uni/degree pilot training

[Swisspilot92]

Hello, I wanted to ask you an advice and I have no idea because the italian system is COMPLETELY different (I am from italy)
I would like to go to University with a pilot-related degree, and I really do not know which degree would be useful in case I won't find a job/I cannot be a pilot for any reason.
I found some courses at Leeds University which are:
- Aviation Technology with pilot studies (3 years) with the possibility to do the pilot licences
- Aviation Technology with management (3 years) ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,,
- Aviation and Aerospace Engineering

University of Loughborough:
- Aviation Engineering BEng (3 years) or MEng (4 years) (Actually I do not know the difference between BEng and Meng)

I found also Brunel University but I don't know if it is a good one!

If you could help me, that would be great!
I say that i do not have (right now and in 2013) 80K£+ to spend for a private flight school such as OAA, etc... (I will try with the BA FPP).
In italy I do not see any future!

PS. I am 20

[Sagit89]

Hello my friend,

This year I graduated from University of Leeds BSc Aviation Technology with Pilot Studies. And I must say it is a brilliant course as is the University. The lecturers were professional, and although the course is still in development and changes every year it stays quite a popular choice. It introduces you to aviation environment quite nicely and although there is no University that prepares you to jobs properly, I find myself that I can talk about a number of things on the interview. It actually does prepare you for the profesionalism of the aviation environment.

But would I recommend it? For a guy like me probably no. Although I am totally satisfied with the course which prepared me in an educational and professional way to start my pilot studies, I still would like to study in University something even more mathematical/technological/engineering. Therefore I would recommend you to go for Aerospace Engineering or something like that. (There is still one at the University of Leeds).

Still BSc Aviation Technology at the University of Leeds is a good choice whatever you choose.

[Dogfactory]

I'm Italian too and I agree with the previous poster: it's better to use the university only for engineering studies to be applied to aeronautics afterwards. For being a pilot it's better to go the straight route, i.e. via a pilot training school.

[mad_jock]

In general if the degree has any form of ATPL ie the theory exams for the pro license its pretty much a low grade faculty approved bit of paper.

To do something usefull in science or engineering you need the degree to be acredited by one of the proffessional institutions like IMechE or the like.

A bachelors degree is either a 3 year/4 year in scotland and isn't suffecient to get Chartered status post gradution and experence.

A masters is 4 years/5 in scotland and is.

The fees in England are extremely high these days for courses you need to sit down and work out what you really want to do. The fees for the degree would cover your CPL and IR.

If you want to do a degree in English, Scotland will be cheaper or Mastrict

[CharlieTangoZulu]

To do something usefull in science or engineering you need the degree to be acredited by one of the proffessional institutions like IMechE or the like.

i'm ignorant in this field, what do you mean by that? does that mean that if the course you're attending is not sponsorized by any institution it won't be very appreciated by any future employer?
i'll hopefully start aeronautical engineering at the glasgow university next year (septmber 2013)

[mad_jock]

Glasgow is not a problem it does have the approprate creditations for what you want to do.

The courses are basically signed off as fit for pupose by an outside body. They have to comply with a minimum standard in regards to content.

None acredited degrees are approved by the University and thats pretty much it. They have no real quality control.

Basically the acredited degree is the first step on the ladder to obtaing the status of "Chartered Engineer" or "Chartered Accountant" etc.

[CharlieTangoZulu]

crystal clear! thanks

[Genghis the Engineer]

As a general rule, a BSc is probably not accredited, but a BEng or MEng probably is. The Royal Aeronautical Society (RAeS) is the usual accrediting body for 'our' community.

I agree with MJ - Scotland is cheaper than England, and the course at Glasgow is very well regarded.

[Swisspilot92]

So thanks guys!
I think i will apply at Glasgow! but my dream is to become an airline pilot...in the summer break could i start the PPL? I wanted to do an Eng programme with pilot studies but i think i will do it on my own!

What do you think? msg me in PM if you would like to..it would be better!:ugh:

[mad_jock]

Its a hard course and will give you little to help you become a pilot academically.

