Is the Farnborough air show open to the public on "trade" days?

[peterh337]

I see the tickets are being sold for £30 (http://farnborough.com/visitors/trade-buy-trade-passes) but it should be a helluva less crowded, the toilets might not have 10mm of ***** on the floor (aaaah, the memories of the show from the heyday of the 1980s :yuk: ) and there should be more to see because many exhibitors more or less pack up before the normal public days.

Is it necessary to wear a white blanket and a scarf?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Wear a suit and take a pocket full of business cards, but basically yes. The air display will be less impressive, but the overall experience is much more civilised.

G

[peterh337]

Are you serious about the suit?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Maybe it's just me - I grew up at the Royal Aircraft Establishment where it was clearly understood that if you wanted to be taken seriously, you wore a suit, and that is generally still the view in the aerospace engineering industry that the SBAC show is all about.

So me, I'd wear a suit, yes. I'm not going this year, but that has always been my custom and practice there, at Helitech, and at Paris. The same view seems to be taken by most of the other aviation grown-ups.

Corporate polo shirts are probably the next best thing if you don't mind being taken for a lab-tech or scientist.

A quick google only found one photograph of people going into the trade show. It does seem to support my opinion, the only person I can see in the shot not wearing a suit is selling programmes...

http://www.ursulasweeklywanders.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/IMG_3433-Edit1.jpg

G

[peterh337]

I don't have a suit anymore :eek:

[Genghis the Engineer]

Own a suit, versus queue 2 hours for a pee or a hotdog. Tough call.

G :p

[Duchess_Driver]

I don't have a suit anymore

Hatches, Matches, Dispatches and ....er....corporate events!

(And a good suit carrier for those long periods inbetween! :ok:)

[maxred]

Tie, or open neck shirt? Please God tell me the Safari suit has been binned:cool:

[Genghis the Engineer]

To be fair, I think that you can get away with not wearing a tie if you must nowadays.

G

[what next]

Hi!

As long as you don't want to sell anything, you can go to Farnborough and Le Bourget on any day wearing whatever you like. Been there at least ten times since 1982 (more often to Paris than to F'boro) as engineering student, pilot and co-owner of an air taxi outfit. I never have worn a suit in all my life, never owned one. They want to sell you aeoplanes, not fashion!

[maxred]

To be fair, I think that you can get away with not wearing a tie if you must nowadays.

When I first started work, it was as a Duty Clerk/Management trainee with a large Spirits company.This circa 1973. 1800 quid per annum, and that was a pretty good salary. We had to wear full suit, three piece.

The office manager, a particular type of creature, ruled the office like a Sergeant Major. Every afternoon, he used to go through to the Managing Directors office, come back, and state that the Managing Director had decreed it was warm, and we may loosen our ties:hmm:

Oh my God how times have changed............

For the worse I reckon, never did any of us any harm, binned the suits a while ago though, Ghengis

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'm quite happy in jeans and a t-shirt in the right place, but I really cannot grasp why so many people object nowadays to putting in a little effort to look smart?

G

[peterh337]

Gosh at this rate you will be expecting them to be able to write more than one line without making several grammatical errors ;)

If I wanted to improve society I would ban

- smartphones
- f a c e b o o k
- t w i t t e r

and then today's youngsters would have a chance of making some real friends.

The reason I don't wear a suit is because it is so damn uncomfortable.

[Genghis the Engineer]

The reason I don't wear a suit is because it is so damn uncomfortable.

Which implies to me that you had very cheap or poorly fitting suits.

G

[The500man]

Why spend good flying money on a tailored suit when you can get some old rags from Tesco? Most of us, I bet, would rather spend more time in an aeroplane than in a suit? ;)

[bucket_and_spade]

I'm a pilot and am visiting on the Friday (I'm working Saturday and Sunday). If it's sunny I'll be wearing shorts and a t-shirt, if it's not so sunny I'll be wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

I'm not there to sell or buy anything - just to look around, watch the show, chat to some people, etc.! Suit not required in my case.

Plus it's 'Enthusiasts Day' so I imagine some fairly nerdily-attired spotters will be in attendance! ;)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I really cannot grasp why so many people object nowadays to putting in a little effort to look smart?
Because it's uncomfortable (quite apart from the cost)?

