Having read all the pro's and con's with regard to joining monarch lets have an idea who people think are safe or not.

Safe financially

BA
Ryanair
easyJet
Jet 2

Unsafe financially

Virgin
Monarch
Thomas Cook

No vitriol please.

How on earth do you get Jet 2 in the financially stable group. The market gives the Dart group little credit for it's earnings or (supposed) assets. Running flat out to stand still. While your at it you can remove BA (IAG) as well. Probably time for WW to be shown the door given the monopoly position they have and still he is unable to turn a profit...

Ryanair, yes, but even MOL has said 'we have zero visibility for revenue this coming winter'.....

Crap industry.....get used to it....

Ryanair, yes, but even MOL has said 'we have zero visibility for revenue this coming winter'.....

I'd keep well clear of MOL projections. The new tactic appears to be one of driving down expectations and then delivering massive revenue and profit numbers which in turn inflates the share price.

and I quite agree with you CK, within the financial community it is a given that they (MOL) always lowballs and then over achieve. It was meant in the context of ALL airlines and the visibilty going forward. It is zero or not much more......

Re Virgin"financially unsafe". Am I right in thinking that Virgin is a private company and doesn't have any need to publish it's accounts? How do we know they are "financially unsafe". A genuine question.

Jet2 could be considered safe by oth itself and it's predecessor, Channel Express, having been in continuous profit for decades.

Where do Thomson and Flybe fit in?

Unsafe financially : Air France

Brussels bureaucrats.

Untouchable. Unaccountable. Money-hoarding no-tax-paying well-fed empty suits and talking heads who should be dragged out by their 100€ haircuts to the mob waiting outside.

The french had it right in 1789. Bring Madame G back. Televise it. THAT is a show I will gladly pay for.

Does anyone have the link to the Financial Analysts Rumour Network where the analysts offer critique on piloting technique and make uninformed comments on half truths and misguided speculation.:ugh:

[QUOTE]While your at it you can remove BA (IAG) as well. Probably time for WW to be shown the door given the monopoly position they have and still he is unable to turn a profit...
/QUOTE]

The €527 million profit IAG posted in their first financial year ending in April is somewhat at odds with the above suggestion.....

BMRR......have a look at the forecast....and then have a look at the shareprice....say on a 5 year basis.....I rest my case.

Artie F and the OP are correct to classify Jet2 as financially stable. As part of the Dart Group they continually turn a profit. To say investors don't "like" DTG is rather harsh; whilst DTG provides a continuous return they do not pay high dividends to shareholders, preferring to reinvest the money in the company. Investors looking to turn a quick buck therefore go elsewhere.
I'd hardly say they were standing still either - the "Jet2holidays" brand in particular has seen considerable growth over the last 12-18 months.

Cathay Pacific...safe?! Big order at Farnborough this year for the A350-1000.

I can't see QATAR Airways going broke.;)

EK - makes more per year that all the above put together.

Will make even more when the 380 cracks are a thing of the past.

And will make even more when Germany and Canada issue more landing rights and stop running scared.

And it hasn't even merged..!

If we are talking outside the UK then:

Strong companies in my opinion, for the forseeable are:

EasyJet, Ryanair, Emirates, Lufthansa, KLM.

Middle companies:

BA, Nordshuttle, Jet2.

Weak companies:

Monarch, Virgin, Air Berlin, Flybe, Aer Lingus, TCX.

Air Berlin, I don't think so.....you need to catch up B and B with whats going on in the aviation world:ok:

The unmentionable airline's stake in Air Berlin doesn't change the fact it doesn't perform. Air Berlin is like BMI was - neither a LoCo nor a legacy airline. It doesn't fit. It has never made a profit. Lufthansa owned BMI and were either going to sell it for a loss or break it up. If BMI were still around I'd have included them in the list despite there strong owner.

Can't imagine why anyone would want to be interested in the financial professionals rumour network unless they want to learn how to wreck companies, banks, economies, the world.... The list is endless.

There is no such thing as a financially safe airline in this country in this economy. They are all one crisis away from closing. Margins are too thin in the airlines, and most make money from associated services (scratchcards, and baggage charges for example). If you want financially stable go to the Middle East, or Russia. In the UAE there is money and will to use it to bring people into the place to spend it, and in Russia I reckon they would just plough on regardless of whether they pay their bills or not.