That aside it is a well respected course and you will enjoy Glasgow and uni life. Any engineering degree will train you in problem solving and give you a solid technical background. If engineering interests you go for it. If you are just doing it because you think it will help you become a pilot have another think because it is alot of very hard work if don't like the subject.

There is quite good argument that you can't train an engineer you can only provide an engineer that was born with it the tools to prove what they have a gut feel for anyway.

Nothing stopping you training for a PPL but personally your money would be better spent with some of the other clubs and societys which are there. Why you might ask? Basically so that your CV will have something different on it when it comes to applying for jobs. There are hundreds of pilots out there with virtually the same CV's. The ones that stand out are the ones that the person has gone done scuba diving or VSO or any other group activity. Not everything about going to uni is learning the degree subject there is another significant part of life studies Which for an engineer does include shagging social sciense students on a thursday night in the QM union (don't lower your self down to arts please) and the same with nurses in Clatty pats/sticky vickies if still open.

[Genghis the Engineer]

So thanks guys!
I think i will apply at Glasgow! but my dream is to become an airline pilot...in the summer break could i start the PPL? I wanted to do an Eng programme with pilot studies but i think i will do it on my own!

What do you think? msg me in PM if you would like to..it would be better!:ugh:

I don't follow you.

Your dream is to be an airline pilot, so you're going to go and do 4 years study of engineering, rather than 18-24 month study of flying?

Run that past me again?

[Swisspilot92]

do you know why i want to go to uni? first i like engineering and second because if i do not get any job as a pilot i have the degree! that is important! if you invest in 30.000/50.000£ for pilot training and then you do not get a job..who will repay that? working in a call center won't be enough!!

[Swisspilot92]

what about University of Sheffield (aviation eng. with private pilot instruction)..or there is liverpool uni, brunel and salford....I'd go 4 sheffileld but because I heard good things about it and the course!...

[mad_jock]

your talk 7000 pounds a year for those courses.

In scotland its only 2k a year.

The difference over 4-5 years would be your IR

[Genghis the Engineer]

Sheffield, Salford, Brunel and Liverpool are all good. They will also all attract tuition fees of about £9k per year for a UK or EU student. Glasgow is as good, and a lot cheaper - simply because it's in Scotland.

Okay, a fascination with engineering is a fair reason, but bear in mind that if you do fail to get a flying job 2 years after graduation, your engineering skills won't be all that current and getting a job in that field may be little easier than getting a flying job. That said, adding in all that you'll have learned on your flying course may give you some advantages.

[Scott Duch]

I have just done 3 years of Aero at Glasgow and can tell you it's a fantastic university. The teaching staff are extremely knowledgeable and do a really good job and teaching the various modules.

My dream was always to become a pilot but when I finished secondary school (June 2009) there simply wasn't any jobs or schemes such as BA FPP or Aer Lingus and thus financially, it wasn't a smart move. I went to university thinking the degree in Aero may help in areas (aspects of Flight Mechanics) and also the general life experience living away from home and having to do things such as your own food shopping and washing. Sounds odd but it's all things future employers may look out for as well as the degree required.

The degree was tough and a great challenge but that's what attracted me to the course. But having applied for the BA FPP, Aer Lingus and the FTE MPL scheme and getting right to the final stages in them all, my motivation for engineering declined somewhat knowing I had what it takes to train as a pilot and that the airlines saw great potential in me by forwarding my application through the various stages.

During May of this year I applied to the new CTC/Flybe course and having been invited to the next stages of selection my preparation for the CTC day was greater than the preparation I did for my exams.

Thankfully, I was one of the lucky 6 selected and having passed my summer exams, I now have a BSc in Aero with distinction. It's not accredited and nor can it get you in respectful engineering job but in the end I just had to follow the dream and take this fantastic opportunity with Flybe and CTC.

Some may say I wasted 3 years with university but I have no regrets - there were many experiences I had during uni life that allowed my to shine during the interviews with Flybe and CTC and even some of my 3rd year flight mechanics (taught my India Mike) allowed me to impress the pilot interviewing me on the technical aspects of flying.

