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md23
18th Jul 2012, 11:26
I'm so aggrieved about this that I thought I'd join the forum and ask the question following emparting some 'news'

LHC have raised their prices ! - When money is short anyway and their ferry work is drying up becuase of the Olypic Zone etc, they've decided to increase the costs to the very people that will continue to privode revenue to them!.

Lets forget that this doesnt constitue a legal notice period for a change of arrangements, lets also forget that they also intend to impose the change on those of us whom have in law secured and pre-paid for SFH at the previous rates.

When fuel costs have dropped and several of their heli's are old and in need of some TLC (I ask you, velcro to keep a door closed - is that a propper repair?) how can they justify putting their costs up, now becomming the most expensive place to SFH from in the Surrey/Sussex area ?

Upset Yes I am, having spoken to other SFH maybe its time to boycot LHC and vote with our feet and money. I and others have spent thousands of pounds with them over the years and this is how they repay the commitment by biting the hands that feed them and biting them when they need us most - when their other work is drying up because of the olympics.

We the SFH and the students are now being forced to pay another £20 ! per hour from the 1st of August. Thats a nearing 10% increase on previous prices.

This terrible commercial descision could well leave them with even less work if the rumers amoungst us SFH are true -

Q. Any students are LHC - how are you being effected ?
Q. Anyone know if are airfields are doing deals on SFH apart from their published prices, just curious what deals can be done..

Whirlygig
18th Jul 2012, 18:09
A few things that you may care to consider before spouting off ...

1. When did LHC last put up their prices, and how often?
2. Other factors determining their operating costs that LHC can't control e.g. landing fees, rent imposed, maintenance costs.
3. Jet A1 may have gone down but Avgas is on the way up again.

Which would you rather ... paying another £20 per hour or losing yet another helicopter operator from the South of England and having to drive further to get to another school because they've had to shut up shop.

There is no legal requirement to notify customers of price increases and you had well better check your knowledge of consumer law if you believe you have a legal right over money you've paid up front.

There ARE NO wealthy helicopter schools and I get the impression you are accusing the owners of profiteering.

Cheers

Whirls

PS - I have never flown with LHC, neither do I know the owners but I do understand a little about running an aviation business.

CRAZYBROADSWORD
18th Jul 2012, 18:15
I have no connection with LHC but I think it a bit much to have a rant because they raise their prices if its too much go somewhere else

John R81
18th Jul 2012, 19:39
I am not connected to London Helicopters.

I do know how much my bills - particularly insurance - have risen. The cost of running my machines has rocketed.

007helicopter
18th Jul 2012, 20:50
LHC Are a business and have to make a profit, it is all simply a supply and demand situation, the market will decide if it can stand a rise.

SFH and maintenance customers can vote with their feet if their is a better alternative.

Camp Freddie
18th Jul 2012, 23:32
I see "md23" is the usual probationary ppruner with 1 post ever, how very dull and predictable.

Swiss Cheese
19th Jul 2012, 05:39
Some months ago I understood that Bristows were in the process of returning in some shape or form to the LHC premises at EGKR. Perhaps some renegotiation of the premises deal between LHC and Bristows has happened, with the inevitable rise in overhead?

There is of course more than one provider of training at Redhill, and rates can be easily compared.

Need money
19th Jul 2012, 08:31
"lets also forget that they also intend to impose the change on those of us whom have in law secured and pre-paid for SFH at the previous rates"..

I find this bit unusual, the 2 or 3 providers I have used in the past normally hold the rate for those that have prepaid for X hours ..

Tallguy
19th Jul 2012, 12:30
Nothing is becoming cheaper, why should any SFH supplier subsidise a customers flying?

It has always struck me as curious that we as aviation professionals and companies (focusing on SFH suppliers with airframes such as leased in Robinsons) have often failed to make a good margin on our services in comparison with the margins I seem to see from other industries.

This is compounded by a seeming air of fear that if we did choose to increase our prices then the customers would walk away. Well the customers would have no choice if as an industry we pulled our socks up and did it as one...

I would summise that as a customer you would be truly shocked if you were given visability of the actual figures involved in running aircraft and how slim the margins can be.

