This means any serviceman or woman who leaves the Forces and has been charged and fined in the 12 months prior to leaving must declare the conviction when applying for a job. How many people know that? And in fact prior to 1st May this year, the rehabilitation period for a conviction leading to a fine was actually 5 years.

I am willing to accept that offences dealt with by a Court Martial should be regarded with the same weight as a Civilian court conviction but a simple charge? Heard by any old commissioned officer without specialist legal training or experience? That is ludicrous.


http://www.ilpa.org.uk/data/resource...s-Act-1974.pdf


Not all Service Discipline offences are recorded on the Police National Computer. Details of what offences under the Armed Forces Act 2006 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/52/contents)are or are not Recordable Offences on the Police National Computer are detailed in Statutory Instrument 2009 No 1922 'The Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (Armed Forces) Order 2009' (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/1922/contents/made). This, as is usual, is rather complex; luckily a summary of what is included is in Hansard as a response to a question (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/cm110307/text/110307w0003.htm#1103083001191):

Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence whether criminal convictions of members of the armed forces are recorded on the Police National Computer. [41019]

Mr Robathan [holding answer 16 February 2011]: Yes. Recordable offences on the Police National Computer are those offences under section 42 of the Armed Forces Act 2006 for which the corresponding offences under the law of England and Wales are also offences that are recordable under regulation 3 of the National Police Records (Recordable Offences) Regulations 2000.

In addition, there are a number of service offences that are recordable. These are offences under the following sections of the Armed Forces Act 2006:

a. Section 11(1)—Misconduct towards a superior officer;

b. Section 14—Using force against a sentry, etc.;

c. Section 24(1)—Damage to or loss of public or service property;

d. Section 27—Obstructing or failing to assist a service policeman;

e. Section 28—Resistance to arrest, etc. (only in relation to a conviction under section 28(1)(b) or (c)—using violence or threatening behaviour);

f. Section 29—Offences in relation to service custody;

7 Mar 2011 : Column 805W

g. Section 30—Allowing escape, or unlawful release of prisoners, etc. (but only where the conviction is under section 30(4)(a));

h. Section 39—Attempts to commit any offences specified above; and

i. Section 40—Encouraging or assisting the commission of any offence above (apart from an attempt).

[SOSL]

You can't say that there was nothing unlawful about his so called conviction because, unless I'm very much mistaken, you know nothing about the summary hearing which resulted in his "conviction".

I hasten to add that I know nothing about it myself.

However, if for instance, he wasn't told exactly what the charge against him was, in advance of the hearing and if important witnesses weren't called or if any other aspect of the proceedings were flawed, then it was indeed unlawful.

I don't know what happened so this is just a debating point.

The important thing is that he has now been granted leave to appeal and let's hope he does so.

Never mind the nit-picking, let's just try and help him. He is, after all one of us.

Rgds SOS

P.S. What a shame Gilbert Blades has retired, he would probably have fixed this one before breakfast! Whoops, I've just googled him and it seems he hasn't retired - cor blimey!

[Whenurhappy]

Summary hearings are lawful (set against a trend in the medja - and here - that they are hastily-concocted Kangaroo courts) as are the findings and the punishments prescribed; perhaps the review that has been called has identified a breach of RP in this case or restrospective grounds to appeal (although this would set a precedent).

I have taken the time to speak to a colleague who deals with Consular matters who has confirmed that there is no restriction on SP applying for citizenship (ie to be 'naturalised') at the 5 year point. Whilst serving there is no demonstrable need to apply for 'leave to remain'. This is clearly where there is confusion amongst F&C SP - between what is meant by 'leave to remain' and 'naturalisation' - when either can be applied for. I can only assume that his CoC failed to advise him of his options (they are not 'rights' per se).

I wish L/Cpl Bale sucess but I still can't work out on the 'facts' that are presented in the petition (and elsewhere) why he isn't granted 'leave to remain' as he is (lawfully) married to a UK citizen and has children who are similarly UK citizens - and this is nothing to do with the recognition of Summary offences being held against him.

