Operation Mincemeat

[Churchills Ghost]

BBC2's evening scheduling inserted a programme about Operation Mincemeat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mincemeat) tonight instead of the advertised event. Did anyone see it?

Great stuff!

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qUPtoyCDLXM/T04WzRoJRsI/AAAAAAAAIJ8/if1OvubQtiY/s136/WC%2520s.png

[Lima Juliet]

Yes, I did. :ok:

It is also the subject of a cracking 1956 movie The Man Who Never Was (1956) - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049471/)

LJ

PS. It's Operation MINCEMEAT - the codeword is in capitals :ok:

[chiglet]

Had "Operation Crossbow" on last night. about the Photo Interpeters at Medmedham. Cracking prog. [If missed, "may" be avbl on Iplayer]

[Lima Juliet]

That'll be Operation CROSSBOW, then? :ugh:

[500N]

I enjoyed the film, wish we had the other programs out here.
Will have to find them on line somewhere and watch them.


Re Operation MINCEMEAT in Wiki (Yes, I know), interesting to see that the
security services had to release the whole story in the 1950's because
of an amateur who wrote a fictional book so close to the truth.
("At this point the British security services decided that the best response was to publish the story.)

Not often you see that but you have to wonder if the author with the posts he held during the war didn't have inside knowledge.

.

[Wingedplumber]

Leon,

Who are you?.....The thread police?

Come on mate chill.....:ok:

[BEagle]

I bought Ben Macintyre's book 'Operation Mincemeat' to read on a flight a couple of years ago and it was unputdownable!

ISBN 978 1 4088 0600 5 - available from all the usual retailers.

I recall my father saying how good the film was when he went to see it with some friends at the local fleapit - and that it was very close to the true story!

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Leon Jabachjabicz. I know what you mean but remember that JSP101 has now been reduced to the status of "guide". Comms anarchy isn't, apparently, considerd undesirable. :sad:

[green granite]

The Operation Crossbow programme was a rewrite of history, It for example mentioned Cherwell who totally opposed the idea that Germany had rockets yet makes no mention of professor RV Jones who proved their existence or Constance Babbington-Smith the lead Photo Interpreter. It also said that Medmedham instigated the raids on Peenemünde and the Ski sites, which is rather beyond their authority, and why was the programme full of Yanks who played no part in Peenemünde?

[Tankertrashnav]

Leon,

Who are you?.....The thread police?

Come on mate chill.....http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif


Leon Jabachjabicz - 1,277 posts

Winged Plumber - 7 posts

More to the point - who are you, Winged Plumber? ;)

Thread policing is an integral part of PPruNe!

[Basil]

The TV prog referred to a picture of Cholmondeley and Montagu posing with the van shortly after crossing the Scottish border. In the book the same (I think) pic is annotated "at Langbank on the River Clyde". Langbank ain't close to the border.


'Just pretend to be lovers to give a ring of truth to our letters.' Yeah, right, Monty! :}

[Trackmaster]

One thing that always amuses me about this site is how quickly the pedantic tribe swing into action. It must be hell, hovering, waiting for a typo. (Sorry, I meant typographical error)

And I haven't had too many posts either. So I suppose that means I should also keep my thoughts to myself. :confused:

[TEEEJ]

BBC iPlayer - Operation Mincemeat (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00wllmb/Operation_Mincemeat/)

BBC iPlayer - Operation Crossbow (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b011cr8f/Operation_Crossbow/)

[NutLoose]

Documentary about the operation interviewing those involved, if you do not remember it's the dropping off of a corpse off Spain to fool the Germans

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

Watching with interest. Talk about planting Fake News.

[BEagle]

'The Man Who Never Was' is a pretty accurate 1956 movie about Op. MINCEMEAT.

Available on DVD from the usual places.

[Pontius Navigator]

'The Man Who Never Was' is a pretty accurate 1956 movie about OPERATION MINCEMEAT.

Available on DVD from the usual places.
I can't remember if the film covered the German side as well. I know a more recent documentary did, but the latest offering included interviews with Major Martin's girl friend.

One thing it didn't cover was whether the briefcase was returned (or did I miss that with MiL shouting through it). It was 'essential' that it was returned so that we would not know that the Germans knew our plans.

[Pontius Navigator]

Yesterday was indeed a repeat from 2010/2012.

[ExGrunt]

One thing it didn't cover was whether the briefcase was returned

The briefcase was returned. I read a book about the operation years ago which included details of the testing done on the briefcase and contents after it was returned. IIRC one of the sealed letters, which had very carefully been folded only once, had two fold creases on the paper, so they knew it had been opened, read, refolded and resealed to make it look unopened.

HTH

EG

[tubby linton]

Copies of the letters were found in Abwehr records in Berlin after the end of the war .The major’s identity has never been proved with a recent thought being that he was one of the dead from the loss of the converted carrier HMS Dasher.

[Captivep]

Copies of the letters were found in Abwehr records in Berlin after the end of the war .The major’s identity has never been proved with a recent thought being that he was one of the dead from the loss of the converted carrier HMS Dasher.
I thought it had pretty well established (and, indeed, confirmed by HMG) that the body used was that of Glyndwr Michael:

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/4041661/michael,-glyndwr/

[Warmtoast]

Interesting piece by Ben Macintyre about Op Mincemeat appeared in the Sun earlier this week here:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9365200/operation-mincemeat-1943-invasion-of-sicily/

[Geriaviator]

A few years back it was proposed that another body had been chosen for the Operation Mincemeat deception, a seaman from HMS Dasher which had sunk in the Clyde following an explosion. The corpse of Glyndwr Michael was several weeks old before having to be transported to Spain packed in dry ice aboard a submarine. Any pathologist could have inferred that the body had been refrigerated and was three months old than the week it was supposed to be, never mind the rat poison in the stomach. So a young seaman may rest under Major Martin's headstone in Huelva, while Michael the unfortunate tramp is honoured beneath an RN headstone in Ardrossan Cemetery.

[Chugalug2]

Captivep:-

I thought it had pretty well established (and, indeed, confirmed by HMG) that the body used was that of Glyndwr Michael

In all likelihood we'll probably never know for sure. Geriaviator is correct, there was indeed speculation that 'Major Martin' was a victim of the explosion on HMS Dasher, offering a more convincing corpse than that of Michael. The transhipment onto HMS Seraph was via Scotland anyway, but the ID docs would have needed to reflect the 'new' man. No doubt it could be done, and given the national security implications involved, if it was done then the only evidence of it left would be in their respective graves. Hopefully they will remain there, undisturbed. Some stories are better left with a perpetual question mark hanging over them....

[Captivep]

Captivep:-



In all likelihood we'll probably never know for sure. Geriaviator is correct, there was indeed speculation that 'Major Martin' was a victim of the explosion on HMS Dasher, offering a more convincing corpse than that of Michael. The transhipment onto HMS Seraph was via Scotland anyway, but the ID docs would have needed to reflect the 'new' man. No doubt it could be done, and given the national security implications involved, if it was done then the only evidence of it left would be in their respective graves. Hopefully they will remain there, undisturbed. Some stories are better left with a perpetual question mark hanging over them....
How interesting! As a friend of mine is wont to say, every day's a schoolday...

However, as you say, whatever the truth they both deserve to remain undisturbed, at peace.

[Stuart Sutcliffe]

Ben Macintyre's book, first published 2010, provides a very thorough detailing of the operation.