The big 3 Middle East carries the safest by a mile.

Are any of you actually qualified to state whether an airline is stable or not?

Just looking at share prices is not going to give a picture of how stable the company is.

Do any of you have any business or investing experience.

I would say financially Jet2 is very stable.

It owns most of its aircraft, turns a profit every year, never made any flight crew redundant, is still expanding now when others are not and contrary to what allot of you are saying Investers Chronicle is recommending to buy Dart Group shares and has been for a long time.

I have to sit for many hours a day with people like you lot that think you know everything about how an airline is run!

I can't think that anyone who knows the history of Channel express air services or Jet 2 as it I'd known to the public would put them in the unsafe catorgry, the post by Stopstart on this subject being particularly accurate.

Also I dont think that anyone could call Norwegian Air Shuttle unsafe financially.

I can't help thinking that there is a lot of wishfull thinking from some posting above.

But look how confusing the picture is. Thomas Cook Belgium should be in the "Safe" department & JetAirFly (Belgium) could be printing money!!! but both are let down by the owning groups (TCX &TUI) which clearly need to be in the "un-safe" section.

Jet2 never made flight crew redundant? Yeah good one....:ugh:

If you believe what Harry Dent says then probably hardly anything is safe:-

Harry Dent

And what about Alitalia?

Jet2 never made flight crew redundant? Yeah good one....

Go on then, do tell when (excluding pilots who refused to accept a transfer away from a based that was to close)

I liked the question but seeing the answers I realise this thread is like asking my 2 year old to rate the flyability of all commercial aircraft available today. The answers really crack me up! :D

Next thing we know we will see on the PARUNE network (Professional Account Rumours Network) a discussion on who makes the safest derated take off's!:E

AIMINGHIGH123: The big 3 Middle East carries the safest by a mile.

And how many of those three have ever made a profit?

Just asking.

Loganair - fifty years in the game and in profit for the last decade. Lots of non-discretionary travellers and successfully operating in a niche.

All outbound Emirates flights are topping up with fuel bought in UAE, the stuff is probably cheaper than water. They've got a great route structure with a modern and efficient fleet. They wont be making a loss any time soon.

Quote:
AIMINGHIGH123: The big 3 Middle East carries the safest by a mile.
And how many of those three have ever made a profit?

Just asking.


Well this lot for a start.............






Etihad records first ever full-year profit - FT.com (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/97e853a4-5275-11e1-9f55-00144feabdc0.html)

The SSK, I never said anything about profit just that they are very safe. Well Emitrates we all know about, they help bring a lot of revenue in for Dubai and Qatar is pretty similar, would people go there out of choice? As for Etihad well they had a lot of start up capital they might not like to admit it but come on like the other 2 they could get help a lot easier than our poor european carriers.

All outbound Emirates flights are topping up with fuel bought in UAE, the stuff is probably cheaper than water.

Well, if fuel is cheap in UAE then for Emirates & Etihad only. For everybody else the fuel price there is quite up to the world market, with consideration for less costs on transport and volume.

If you look at Emirates annual accounts, they claim fuel is around 34% within the cost structure, which is about right percentage for any European or US airline. Now the question is whether you really believe Emirates reports?

All outbound Emirates flights are topping up with fuel bought in UAE, the stuff is probably cheaper than water. They've got a great route structure with a modern and efficient fleet. They wont be making a loss any time soon.


NOT TRUE about the fuel I'm afraid.

As a 777 skipper the only flights I can remember tankering on are Tehran and Cairo, which are usually tankering-limited anyway on the old 777-200 non-ER due to residual centre tank fuel with max ZFWs.

Not sure where you got that info from.

Pan American Airlines....definitely safe! :}

The truth is is any one safe? Just because an airline is the biggest, has been around the longest, makes the most money etc. doesn't make it bullet proof. Maybe on paper, but it only takes a major incident or world event to turn the tide.
Aviation history is littered with names of airlines who in their heyday where probably thought to survive the toughest of climates.

Food for thought, an interesting discussion though! :)