My view is that if you really have a passion for engineering go ahead and go for it. But if you have a bigger desire to fly then don't go down the university path, the degree is so demanding that if you're heart just isn't in it any more, you won't do well.

Hopefully this is useful to you coming from someone who was once in your position.

[ABZ777]

The Aviation Technology course at Leeds includes the PPL (subsidised by the university) in your first year. By subsidised I mean I paid £4800 for 45 hours in a PA28 out of Sherburn in 2009, including the PPL skill test (not including examiner fee - £100), and a starter kit. I got my own headset and some additional kit with the spare change. The benefit of doing a PPL this way is you meet some great friends and learn along side other like minded individuals, all of course with the same dreams and ambitions. The whole course was a fantastic experience, both academically and socially (nights out, life skills, living away from home) and I can't recommend it enough - it has certainly given me knowledge and a lot of useful skills for the future.

[KAG]

Swiss pilot: do you know why i want to go to uni? first i like engineering and second because if i do not get any job as a pilot i have the degree! that is important! if you invest in 30.000/50.000£ for pilot training and then you do not get a job..who will repay that? working in a call center won't be enough!!
I don't understand this logic.
If you really want a back up plan, like you write it, then it should be a back up plan!
First get your pilot licence (note I am not encouraging you to be a pilot, we will face an oil shortage in 2015-2020), then look for a job while you do a university degree, that way this is a back up plan. The sooner on the market, the better it is as you cannot predict the economical cycles and hiring periods.

What I would do: keep the money you plan to spend for university, go to north america to get a cheap CPL, then spend a few years in Africa (or other place) to build some turbine time, then see what the world has to offer to you from there No money spent (your salary would have already reimbursed your north ameraican CPL). If you don't like it, go to university this is your back up plan, a real back up plan.
Aviation has to be started young if possible, it is funnier to go around the world at 20 years old.

[Swisspilot92]

kag, i want to go to uni because i do not have enough money to do pilot training at this time. Uni of liverpool "offers" an fATPL course with the aerospace eng. degree (done in the summer break and after graduation) at 38k£.

I do not have money to pay the name of the schools such as OAA, CTC etc...(exception for BA FPP but the amount will be given back)

[KAG]

I understand.

[SingaporeAirlines]

How about doing a degree in an unrelated discipline? Just as a security in case the market goes south? :ok:

[Swisspilot92]

KAG, why an oil shortage? because of the price? the price doesn't count anything...

[Genghis the Engineer]

How about doing a degree in an unrelated discipline? Just as a security in case the market goes south? :ok:

Personally I think that this is a particularly bad idea.

Let's say you do a degree in aeronautical engineering, then go off to do pilot training, it doesn't work out, and you come back into aeronautical engineering. Your CV shows that you have maintained an interest in aeronautics, added skills and knowledge that are relevant to the profession, and may have something that makes you stand out from the crowd of cloned 22 year old fresh graduates.

On the other hand you do a degree in accountancy or zoology, then go and do pilot training, try to come back into your degree subject - you look to have shown no consistent interest in accountancy/zoology, and have probably forgotten the important stuff whilst you were off playing with aeroplanes.

Additionally however, all a degree gives is a fighting chance of entering a graduate profession to start learning. If you want a backup, get a licence or qualification in some saleable skill; cooking, plumbing, lifeguarding.... Something that you can walk into a job with, not into a trainee position - unless that trainee position is into a profession you really want (although, aeronautical engineer is a pretty sexy job on a good day).

[sura95]

Hi all,
I'm 17 and currently studying my A levels and aviation is my passion. I am currently studying towards my PPL as well. I was just wondering whether you advise going to uni and studying a full time degree or just studying abroad towards my ATPL.
I understand there are a couple or threads identical to this but those seem to be a couple of years back so maybe the airline industry has changed a bit? Maybe its easier or harder not to go uni?

Thanks for the advice.

[charliegolf]

Sura,

A few of bits of advice...

Read this forum for 2 hours. Really, 2 hours. Ask yourself what shape the pilot market seems to be in at present.