Perhaps I'm too cynically after 27 years...but those who have had the privilege to lead personnel (especially from the Army) will have heard just about every toe-curling personal drama and convoluted story that could be imagined. And some of them even stand scrutiny...

[SOSL]

Wuh, I'm beginning to realise, that you and I are in violent agreement!

Agreed that summary hearing are in fact legal and lawful, unless RP are breached.

Agreed there is no restriction on SP applying for citizenship etc

Agreed that the "facts" as presented don't properly add up. We obvoiusly don't have all the facts.

Agreed about the toe-curling.

Rgds SOS

[Whenurhappy]

Phew! I also agree that we don't seem to have all the facts. It's interesting to note that this particular case has been the cause celebre for a hitherto unknown Service charity, a cause which has the charity now positively dripping in lime-light!

[salad-dodger]

Summary hearings are lawful (set against a trend in the medja - and here - that they are hastily-concocted Kangaroo courts)

They may be legal - I can't comment on that, I'm no legal expert. Although I'm sure a good lawyer could find many parts of EU law that might cause problems.

They may not be hastily concocted.

But 'Kangaroo Court' is a pretty good analogy based on my memories. As I said in an earlier post, 'march in the guilty bastard' pretty much sums up many peoples experiences of service justice.

S-D

[Wander00]

I am not a a lawyer, but from what one reads of this case and others, he is married to a UK citizenm his children are UK citiozens (all "British by birth"), and under the Human Rights Act he has a right to enjoy family life. Surely Mrs B-li@r would take his case up "pro bono"

[Whenurhappy]

AFA 2006 was the result of ECHR legislation and although miscarriages of justice might occur, the 'system' is considerably more robust than it was and there are considerably more checks and balances in place compared with the Single-service Acts and RP.

It is interesting that this case hasn't been taken pro bono afaik.

[baffman]

AFA 2006 was the result of ECHR legislation and although miscarriages of justice might occur, the 'system' is considerably more robust than it was and there are considerably more checks and balances in place compared with the Single-service Acts and RP.Agreed, despite the customary reluctance to give the ECHR and HRA the credit for anything.

It is interesting that this case hasn't been taken pro bono afaik. Do you know that it hasn't?

[Tankertrashnav]

Surely Mrs B-li@r would take his case up "pro bono"


Wouldn't bank on it. In my limited experience of millionaires, their main interest in life is usually making the next million. :*

[Lukeafb1]

Outrageous! Now 23,873 signatures.

[Avionker]

I really only have one question I would like to know the definitive answer to.

Is it possible for service personnel to be charged with, and found guilty of, an offence which results in them having a recordable conviction without the case going to the Court Martial system?

[baffman]

Outrageous! Now 23,873 signaturesThere is also a separate petition on the HM Government e-Petition website. 'Only' 400 signatures when I last looked, but growing. Anyone sufficiently outraged to sign BOTH petitions, please get signing!

Links to both petitions here:

Sign the petition on behalf of L/Cpl Bale Balewai (http://www.baff.org.uk/201207291448/sign-the-petition-on-behalf-of-l-cpl-bale-balewai.html)

[Whenurhappy]

I've checked both the Veterans Aid and BAFF Websites (it is the former who launched the petition) and there is no mention of legal moves, pro bono or otherwise. Indeed, BAFF advise that VA decline further assistance (but then BAFF has no status, charitable or otherwise).

Again, I would have thought that it would be in the interest of a law firm to hitch on to this one and make a name for themselves in an otherwise high profile case...

[baffman]

I've checked both the Veterans Aid and BAFF Websites (it is the former who launched the petition) and there is no mention of legal moves, pro bono or otherwise. Indeed, BAFF advise that VA decline further assistance (but then BAFF has no status, charitable or otherwise).Yup, BAFF is independent.