[Jan Olieslagers]

I can only second GtE's point of view: a welldone suit, even three piece, can be quite comfortable. Especially if one is past one's prime youth and no more exactly slim. And no, it isn't always cheap, but good quality lasts a long while, to make up for that.

Must also admit I enjoy dressing old-style since I found a good deal of appreciation for it in the fair sex... Not when I go flying, admittedly, but all the more at the office. Ties are over the top though, I am already embarrassed by the amount of first-time visitors who take ME for the team-lead or even for the manager, on behalf of my occasional smart suit.

[what next]

One can dress "smartly" without wearing a suit. The most welcome visitors at the Farnborough air show/trade fair usually don't wear suits and ties ;) :

http://www.selectfactoring.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/branson2.jpg

or

http://www.luxuo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Airbus-A380-prince-Alwaleed-bin-Talal.jpg

and another one who enjoys shopping trips to Farnborough (but refuses to even wear a uniform when at the controls...):

http://www.flyniki.com/site/affiliate/flyniki/nikiworld/linienpilot/NikiLauda_Cockpit.jpg

[abgd]

Dress aside, what will there be to interest a member of the public who can't stretch to a private A380? Not to mention my girlfriend. We've both got tickets for the Friday already.

I was assuming, rightly or wrongly, that there wouldn't be much in the way of GA specific stands, which is fine. I guess I'm worrying about wasting my time and the time of exhibitors, who at the end of the day are there to sell stuff to people with money - not to not sell stuff to people who don't have money.

I shall probably not wear a suit, to avoid giving out misleading signals.

[what next]

Not to mention my girlfriend.

Farnborough is a bit "defence heavy" I'm afraid. If your girlfriend has no special interest in air-to-air missiles and anti-tank ammunition she will not really enjoy herself there... I once took my wife along to Le Bourget many years ago. A mistake I am not going to repeat. And Le Bourget is maybe 50% defence, 40% civilian (10% of that GA) and 10% space technology. Farnborough is 90% defence alone...

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I guess I'm worrying about wasting my time and the time of exhibitors, who at the end of the day are there to sell stuff to people with money - not to not sell stuff to people who don't have money.
If there's one thing worse than chatting to people on your trade show stand who aren't going to buy, it's having nobody on the stand at all.

Provided you make it clear you aren't buying, people running stands will normally be quite happy to chat to you when there are no real buyers in prospect, so long as you evaporate smartly when a real punter wanders into view!

[goldeneaglepilot]

No, G has it right.

I am off this morning to get the Armani suit back from the dry cleaners, I have purchased a new tin of Parade Gloss for the Church's and my Dege-Skinnershirt is freshly laundered, collar starched and ready to go. My Como tie is looking good and ready to go. I am looking forward to Farnborough.

Mind you, in the past I have seen some serious players appear at a stand, without formal attire (dressed in Jeans and T Shirt) and get some fantastic attention and hospitality after producing a piece of plastic (about the size of a credit card) with the magical words "MOD - Unrestricted" on it, no company, no rank, just their name, a photo and a few simple words...

In short, it matters more at Farnborough about who you are rather than how you are dressed.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Not sure which is worst, a naff off-the-peg armani suit, or somebody waving a fictional MoD document about.

You really believe anybody with any credibility at MoD would turn up to Farnborough in anything other than a suit or a uniform?

Of course if you really are Tom Cruise or Richard Branson, then you are recognisable as important and very rich. For the rest of us, a little effort to smarten up shows respect to the people you're dealing with. It's just how it is in the heavy metal industry.

G

[goldeneaglepilot]

a naff off-the-peg armani suit

You have never owned one then G.... The off the peg is significantly better than Burton's and the made to measure range exceptional

somebody waving a fictional MoD document

Strange - the people I have seen with them never seemed to have any hassle getting into the "invitation" only areas or the better hospitality chalets, rather than visiting the burger van!! Same seemed to apply at other shows such as Securisec..

:):):)

[Contacttower]

Does anyone know how many Friday tickets they have sold to the public?

[peewit]

If you are visiting Farnborough to see the air display, it is hard to beat this viewing point.
http://www.peewit.co.uk/IMG_0832.JPG
No traffic, no queues, no cost, and no suit required.

Peewit

[Genghis the Engineer]

Swan Inn?

G

[BEagle]

Well, I will be going as a trade visitor on a trade day.

My online application required 'approval' before it would be accepted, so I don't know how anyone who isn't a genuine trade visitor will be able to obtain a ticket for the non-public days - except by lying.

