Missed Flight - Possible Refund?

[betterfromabove]

Due to getting stuck in two ENORMOUS traffic jams, one in Lucerne, the second around the Zurich ring-road on Thu PM, a 4h30 road journey across the heart of Switzerland from Zermatt became a 7h30 nightmare.....and meant we missed our flight from ZRH to LCY on BA at 19h10.

All the while, we try and raise BA by just about every means we can think off....while burning up the ££'s on mobile's (when we can get reception that is). But we can reach no-one, despite 20 mins sessions of calling CS, Exec Club, the works.

When we eventually stagger into the airport, the BA checkins are all closed and we queue at their ticketing office to be told by the polite and friendly lady that she can do nothing for us, as we are effectively "no-shows" and we'll need to stump up something of the order of £300-£700 to get home in the next 24-48 hours.

Ended up buying 2x£300 BA and EasyJet tix just to get home as was given no other choice.

Understand there is only the vaguest chance of a refund through travel insurance, but would have to get the local authorities to give some kind of evidence of the local traffic situation at the time. Not holding out too much hope there.

Has anyone else been in this situation?

Realise is not strictly BA's problem in the first place, but we ended up forking out for new tickets due to the difficulty of getting hold of them. And why the incessant reminders to "go online"?!? (the last thing you want to do while moving about abroad and that's if you can get a connection at all....) :rolleyes:

Interestingly, several airport staff told me that this is a "recession thing"...in the old days, if were polite and genuine, they would have simply put you on the next available seat (remember experiencing that myself in the past), but not any more, it's "process ahead of humans....". Any truth in that I wonder?

PS. Well, two bankers, who played their part in creating the recession in the first place, behind us in the queue, and who had also been stuck in the traffic, just quipped "hey, it's only £700, what's the problem?" Enough said....:ugh:

[renfrew]

Yes,in the past we would have tried to help in that sort of situation.If there were seats free on a later flight we would have rebooked without charge.
We probably were too easygoing in those days but our initiative was then steadily removed and we were ordered to charge for absolutely everything.

[frontcheck]

Was it BA or handling agent staff?
If handling agent, then their hands are tied and they have no
authority to bend the rules. If BA's own staff they may have been able to
us the value of the ticket as a credit towards the new fare but this is not
normally done if the flight has departed.
If BA have changed your ticket free of charge in the past it may have been because the flight you were on was overbooked and it was in their interests to do so.

[PAXboy]

In my view it is about recession but also about shareholder expectation. Nowadays, CEOs have to work for the shareholder first and the customer second. Dang the crazy old idea that, if you look after the customer, the customer will look after you and your shareholder!

The not being able to make phone contact is all of the same issue. Whether they might have made some concession to you on the phone - no one can say. But not talking to you is cheaper, hence anytime you phone any company, you no longer listen to muzak but the endless repetition of the website. The fact that you are only ringing them because you spent 20 minutes on the website NOT finding the answer ... Certainly, in your circumstances, the web site would have given no help at all. it was a phone call or nothing and each time your cell/mobile dropped the signal - naturally you lost your place in the queue.

It is bad luck and I do sympathise but you can expect no mercy from anyone these days. To save repetition, read my comment (post #4) in another thread on this forum BA cost of pre assigned seats in WTP (http://www.pprune.org/BA%20cost%20of%20pre%20assigned%20seats%20in%20WTP) just yesterday,

[betterfromabove]

Hi - PPRUNE always astonishes me! What a great and informed set of answers, thanks everyone.

It was a handling agent at ZRH. Very friendly and was making a good effort at least of trying to help, but both we spoke to used exactly the phrase mentioned, i.e. "our hands are tied". They had very limited ability to help us.

Yes, PAXboy, agree that this kind of experience is ultimately self-defeating. For those of us who travel a good deal, the stories about particular airline experiences do the rounds pretty quick and while most people have no idea what plane they're flying on, they certainly DO remember who the airline was (even if it's a code-share and actually operated by someone else). What I mean by that is that the strong brand in the airline world can count against them in these sorts of situations.

Airline tickets these days represent a fair amount of expenditure for certain businesses and individuals and one experience like this can make you quickly put an airline on your personal black-list (mine currently includes EJ, RYR, AF).

Shame, because largely BA are a far more pleasurable company to fly with than any of their competitors. However, the CS have never been too brilliant with dealing with the unusual (delays, LHR limitations, seating issues...).

