I love studies. Studies of human behavior especially. And I've come to the conclusion that 99% of the results of these studies are bullshit.

The latest one - out of the University of Manitoba in Canada - claims that children who are spanked (yes, spanked, not beaten to a bloody pulp) are 2 to 7% more likely to suffer from mental illness later on in life.

WTF?

A spanking can lead to mental illness?

WTF?

What ARE they snorting up there in Manitoba? Moose shit?

Wait 'til Miss Whiplash sees that !

Perhaps, since I was brought up by a succession of British nannies, you should make a study of my posts. In fact, it would probably be a beneficial sort of thing to do anyway.

And I thought it was due to taking oneself in hand too much! This is a much better excuse.

Having spent 6 weeks in Manitoba, with a cousin who used to lecture at U of M.....
'Friendly' Manitoba is what it says on the licence plates, and it really is. Manitoba parents are relatively strict, but loving, and the vast majority never use physical punishment. I can well believe that the parents who do are very odd, and the likelihood of their kids ending up with mental consequences is not surprising. Spanking is unlikely to be the only problem. Spanking parent frequently also off their head abusing prescription drugs is likely to be a fuller picture. There's a reason Winnipeg is the 'murder capital' of Canada. Though Winnipeg generally feels very safe; it's just certain areas. It's a bit like 'St Kitts is the murder capital of the World'. I've been there too. I'd happily go back to both. The bad guys tend to kill other bad guys in their own area, everybody knows and will tell you where those areas are, and they are always very nice to visitors.

I am not sure the results would apply outside Manitoba, except in other areas where parents rarely use corporal punishment; Sweden? Switzerland?

Mooses have many uses....but smoking their shit is not one of them.

now I know why my ex-wife was so flamin weird
She SAID she liked it...

A spanking can lead to mental illness? Perhaps depends on who gets spanked and under what circumstances and by whom...?!

Or perhaps a mere dependence on alcohol in later life, an ineptitude to develop inter-personal relationships (not just with the opposite sex) perhaps?

I was about 7 or 8 years old. Every night more or less (or so it seemed), I would wake up to hear my drunken parents arguing and sometimes coming to blows, just across the flimsy plywood partition which separated their bedroom from mine at the Pantai Motel which dad owned. I remember sometimes putting myself between my mum and dad and crying out to please stop at both of them.

When I was about 14 years old, I finally brandished my "Jim Bowie" knife at my dad. "I'm not afraid of you anymore. And if you hurt mummy ever again (so far as I recall, dad had already stopped his / their joint abuse 4-5 years before that), you're going to die". It was a turning point I believe. Until his eventual demise in 2007, he was the perfect husband, to the best of his abilities.

rgbrock1, you should be happy to know Uncle Sam never did me no wrong. Russia, the Syrians, the Pakistanis etc. would not want me as an enemy either. Just don't push me, as Rambo often expressed...

airship, thank you for posting that. Among the levity on JB (which all too often I take part in) we sometimes need reminding of the harsher realities of life. It must have been hard on you, but you did right. And you are so right about alcohol.

Lessons to be learned.

Having been 'educated' at a fairly rough South London Boys' school, where a
a bloody good caning was the norm, for just about any minor infringement of the rules, I have a quiet chuckle at this sort of crap.
Far from causing me mental illness, it taught me a bloody good lesson...don't ever get caught!
As an aside, my old man was a Master-At-Arms RN. He didn't mess about either when it came to adminstering a bit of discipline.

Had something similar myself. Aged 10, he had confided in me that he would leave my Mum when we were older. I was the oldest of three.

One morning there was another violent argument and to this day I remember shouting "Why don't you leave now?"

He didn't.

And yes he used a cane on me occasionally. Did it damage me? Possibly. My sisters? Yes, one of them.

On the positive side it has probably made me a better parent. Ex and I dealt with biting babies by biting back. That worked, and carefully chosen words seem to have worked thereafter.

He did leave her when we had grown up.

I bottled it all up, so it was hard to tell my sisters that I would not be reading a eulogy at his funeral.

You've only got to search the internet or look at the rather quaint ads in London pay phones to see the spanking world is huge.