Collar and tie, jacket if it's not too warm. I have a few people to visit; unfortunately I'll need a laptop for some of the day. But I'll probably leg it back to the car park and escape early, rather than leave with the madding crowd at the end of the flying display.

[peewit]

Nope.
It is a hilltop just at the south end of the runway.
Park in a Bourley Road car park, or on the side of the road if you arrive late.
A bit of a walk through Army land (public access is allowed, or at least it was at the weekend two years ago) to the best seat in the house. If the wind was in the north it could spoil things.
http://www.peewit.co.uk/IMG_0833.JPG

Peewit

[abgd]

Members of the public can buy tickets for Friday which is a trade day. I bought two without lying, and our badges give our non-aviation related professions on them.

Still be glad of suggestions on what to see.

[Windy Militant]

If you get bored you could always go to the LAA Youth and Education Support stand and make some paper aeroplanes. ;)
Yes Flyers - Youth & Education Support (http://yesflyers.squarespace.com/)

[peterh337]

I was able to buy a ticket for Friday.

It asks "mandatory" questions about the company name etc. Fairly obviously you can just make something up...

[jez d]

To be fair, I think that you can get away with not wearing a tie if you must nowadays.

G


I presume the bow tie will be on parade though, G ?

[Genghis the Engineer]

No tie will be on display this year, of any shape - I'm on holiday somewhere reasonably sunny and I hope entirely Olympic free. Missing the Olympics seems a reasonable bonus for the annoyance of missing Farnborough.

G

[abgd]

If there's an LAA stand then I shall certainly go to that. Never been to an arms fair before so shall enjoy recounting the experience to shock my friends.

[Windy Militant]

abgd,
I've just checked the diary and they'll be there from Friday with the RAes/ Boeing build a plane project. Yately school near Farnborough is one of the groups taking part.
Boeing in the UK: Schools Build a Plane Challenge (http://www.boeing.co.uk/ViewContent.do?id=41663)

I think they'll have one of the previously completed aircraft on show and I did hear mention of a couple of pedal planes being taken along. :ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

I don't think it's really accurate to think of it as an arms fair - although certainly there will be weapons on display.

Farnborough is about two things: aerospace and money. That the show was originally organised by the "Society of British Aircraft Constructors" tells you a lot about that, although it's a lot of years since things had to be British to be on display at the SBAC (now Society of British Aerospace Companies) show.

Clearly both flying machines, and things for shooting either at or from them, fall into that double category. But, you'll find in the trade exhibition a massive range of "stuff" that also does that: flying clothing, jet engines, rivets, crashproof seats, hangars, insurance, avionics - absolutely anything you can think of, and much you can't. The only really common factor is that the more expensive things are, the more likely they are to be at Farnborough. There's not a lot of room for cheap aviation, and not many opportunities to buy things and take them home with you. There will be massive numbers of opportunities however to take home brochures about things you will never be able to afford.

G

[peterh337]

I went today (Friday).

It was full of casual people, and loads of kids on school trips.

The indoor stuff, which I did 100%, was OK but basically same as every other time. Aerospace companies, and aerospace component/material suppliers. Interesting to an "engineer" :)

The outdoor stuff was much thinner than on previous shows. Very few aircraft on the ground to look at.

I am not into air displays but saw the A380 - an ugly monster which "anybody" could have built if they were given a brief to build a bigger jumbo than anybody else had done before. It was doing impressive slow speed flying, made possible not by pilot skills but by the computer holding it right on the very edge of the stall and the pilot only needs to pull the stick all the way back :)

The car parks were far away, with free buses laid on. This worked well, but only because the crowds were thin. Catering was good too.

Lots of black limos driving VIPs round the place :)

[BEagle]

I went yesterday to talk with a potential customer on board his aeroplane - and the hospitality was superb without being over the top. Then across to the exhibition halls which were virtually empty. I've never seen Farnborough so quiet.

An hour on board the A400M Atlas was good though - it has a superb flight deck and some extremely clever attention to detail in the cargo bay.

But the weather was utterly miserable, so I didn't bother to nose around the A380 (which is an ugly looking thing - the AirSlug) as I was getting drenched. I'd been advised not to go by car, because the car parks were in danger of becoming swamps. But the train journey to North Camp was very easy, with a return ticket only £17.30 from Didcot. Then a free shuttle bus from North Camp to the show, which was great. But there was absolutely no shelter at the bus stop for people taking the bus back to the station, so everyone stood there getting bl**dy soaked.... An unforgiveable omission!