Only flying schools seem to actually believe that there is/will be a pilot shortage anytime soon. (On that makes a newbie an attractive prospect.)

Lots of university degrees are not looked upon favourably at present, so choose wisely. Sciences, Maths or languages would be my advice.

Be in £30k debt for a degree; or £100k for atpl and no job. Get the degree, and a job, pay cash for the flying.

Finally, they say about gambling: never bet more than you can afford to lose. Can you afford an atpl with no job afterward? That said, it's never for nothing- you will have a load of hours in the bank.

All in all... go to uni. Fly on the side- all the hours count. Good luck.

[sura95]

Hi all,

Thanks for the both of you for taking the time to respond to me. I have looked at the uni route but i understand that there is no point in getting a degree in 'becoming a pilot studies' since it wont provide me with a plan B.

I have decided to try to find an apprenticeship in engineering, then meanwhile I start my ATPL course at a flying school.
Does anyone recommend this?

Thanks.

[Lew747]

I wouldn't say an apprenticeship is a bad thing at all :) I done one in management with Royal Mail after I started as a humble postie in 2008 and allowed me fund all of my PPL, hour building and ATPL theory. First 6 ATPL exams in a fortnight :sad: At the same time I am now working as a delivery office manager with 30-40 people under me and a decent wage for someone my age.

Do I regret not going to Uni? Yes... mainly because of the experience rather than a course I would enjoy doing. At the same time I realise most of my friends are graduating now with approx £20-30k debt and are going back into normal jobs than anyone could do...e.g. retail, call-centre, childcare :ugh: I only know 2 that have secured graduate jobs and one of them is on a poorer wage than I am. :confused:

I realise that it's going to take me another couple of years to have the money together to fund my CPL/IR...but you can only work within your means and i've not got rich parents willing to put the house up.

Best of luck whatever your decision. :ok:

[CuriousNewbie]

Hi all, I'm a 19yr old with a lifelong dream of making it as a pilot. I've checked out the schools e.g CTC/OAA.

However also I've applied to study Economics at Hull university and been accepted.

Recently I stumbled across a different university degree from bucks new university which is with called "Air transport and commercial pilot training." Logically it would seem to be ideal. However over the 3 years it comes out to £80,000 + university debt, but I receive the appropriate licences and clock 250hrs of flying time. The flight training organisation working with the university is CTC and EFT.

So my question is which would you personally choose and why? Also other relevant information would be welcome.

Link for the degree course : Air Transport With Commercial Pilot Training (http://bucks.ac.uk/courses/course/bs2acp1)

[9287Excellent]

I was on the former Kingston and Cabair University course, Aviation Studies with Commercial Pilot Training is its full title. I understand this is being continued with BCFT in Bournemouth, where I'm finishing my flight training. The course has been pretty good, I wasn't as impressed with the final year at the university in Kingston, but this has since changed based on our years' feedback and I understand they have improved it a lot, might be worth considering. The only thing to bare in mind is the first two years are done down in Bournemouth at the flying school, including the university exams. After the 2 years you get a foundation degree with the third year, top-up year, resulting in a batchelors degree.
We did our PPLs in the January of the first year and the commercial stuff you can either do in the break between finishing year 2 and starting year 3 or after year 3.
I know a few guys from the year above us and one guy from our year has gone to Cathay Pacific and one of the requirements was that he had to have passed the degree, so some airlines seem to require it, some not so bothered.

[CuriousNewbie]

Hi excellent, I've found a similar course to yours at Bucks new Uni. Would you recommend it? Were your flying hours funded or private funded by yourself? Is it worth it?

Thanks

[pudoc]

Go to the uni you've been excepted to and then go to a modular route. I personally would scrap uni all together...but that's just me.

[CuriousNewbie]

I think I'll get my Economics degree. Then after that pursue my Pilot training, at least then I'll have a backup plan.

[sura95]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the advice once again. I have decided to go to uni but do a degree in either engineering or psychology! While im doing that ill continue with my ATPL privately. Decided i needed a back up!

Thanks,