Again, I would have thought that it would be in the interest of a law firm to hitch on to this one and make a name for themselves in an otherwise high profile case... This is NOT inside information, as the BAFF website makes it clear it is a VA campaign...

but it's on the public record if you look for it (a) that Mr Baleiwai is legally represented as far as the service disciplinary proceedings are concerned and (b) that at least one legal firm well known for human rights work issued an offer of assistance some days ago - I can think of others who might be equally willing to help. This is a matter for Mr Baleiwai and those advising him.

Is it possible for service personnel to be charged with, and found guilty of, an offence which results in them having a recordable conviction without the case going to the Court Martial system? Yes, depending on sentence, including for some service offences which are not offences under civilian criminal law.

Please sign the petitions!

[Whenurhappy]

I wasn't claiming it was inside information - simply repeating what was on BAFF's website for the benefit of PPruners!

Again I find it interesting, to say the least, that no firm appears to be representing Mr Balewai in respect of his imminent deportation. If that had been the case I'm sure that VA and BAFF - and otheres -woiuld publicise the fact, demonstrate the bone fides of mr Balewai's case for Indefinte Leave to Remain. The first step would be to obtain a Court Injunction to stay proceedings whilst the legal team sought a Immigration Tribunal appeal, followed by, potentially, a Judicial Review.

Are there not some ex SP on this website within the legal fraternity who fancy so high-profile por-bono work? Suffice to say, if I was in the UK and out of the Services, I'd help this chap like a shot, once all the facts were discovered.

[SOSL]

e.g. falling asleep when on armed guard duty.

I once acted as airman's friend for a young RAF copper who did that; at the time the max sentence was 2 years in prison (not MCTC). The charge was disposed of at a summary CO's orderly room.

As it turned out he got a thumping great fine and a severe dig. He was lucky 'cause he retained his service career, but he will have a criminal record for the rest of his life.

But, back to Bale, the best thing any of us can do is sign the HMG e-petition and I recommend you all do so.

It's likely he can get out of this pickle by himself, especially if he has been following this thread and anything on related sites which make lots of suggestions. Still the e-gov, e-petition can only help; if everyone who has signed up to the VA petition, so far, also signs that petition, it would be 25% of the way to getting an outing in the house of commons.

RGDS SOS

[baffman]

The best thing any of us can do is sign the HMG e-petition and I recommend you all do so.... the e-gov, e-petition can only help; if everyone who has signed up to the VA petition, so far, also signs that petition, it would be 25% of the way to getting an outing in the house of commons.Exactly right. Thanks for your post, SOSL.

Whenurhappy - Thanks. Media are saying that Mr Baleiwai HAS now been granted temporary leave to remain to allow him to pursue his appeal against the summary award.

Please sign both petitions! (http://www.baff.org.uk/201207291448/sign-the-petition-on-behalf-of-l-cpl-bale-balewai.html)

[SOSL]

Marginal, thread drift here, but I am reacting to previous posts on this thread, including my own which may have been taken wrongly, and I haven't forgotten L/Cpl Balewai.

I retired from the RAF 8 years ago, so forgive me if some of my observations dont apply any longer.

There is nothing, fundamentally, wrong with summary hearings. Summary disposition simply means the alleged offence is dealt with by an appointed official and the evidence is not assessed by a jury. It is a pragmatic measure which prevents the higher courts becoming overwhelmed by an avalaunche of minor cases. In a way it is a waiver to Magna Carta.

However, in the UK it is conducted under procedural controls and is open to appeal to a higher authority.

There is a huge number of juristictions, throughout the world where there is no equivalent of Magna Carta or Habeus Corpus and all alleged offences are dealt with by summary hearing (e.g. no jury).

In some juristictions, believe it or not, the defendant is not allowed to see the evidence against him or her.

I have heard that in certain countries, a woman accused of adultery (wtf?) can be tried, without being informed of any evidence against her,convicted and then judicially murdered.... But surely no judiciary could be so stupid, could they?