The flying display yesterday was very brief. But I want a Gripen for Christmas!

[peterh337]

I thought the distant car parks (easy to get in and out of) and the free shuttle buses, were a good piece of organisation, but to be fair this worked only because there were so few visitors.

I have visited very sporadically over the last 30 years but my impression is that the organisers have milked the show mercilessly over that time period, and this has driven the decline, which was slow because the show runs only every 2 years.

In the 1980s the place was heaving, had absolutely crap facilities, toilets with 0.5" of liquid crap on the floor (had to be careful walking in sandals). Back then people tolerated such stuff a lot more but I think most people would have thought twice about going back - especially with kids. So downhill it went.

But I bet the real money is made on selling exhibition space, and that was pretty well sold out. Russia bought a big chunk of it :)

[abgd]

Well, we went yesterday. I bought an Armani suit specially, but nobody seemed to take us seriously, possibly because we had the smallest baby in Farnborough strapped to the front of it, and milk-stains down the back. All the arms dealers were queueing up to Coochi-Coo him.

Saw disappointingly little of the display stands - by the time we'd looked at half the stuff outside it was time for the flying displays. I did get the impression though that members of the public outnumbered traders. I had figured that the 'public on trade day' special was probably intended to cover otherwise sparse attendance.

Enjoyed the GAPAN stall, some of the space stalls, and the university drones and demonstrators, but somehow managed to come home without any samples of anything and generally got the impression that a lot of the stands were pretty unimaginative. Why sprinkle simulators around if you don't let people have a go on them? Spaceship 2 would be a case in point - the best they could do was to dress up every child who went through in a Richard Branson beard and moustache, before trying to sell them internet packages. There were no cockpits or cabins you could sit in. No simulators to crash. No technical or construction details. They didn't even make the information brochures look like airline tickets.

Enjoyed the flying displays, particularly the Vulcan, A380 and the piston aerobatics. Not so much the fast jets - I had my fingers in baby's ears and there were none left for my own. Besides, there's not so much you can do in a fast jet with a low cloudbase other than sharp turns. Not that it bothered baby who slept through the lot.

Anyway, home - shattered, and to bed where I woke baby with my snoring.

[peterh337]

I got a free tube of a carbon-loaded conductive grease, which would be brill for lubing aileron and elevator bearings - stops arcing caused by static trying to escape via the bearings, which b*ggers VHF comms.

Got to check its temp range though...

[abgd]

That's a shame - could have used some of that for my r/c helicopter. Static from the tail belt can interfere with the radio control.

[Capvermell]

Four years ago (2008) I attended Farnborough on four different days including Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday. It was a good deal easier for aviation enthusiasts to attend on the Monday to Thursday trade days up to four years ago than it has been this year or two years ago due to changes in the admission arrangements.

My observation is that at the start on the first day of the show 90%+ of visitors are suited or jacketed and tied (tie and jacketing/blazering rather than suiting is actually a much more normal way to be smart for the majority of the mainland Europe contingent than full suiting is) but that this declines with every successive day so that suited or jacketed and tied folk are down to only just over 50% of the audience on Thursday - also there are always some casually dressed guests even on the first day as people in the trade give out free complementary tickets they receive to both their family and plane spotting minded friends. Friday is actually a fake trade day because they always let in loads of non trade people such as groups of local school kids or also this year so called "jubilee ticket holders" (anyone who bought a ticket online before turning up at the gate and these tickets were available online right up to the day itself) and most of the serious suits have actually generally departed by the end of Wednesday or failing that Thursday at the very latest.

I have been busy with other stuff this year and didn't notice that the 787/Dreamliner was only there for the first three days. But since Thursday I could have gone along but really couldn't be bothered due to a combination of the lack of Dreamliner, the utterly atrocious weather and the fact that all the other flying stuff is the same old/same old as has appeared before several times (including A380 and Battle of Britain Historic flight + Barclays stunt flyers etc). Same old, same old in lousy weather where it can't do its thing properly does not really appeal. Also I probably will be going to Fairford next weekend (depending on the weather though as tickets can still be got on the day at various locals stores despite the best efforts of the tattoo to force advance purchase only through its website no later than a week before the event) when half of this same old/same old display fleet will be appearing once again.