[ExXB]

Ah, next time take Swiss via GVA. Just over 3 1/2 hours by road, slightly less by train. Swiss still have humans at the end of phone, although the call is not free (CHF1.50 a minute), I think.

[west lakes]

Just a little point if it was ZRH to LCY, it would have been BA Cityflier who though a wholly owned subsidiary, are not actually BA and will be controlled by a completely different management structure

[PAXboy]

Yes indeed, west lakes, but not to the client or most of those who hear the story! If looks like BA and smells like BA? They might have a different call sign and IATA/ICAO codes but they wear the livery.

My guess is that Citiflyer is there for financial accounting reasons but, whether that is true or not, they will do what BA main board tells them. My (further) guess is that they will have the same operating instructions as main line.

[Alsacienne]

Ah, next time take Swiss via GVA

.......... or even ZRH to LCY with Swiss ...

Nice to know the possibilities but that wouldn't help the OP, BA and LX not being in the same 'family' group and not being in the habit of extending reciprocal favours ...

[Hipennine]

Ahem,

Zermatt to ZRH via Lucerne, not exactly the most direct route, and 4 and a half hours might be a tad optimistic for that route ?

Why drive - you have to get the train in and out of Zermatt, so why not all the way (it's also quicker).

[Avionker]

How did BA let you down?

You had a contract with them and you failed to fulfil your part of the contract by turning up at the airport on time.

You missed your flight.

Now whilst you can argue that it was due to circumstances beyond your control, likewise the traffic jams were not due to BAs actions or inactions were they? Purely and simply you failed to turn up on time to catch your flight.

Stop blaming BA.

[Hotel Tango]

Of course I don't know your personal circumstances and reason to undertake such a road trip with what seemed like little buffer time. Nevertheless, I would haven't risked it - especially in the evening rush hour. There can be horrendous jams in and around most large cities in the morning and evening rushes and I take that well into account with my planning. One of my "local" airports (Brussels) is just over one hour's drive away from my home. It only takes a little bump on the motorway in the rush hour and bingo the travel time doubles or even trebbles. If on flex tickets no problem but on cheapos you have to build in a good buffer to avoid expensive surprises. I even fork out for a nearby hotel if necessary when on flights departing in the 0800-0930band.

[SeenItAll]

As pointed out, the flight was missed. But the key issue isn't why the flight was missed -- it is that the passenger earnestly TRIED to contact BA to indicate that the flight would be missed, but BA remained incommunicado -- thus permitting it to keep all the value of the ticket.

I would try to collect evidence from your cell phone's call history to demonstrate that you tried mightily to contact BA, but BA wouldn't answer the phone. Then write a polite letter to BA providing them with this evidence (possibly mentioning the traffic jam) and request whether they couldn't at least give you a refund in the amount that your ticket would have been worth if you had been able to notify BA that you were going to miss the flight.

I wouldn't hold my breath on a favorable answer, but by doing this you are giving BA the opportunity to take responsibility and "to do the right thing." Good luck!

[Avionker]

I concede that the OP says that they attempted to phone BA, but on which number? According to the BA website the number that they should have phoned is 0848 845 845. Was this number tried?

If the OP had gone on-line they may have been able to change their booking, but they didn't want to as it is too expensive. Probably not 600 quid which is what they forked out in the end for replacement flights, but there you go.

Why not give up the futile exercise of trying to get to the airport and find somewhere to get on-line? An internet cafe or something of that ilk. Surely at some point the OP must have realised that they were not going to make it...

Another option would have been to call someone they trusted, who was at home or at work, and ask them to go on-line for them.

Was the OP holding a flex ticket?

If not the whole discussion is moot, no changes are allowed and you agree to that at the time of booking. If it was a flex ticket then a visit to the website, selection of 'Manage my Booking', and stump up the change fee might well have done the trick.

[pzu]

Long story, but according to BAEC difficulties in contacting Call Centre recently are ALL BMI's fault!!!

And that was before they knew I was calling about a BMI/BA changeover problem

for info they do have a FREEPHONE number for UK 08005977580

[TightSlot]

I've changed the Thread Title to something more neutral. The implication of the previous title " BA let us down....." was somewhat one-sided.