I have also heard that there is a juristiction in a supposedly developed and very wealthy country which found a young lady guilty of being raped, and sentenced her to be flogged (wtf?) for being raped! You couldn't make it up!

The fact is that there are so many NASTY, IGNORANT TWXTS, running beautiful parts of the world, populated by mostly nice, but stupid, people who let the fucxxers get away with it.

But getting back to home, by far the majority of all detected crime, in the UK, is dealt with in summary hearings e.g. in a magistrates court, and you may be aware that there is an induction process for JPs which includes limited legal training. This is not unlike the limited legal training which all military officers undergo in basic training and in subsequent promotion exams and staff training courses.

In a magistrates court the clerk to the court is the person who has most knowlegde of the law and who guides the magistrates when necessary.

In the military, for summary hearings, there is no such person but, if you have any doubt (in my day) you could always talk to OC Admin, before the hearing. When it came to Court Martial, the law was set out by the Judge Advocate General.

I have personally disposed of many charges and have handed out some relatively severe and some "slap on the wrist" punishments - mostly based on the seniority and the culpability of the offenders. e.g. a Sgt and an SAC failed to turn up for their shift because they had gone to play 18 holes of a golf league. The Sgt got a severe dig (which affected his posting and promotion prospects), the SAC got an admonition (which didn't). Also where necessary (or where the accused requested it) I refered some to the CO and thence to Court Martial, via a Summary of Evidence, as it was called.

Most officers taking summary hearings have had some legal training; probably enough, given the obvious positive incentive for them to be fair in their decisions (otherwise morale suffers and leadership become a little difficult).

I dont think our system is wrong. But most serving personnel who are facing a summary hearing in their unit don't do enough to help themselves. They aren't properly briefed and they have an inbred loyalty to the chain of command, which puts them at a disadvantage in trying to defend themselves.

The problem with military summary hearings is not that they are unfair procedures, but that the the accused airman, airwoman, sapper, bombardier,signaller, gunner etc etc (apologies to the RN, can't remember your designations) usually doesn't try to help him/her self because of their conditioning.

It may be that L/Cpl Bale fell into that trap. Hence the blot on his copybook and, seemingly, the HMBA reaction. But that can't be the whole story.

Forgive the rant - I just got carried away because of my own experience.

Rgds SOS

[Whenurhappy]

....................

[Shack37]

Done (after a major battle with the captcha).
Number 428, need a lot more.

[Shack37]

The problem with military summary hearings is not that they are unfair procedures, but that the the accused airman, airwoman, sapper, bombardier,signaller, gunner etc etc (apologies to the RN, can't remember your designations) usually doesn't try to help him/her self because of their conditioning.

It may be that L/Cpl Bale fell into that trap. Hence the blot on his copybook and, seemingly, the HMBA reaction. But that can't be the whole story.


SOSL
If the non commissioned ranks you refer to are so "conditioned" by the system to the extent that "they don't try to help themselves" then by definition these summary hearings are unfair. Why cannot that be "the whole story"? If some relevant details are missing the responsibility for that rests with the (legally trained according to you) probably very junior officer who was judge, jury and executioner when the charge was heard.

[SOSL]

I think you and I are in the same boat as I was with Wuh. I agree with what you say. When the accused doesn't do enough to help him or her self then they have been treated unfairly.

My point about not knowing the full story wasn't about the fairness or lawfulness of any particular process. It was about what we have been told on this thread.

Rgds SOS

[Shack37]

SOSL

My point about not knowing the full story wasn't about the fairness or lawfulness of any particular process. It was about what we have been told on this thread.

And there's the nub. My apologies, stick, wrong end getting hold of.

[SOSL]

I think you may be my kind of guy!

Rgds SOS

[Q-RTF-X]

Sigh

It doesn't look like the system is getting any better ... Deportation for a Speeding Ticket

He volunteered to fight for Britain. Now this soldier faces deportation and jail... all over a speeding fine | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2193293/He-volunteered-fight-Britain-Now-soldier-faces-deportation-jail--speeding-fine.html)

[Whenurhappy]

My only caution with this latest case its that it is reported in the Daily Wail. It seems that the soldier followed the procedure but the UKBA have rejected his application. Is there more to the story?