My friend who is more of an aviation enthusiast than me did go along on a Jubilee ticket to Farnborough on Friday and reported that the event was severely scaled back in terms of both halls and planes on display on the ground, especially compared to four years ago (the last full scale year before the recession started to bite deeply). I thought about going this morning if it had been a nice sunny day but then big angry black clouds appears in a Farnborough type direction and I decided it wasn't worth it.

I do agree that it is a complete disgrace that companies like Finmecanica bring loads of simulators along but then refuse to let the public proper try them out by not letting anyone without a trade pass have access to them from the Friday onwards. Now they have carried things one step further by simply closing down the majority of the trade stands on the Saturday and Sunday.

My main feeling is that the glory days of the show are in the past and that something radical needs to be done in terms of its format to improve its appeal. A starter would be to make the general public admission tickets for Saturday and Sunday valid for both days (although no doubt Elf and Safety frowns at permitting such spontaneity) rather than only one day to try to contend with bad weather and to keep the trade halls open at the weekend on the condition that the exhibitors will not be invited back again if they do not comply with this requirement.

[peterh337]

I agree, but it's hard to prevent exhibitors just sodding off leaving their stand empty - as many did on Friday. No doubt the staff were "around" claiming pay+expenses for the day while drinking in the bars trying to pull one of the rented birds ;)

The glory days of the show are very much in the past. It's been milked too hard.

[silverknapper]

To be fair to the exhibitors I can see why they leave. I was in the Aviator hotel two years ago. £500 a night. Put your staff in a few days early to prep and there really is no sense in paying another few tens of thousands to keep them there for days which will generate zero business at the other end.

[abgd]

And even if you do have a technical background, a lot of the stands are specialised enough that you'd have to be pretty hard core to be interested in them as an amateur. I can enjoy a discussion about turbine blades, and like to delude myself that the people on the stands might even enjoy telling me about them. But aviation finance? Corporate jet logistics? Stands with nothing on them other than the (unfamiliar) name of the company. If you needed to be there, you already would have been.

[Sir Niall Dementia]

I went Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday (sent by employer), doing research into a new aeroplane and two new helicopters, it was no-where near the show it used to be, and sadly just as you are getting down to the nitty gritty of whether the Scruggs Super Corporate Penis Extender Liner really will carry 30 pax 9 000 miles in four hours some b###er gets airborne in a pointy nosed weapons platform and you can't hear yourself think.

Best freebie:Walking through one of the halls with Francis Frogbound of these pages we were stopped by two young ladies offering free entry to an event, Despite uniforms FF and I aren't exactly pictures of virile manhood, turned out they were offering free entry to a club called Tantric Blue (Colnebrook By Pass SL3 0EH if your'e interested) normal entry £ 30! I gather it is a gentlemens establishment.

Worst rip-off sausage and mash and coke for two also £ 30!

[AndoniP]

Capvermell

Also I probably will be going to Fairford next weekend

Umm. I hate to break this to you mate... :E

[peterh337]

they were offering free entry to a club called Tantric Blue (Colnebrook By Pass SL3 0EH if your'e interested) normal entry £ 30! I gather it is a gentlemens establishment.

What was it like?

That kind of thing is absolutely standard corporate hospitality in the defence business - especially with Muslim customers :E

Many years ago I was a sub-sub-contractor on a piece of military hardware for the Egyptian Navy. Upon delivery, all contractors were required to be "around" in case of problems. All went well and a huge dinner was laid on for a dozen uniformed Egyptians in a discrete restaurant in Godalming. £500 bottles of vintage port all around (for the customers only, not us lot). Afterwards they were shipped off to an upmarket brothel down the road, to sample more Western hospitality :) All built into the contract price of course.

[goldeneaglepilot]

Peter, I'm sorry but as this is a rumour site - I was told that the rumour was that the girls were very selective and had indeed the tickets to two clubs, one the Tantric Club and the other was called the Blue Oyster club, they selected the people for each establishment according to how they were dressed

I did find a link on the Internet to one of the places:

The Blue Oyster Bar - YouTube

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Peter;

I wish I knew! Last time I was in caught such an establishment I ended up negotiating access to home via Relate!

Would Godalming allow anything other than an upmarket brothel?:E

GEP;

I guarantee FF and I were on the cheap list:{

SND