[ExXB]

Hi Tight Slot,

I think your new title takes the thread off-topic. The OP was expressing their dismay that despite valiant (or whatever) attempts they had been unable to contact their airline.

I too have felt frustration with this particular airline's methods of contacting them, such as being emailed on the eve of a strike and being told to call them at a UK freephone number, inaccessible from outside the UK. They knew I was not in the UK (as I had flown to my ME destination with them a few days before). Once I had found a number (all their Executive lines simply had a recording to call the regular number) I was put on hold and never managed to connect. My bill for that was over CHF200 (yes, I was calling from my hotel room, I wasn't going to use my mobile) which they subsequently declined to compensate me for. I finally got through to their local office which had no instructions from LON and refused to interline me home, They booked me on the previous day (meaning I lost a day of leave) back via LHR. At the airport I learned that my connecting flight out of LHR had been cancelled. After standing-by I finally got on the last flight before the strike. I was one of their 'Gold Card' members at that time. I never bought another ticket from them, I burned through my miles and have parted company with them. I won't bore you any further with my attempts to seek redress other than to say their service recovery was awful.

This company has a history of being difficult to get in touch with and, in my view, let me down badly - to their loss.

I think they should be named and shamed.

[wowzz]

To be fair to BA, a few years ago I missed a flight to the US from LHR, after having being stuck on the M4 for 3 hours due to a major pile-up which involved the use of the air-ambulance.
On arrival at LHR, and having a non-flexible ticket, I expected the worst, but the BA ticket agent simply put me on the next flight later that day [at no cost], commenting that many other pax had suffered delays for the same reason.
Perhaps the fact that I was dealing with BA personnel and also that this was 7 or 8 years ago might have helped on this occasion.

[ExXB]

Well, Squeezy seems to have found a way to make money out of this: Missed flight insurance introduced for easyJet passengers | Money | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/jul/12/missed-flight-insurance-cover-easyjet)

Wonder if it will be extended to the network airlines. BarSteward Airlines could turn this into a revenue stream.

[Evanelpus]

How did BA let you down?

You had a contract with them and you failed to fulfil your part of the contract by turning up at the airport on time.

You missed your flight.

Now whilst you can argue that it was due to circumstances beyond your control, likewise the traffic jams were not due to BAs actions or inactions were they? Purely and simply you failed to turn up on time to catch your flight.

Stop blaming BA.

A perfect summation of the situation.

Your only hope is that BA, somehow, develop a bit of compassion for your plight but I wouldn't hold my breath if I was you.

[ExXB]

Evanelplus,
Did you actually read the OP? He said:

Realise is not strictly BA's problem in the first place, but we ended up forking out for new tickets due to the difficulty of getting hold of them. And why the incessant reminders to "go online"?!? (the last thing you want to do while moving about abroad and that's if you can get a connection at all....)

"Due to the difficulty of getting hold of them" was the reason given why he believed BA had let him down.

I too have been challenged getting in touch with them, after receiving an e-mail while I was in the UAE, to call them on their toll free number (only accessible in the UK) to deal with them cancelling my flight, without protecting me on interline carriers (as they promised the media they were doing). They shut off access to all the Exec club lines and could not deal with the number of callers on their regular line. Their local UAE offices had no instructions from LON either. I'll repeat myself, BA let me down. To their loss.

[betterfromabove]

Well, I seemed to have sparked off some interesting debate....thanks for the stories and the thoughts.

To clarify prelude to missing flight:
- Mode and timing of transport from Zermatt were not my preferred option. Suggested driving time was actually given to us by the hotel manager in Zermatt who was hosting us and does trip regularly.
- Agree didn't give much buffer-time, but we were completely within schedule before (i) took marginally longer Lucerne branch of motorway by mistake (ii) hit 2 hour standstill at Lucerne due to accident (iii) further 1 hour of near standstill around Zurich motorway
- No option to use internet cafe en route: were either in mountains or on a motorway and made no sense to leave it
- Remember we were in central Switzerland with UK phones....constant tunnels, overpasses, mountains....reception even to phone was patchy and 3G ($$$) slow, intermittent or simply non-existent.