Is there an update on the subject of teh OP - Mr Balewai?

[4mastacker]

It would appear that he has been granted a period to remain in the UK whilst his military disciplinary record is appealed.

Fiji soldier Isimeli "Bale" Baleiwai reprieved of deportation pending Courts Martial Appeal - YouTube

[baffman]

I understand that the main Baleiwai petition is going to be presented shortly, so if you haven't already signed it and would like to do so, you know what to do ;)

Stop Bale being deported after 13 years serving British Armed Forces (http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stop-bale-being-deported-after-13-years-serving-british/signatures.html)

Thanks! And thanks to everyone who has signed already.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Done - 27,293

[baffman]

Pop, thanks for signing!

What the petition is asking for:

We, the undersigned, call on the British Government to grant British Citizenship to Isimeli Baleiwai after 13 years military service with the British Armed Forces.

We, the undersigned, call on the British Government to review immigration Law and Policy regarding Foreign and Commonwealth Soldiers.Seems fair to me. Please sign if you can. Petition ends very soon.

Stop Bale being deported after 13 years serving British Armed Forces Petition (http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stop-bale-being-deported-after-13-years-serving-british.html)

[srobarts]

Done, 27619

[Expect to walk]

Also done: 27635

[AvionicToad]

L Mowday - Freedom of Information requests - WhatDoTheyKnow (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/l_mowday)

Looks like someone high up on the inside also thinks that the summary hearings are not quite right. I know of RAF police interview tapes being edited and I don't mind betting it happened here too.

There maybe more to come out!!!

[Heathrow Harry]

what???

the POLICE fit someone up???

How could you suggest such a thing......................................

[baffman]

Thanks so much to all PPRuNers who signed the petition or in other ways supported this campaign, excellently led in my opinion by the charity Veterans Aid, with articulate and sensible involvement by the Baleiwai family and others affected.

Couple of links:

Veterans Aid - Caring for Veterans in Crisis ... Now! (http://www.veterans-aid.net/)

Border Agency U-turn on deportation of FCO soldiers - Channel 4 News (http://www.channel4.com/news/border-agency-u-turn-on-deportation-of-fco-soldiers)

Victory on settlement rules for F&C citizens with minor disciplinary convictions | from British Armed Forces Federation (http://www.baff.org.uk/201211221511/government-relaxes-settlement-rules-for-f-c-citizens-with-minor-disciplinary-convictions.html)

Thanks again all concerned :ok:

[baffman]

Can I just pass on this thank you message from the Baleiwai family :ok:

We would like to thank BAFF and all those kind people that have supported our case and signed our petition.

We have been overwhelmed by the support and the generosity of spirit of others to find time for my family, in what has been a difficult 5 months.

Bale was found 'Not Guilty' at Colchester Military Court of the original summary offence, which was the reason he was defined by the Home Office as 'not of good charachter' to settle here. We have not had confirmation from the Home Office that Bale's citizenship will be granted, but we know they are reviewing it urgently.

We are also pleased to hear that immigration policy regarding Foreign and Commonwealth armed forces personnel is being reviewed. The recent proposed changes appear to be limited, but we believe that this complicated issue is now better understood and the Government understand that the British public do not want Veterans to be treated like this. Sadly, we are still being contacted weekly by families in the same situation, but we do feel that there is more hope that their cases will be resolved and no more Foreign and Commonwealth soldiers will be deported for minor convictions and disciplinary offences.

A Big Big Thank-you from the Baleiwai Family.
My bold. Source: Thank-you message from Baleiwai family (http://www.baff.org.uk/201211251512/thank-you-message-from-baleiwai-family.html)

[Avionker]

Excellent result all round, common sense wins the day for a change.