I congratulate LHC.

fluffy5
19th Jul 2012, 12:46
Self fly hirers are like yesterday's news....
Why should a prestigious flight training organisation be bothered with winging self fly hirers, that don't pay that much money , compared to a guy who is now training for licence. Wake up..... Any FTO treats its mal adjusted, self fly hirers, may come back with the aircraft bent and lie about it, with certain issues.
Now if you want to grab the FTO by its testicles than buy an aircraft, and allow them to lease it, then they will take it from you and treat you seriously. These guys are in it for the money.
Self fly hirers are secondary income,.......like yesterday's jam.

Fluffy

firebird_uk
19th Jul 2012, 13:00
md23 - I don't think you're going to get much sympathy here.

Very few training / charter helicopter companies are making money, pilots wages haven't gone up for years and most SFH rates have not seen rises in line with inflation.

But the good news is that it's your money! So you can tell LHC to Foxtrot Oscar and go somewhere "better".

Otherwise I'd suggest you accept that the increases are probably reasonable or take up a cheaper hobby.

I don't know when they last changed their rates, but le's assume an R44 and that their prices have been the same for the last 24 months. The price increase equates to a 5% increase, inflation over the last 2 years will be around 8%. PRICE HIKE!? You should be thanking them for the 3% discount they're passing on. [But then again this post wasn't about money in the first place was it md23.]

Oh, and I am both a customer and competitor of LHC (as it seems the done thing to state the nature one's relationship).

Old Age Pilot
19th Jul 2012, 13:00
Fluffy,

Sorry, but that just reads like a load of nonsense.

Tallguy has it spot on.

Everybody wants something for nothing - or at least for cheap. My experience is that the complainers are always the ones that can't really afford it.

Helicopter flying is a prestigious activity, a privilege. Helicopters are :mad: expensive to maintain, running a helicopter company is cut-throat. If they put the prices up, it's because they have to to make things work.

md23, wind your neck in.

500e
19th Jul 2012, 14:16
Fuel up.
$ to £ up.
Parts up
Maintenance up
Hangerage up
electric up
rates up
Insurance up
General overheads up
Regulation up.
SFH UP

"Self fly hirers are secondary income,.......like yesterday's jam."
Fluffy
Dangerous analergy, a large percentage of trainees will want to hire after gaining licence, I would not have trained with a Co that had that ethos, even though I was lucky to own a share in a machine.
"self fly hirers, may come back with the aircraft bent and lie about it"
That I can believe,
With all of above I do not think any flight school is living high on the hog, most have dropping No of trainees with escalating overheads.
Talk to the insurers regarding No. of policy cancellations or ground cover only.

Cylinder Head
19th Jul 2012, 15:48
MD23 - Time for a few home truths?

Just exactly who is "forcing" you to pay an extra £20 per hour? If you don't want to pay the price, don't fly! I think its a bit out of order trying to stir up dissent amongst others.

I have no conection with LHC but as a flying school based North of London, I know well the economics of the business. Operating helicopters in the UK is a thankless business and almost impossible to make anything other than minimal profits. We do it 'cos we love it and that's the problem, we've been undercharging for years. Costs have recently gone through the roof and the price charged in the industry for SFH and training is now about £100 per hour too cheap in my opinion.

Avgas has gone up by 50 % over the last 5 or so years - has the SFH rate reflected that - I don't think so. How many flying schools have gone bust in the last 18 months? Five that I know of because the market has been working to a flawed model for far too long and its about time there were some sensible price rises to allow schools to make an adequate margin. Trouble is that as prices rise, volumes go down, so income remains static and there is over supply in the market with too many operators undercutting each other. Bravo for LHC for grasping the nettle and trying to stay profitable.

You may have spent thousands with LHC but I can assure you that practically all you have spent will have been paid out again to the airfield, fuel companies, maintenance, insurance, not mention supporting the lifestyles of the parasites at Gatwick.

If you feel that you can get better elsewhere, then by all means vote with your feet - you'll find cheaper elsewhere I am sure, but we know what the costs are and the only way to be cheaper is to cut corners. Do you really want to fly with a company that does that?

If you can't afford to pay LHC's new rates, then don't pay them - but don't try and make out they are profiteering - if they wanted to do that, they'd be in banking!

Senior Pilot
20th Jul 2012, 11:08
I see "md23" is the usual probationary ppruner with 1 post ever, how very dull and predictable.

Who also signed off one minute after trolling, and hasn't returned since.

Endof.....