In terms of BA's response:
- Agree that there may be a number of reasons someone may miss a flight, but BA's lack of interactivity means that if such a scenario develops and you are on the move or simply out of digital contact then they are assured of pocketing a replacement ticket (if non-flexible)
- Why don't they supply a local contact number with your e-ticket?
- They may make more money out of not picking up the phone, but eventually that will lead to disgruntled pax and lowering of reputation and brand.
- It was the Exec Club number we phoned as it was the only one I had stored on my phone for them.
- Maybe it just comes down to BA focus their CS on Business/First...it's where the money is and it's where they need to be careful (so they think...) in terms of who they're dealing with. They forget business travel deciders also travel coach from time to time....

In terms of the Swiss Transport Authorities response:
- Got a nice official letter from them today confirming a 2 hour standstill at Lucerne due an accident in the motorway tunnel and that there was severe congestion all around the Zurich ring road.....seriously impressive.
- Will now be forwarding this to the travel insurance company to try to get a refund for our tix. Some debate on whether this will work, but it's the sensible thing to do.

Lessons learned:
- Usually do it, but try to be based near airport on day before leaving. Simple but effective.
- Europe is becoming unbelievably clogged around every urban centre. Assume the worst on the roads in such areas.
- Fly Swiss.
- Take note of local CS numbers before leaving.

[Tableview]

In terms of the Swiss Transport Authorities response:
- Got a nice official letter from them today confirming a 2 hour standstill at Lucerne due an accident in the motorway tunnel and that there was severe congestion all around the Zurich ring road.....seriously impressive.

And typically Swiss. I missed a flight out of ZRH once when my taxi was stuck due to an accident between a tram and a :mad:-cyclist. The airline (Swiss) re-acced me on a later flight but I incurred further expenses down-route as a result and against the letter from the Cantonal Police the insurance company reimbursed me.

[KBPsen]

It seems to me that the OP is being somewhat less than forthright.

There is still no indication of the type of tickets. Which leads you to think it was a non-refundable, non-changeable tickets.

First it was;

"All the while, we try and raise BA by just about every means we can think off....while burning up the ££'s on mobile's (when we can get reception that is). But we can reach no-one, despite 20 mins sessions of calling CS, Exec Club, the works."

Now it is;

"It was the Exec Club number we phoned as it was the only one I had stored on my phone for them."

and;

"Remember we were in central Switzerland with UK phones....constant tunnels, overpasses, mountains....reception even to phone was patchy and 3G ($$$) slow, intermittent or simply non-existent."

[Hipennine]

"It seems to me that the OP is being somewhat less than forthright."

Indeed :
"Remember we were in central Switzerland with UK phones....constant tunnels, overpasses, mountains....reception even to phone was patchy and 3G ($$$) slow, intermittent or simply non-existent."

If the first hold up occurred near Lucerne, where are these constant tunnels, overpasses and mountains on the way to Zurich by motorway ? The alps are being left behind on that route.

I generally find that my UK 3G phone gets much better reception travelling around Switzerland than in the UK, and that includes a constant signal going through motorway tunnels.

And I would imagine that with a non-flexible ticket, BA's response assuming contact was achieved would be pretty much "OK, thanks for letting us know", just as it would be from any other airline.

I'm not BA's biggest fan at all when it comes to their CS attitudes, but I don't think its fair to lay blame on them because your phone doesn't work particularly well.

[L'aviateur]

It seems that everyone is brainwashed by the corporate 'No customer service, no discretion to our staff' mentally that seems to exist.

Being able to talk to someone without holding for more then 10 minutes should be a legal requirement for large corporations, with penalties for exceeding this.

The ability for staff to make a decision outside the 'corporate greed' rules should be given to staff on the ground.

Sadly, regardless of which airline you fly with you can pretty much expect the same service. It goes for pretty much any big corporation now.

I honestly believe that most big corporations actually hate their staff, and hate their customers. They have mission to make money and customers and employees get in the way of that.

END RANT

[betterfromabove]

Hipeninne - The downside to starting to discuss a specific on PPRUNE of course is that you risk plunging into the details before too long, but that's the price for advice and informed discussion I s'pose....

The poor reception was experienced during the original hold-up approaching, passing and leaving Lucerne, which took over 2 hours and if you know the road there is a winding stretch of motorway through tunnels (one of which we spent most of the 2 hours in....) and surrounded by mountains.

Anyway, this just made our job harder......

When we had reception we phoned BA CS and got nowhere.

And I was not alone in the car. If it had been crawling traffic and I'd be alone then strictly speaking I shouldn't have been on the phone at all. And the hard shoulder....? That was being used as a rat run by emergency services and chancers.

Point is airline doesn't need chapter and verse, they need to ask themselves what the point of customer service is in the first place.

[KBPsen]

The downside to starting to discuss a specific on PPRUNE of course is that you risk plunging into the details before too longHow is that a downside? Without details it is not possible to get a full and accurate picture of what actually occurred. When details change significantly and there is a reluctance to provide them in the first pace, it appears as if there is an attempt to leave an impression of what occurred that is not quite in accordance with what actually happened.

This thread is also a good example of how critical thinking and reading often goes out the window when there is an opportunity to have biases confirmed.

[Hipennine]

Betterfromabove - I know where you mean, so can appreciate the connection problems.

Nevertheless, unless you were on a fully flexible ticket, I don't think thateven if you had got through to BA, you would have had any better outcome. People who go on about the days when ground staff had the "discretion" to provide a different service, are talking about a different commercial world when airline fares were in real terms far more expensive,with far more fat to allow discretion. The walk up fares of £300 you ended up paying would have been closer to £600 in real terms when staff had that sort of discretion.

If you think BA are bad, I've recently had an experience with KLM where I had to cancel a Transatlantic non-flexible flight. No problem financially, because well-insured. However, KLM firstly denied any liability to refund taxes (but finally got them), and then I couldn't get any evidence from them that the sectors weren't flown for the insurance claim. Eventually I challenged the insurance company to do any better, but after 2 months they gave up as well and made a without prejudice payment. I hope that you have an easier time with BA !

[Flyer70]

Have just read this in Breaking Travel News easyJet to offer Missed Flight Cover to passengers

[/URL] [URL="http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/article/easyjet-to-offer-missed-flight-cover-to-passengers/#"]3 (http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/article/easyjet-to-offer-missed-flight-cover-to-passengers/#)
3 days ago
http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/images/sized/images/uploads/airline/easyjet_planes-250x167.jpg
In a new agreement with Mondial Assistance, No Exclusions will offer UK customers of easyJet the opportunity to purchase Missed Flight Cover.
Missed Flight Cover enables an airline passenger to continue on their journey, with an immediate option (at the airport) of a new ticket on the next available flight at no additional cost, or the choice of a full flight refund.
Recent consumer research commissioned by No Exclusions identifies that a significant proportion of travellers have an inherent fear of missing their flight.
Last month an independent survey (conducted by One Poll June 2012) also highlighted passenger concern about arriving on time at the airport, with 71 per cent of respondents claiming to sleep restlessly, or not at all, before a morning flight.
Across the UK, an average 43 per cent of passengers say they will even consider staying at an airport hotel in order to alleviate this travel stress before flying.
New Missed Flight Cover should make their worries a thing of the past, offering a practical solution should passengers miss their flight.
With a completely unique approach to claims handling, passengers are offered immediate assistance at the airport, at no additional cost.
The policy is simple to understand, with no exclusions, excesses or claims paperwork.
It also covers the cost of any flight related services such as reserved seating, speedy boarding, hold luggage, credit card and booking fees.
Simply by registering their claim at the airline Sales Desk at the airport within four hours after the (missed) flight’s scheduled departure, the policyholder will receive immediate assistance to re-book their flight or obtain a refund.
Missed Flight Cover is available at just £7.50 single flight or £9.50 return, alongside a flight booking on easyJet.com.
Andrew Lothian, No Exclusions’ chief executive commented: “We are extremely proud to have designed and developed Missed Flight Cover and are thrilled that easyJet will be the first airline to launch the policy.
“We believe it provides an innovative and effective solution to a proven passenger concern and are confident that uptake will prove popular.”
st read this.

[AlpineSkier]

@Flyer70

You should have read post #19

[sammyg901]

I've been transferred a few times with BA to the next available flight with non-flex and even Avios tickets. Either free of charge or with a £60 fee, both at Heathrow and at outstations, so it doesn't seem to be a blanket rule. Though on all occasions flights have been very quiet - can't imagine they'd be so generous at peak times.

I like Easyjet's rule - arrive within 2hrs after departure and they'll "rescue" your ticket for about 50 quid confirmed onto the next available flight. Not exactly cheap but at least you aren't relying on discrection. Combined with their free space-available move to an earlier flight home they are usually my carrier of choice on my short european hops these days