Why this is I don't know, but vast amounts of money are changing hands daily. Seems like a tax cash cow:ok:

Mental illness has a number of roots from inherited genes to the drug induced paranoia some smack heads develop.

I saw someone under extreme pressure at work (and unable to ask for help) start to hear voices and then tell people it was God and that we should change our ways.

As corporal punishment was widespread both before, during and just after the 2nd WW why are there not more loonies?

SGC

how do they define "mental illness?"

during and just after the 2nd WW why are there not more loonies

Exactly. I'd say many here are products of that era, and there's nary a loonie here...

how do they define "mental illness?" I was told by a CPN (Community Psychiatric Nurse) that I was "as sane as he was" . . . :confused:

I was told by a CPN (Community Psychiatric Nurse) that I was "as sane as he was" . . .:D

not sure if tha helps:ok:

Ya know, I've looked at this thread a few times and I have to say;-









There are worse ways of becoming mentally ill than a sound spanking and a gentle rub better after by a beautiful woman. :eek::}:E

Possibly an explanation for the fact that most of the British Upper Class are a few spanners short of a set

Lon More, I'll have you know I certainly DO have a full set of spanners,










just not necessarily from the same manufacturer! ;)

"a sound spanking and a gentle rub better after by a beautiful woman"

definitely an incorrect vowel in that statement


"I certainly DO have a full set of spanners"
was that supposed to read "I certainly DO have a full set of spankers"?????

I certainly DO have a full set of spanners

A useful mixture of Whitworth and BA...

Possibly an explanation for the fact that most of the British Upper Class are a few spanners short of a set

You confusing spanking with inbreeding.

One thing leads to another... :rolleyes:

could be true. it's just - spankers or spankees? :E

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/471022-friday-jokes-38.html#post7090666

:= Lon, how could you say such a thing !....do you really think the English upper clarses actually know what a spanner is !

Anyway, for Capetableviewtonian, in response to your post, you get a mention it seems.....others on here may well feel a certain affinity or empathy of course....:p

On the other hand, this probably summates "middle Hinglund" rather well..:E

Midsomer Murders - Country Matters (kinky part).avi - YouTube

Many fathers assume discipline means yelling, threatening or spanking children when their behavior is unacceptable. However, discipline can be interpreted in many ways and dealt with differently among different fathers.

The first thing to know about discipline is the two ways it can be interpreted. Some men may be confusing discipline - which means loving (http://www.yourtango.com/love)guidance and teaching - with punishment.
How to Discipline Your Kids: 5 Tips for Dads | Parenting - Yahoo! Shine (http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/discipline-kids-5-tips-dads-213100906.html)

Well, Dads?

What a great idea - Horrible woman.

CAT III

airship, thank you for posting that. Among the levity on JB (which all too often I take part in) we sometimes need reminding of the harsher realities of life. It must have been hard on you, but you did right. And you are so right about alcohol.

OFSO, your kind response surprised me. To be frank, I came back on here to edit / delete a couple of my posts in JB made yesterday whilst being in an "over-emotional" state and having perhaps divulged too many personal details.

Some clarification required though. My dad never ever hit me directly as a child. One time, on my 7th or 8th birthday, my present was a small PT-109 patrol boat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PT_109_(film)). I'd asked for it especially, as I'd seen the movie. Problem was, I'd expected a fully-assembled and remote-controlled PT-109. When I unwrapped the present, it was basically just an"Airfix" kit. And when I complained to dad, he whipped the present out of my hands, put it on the floor and stomped all over it for maybe 2 minutes until nothing but little shreds of plastic remained. Probably the year afterwards, I'd been hoping for a Raleigh model 20 bicycle (not really sure of the model) for my birthday. That morning, I was lead out to the front of the motel. Where I discovered what was basically a full-sized (adult) bike. I couldn't even climb onto the saddle?! A few days later, I got the small (child-size) bike, even if it wasn't a Raleigh...

It doesn't matter that my dad never hit me directly, as a child from the age of 6 or 7 until I was about 14-15 or so, I'd hit myself whenever I felt things were not going quite right... I'd often hit my skull with my fists repeatedly. Sometimes just until I felt my hands hurting and my head going numb. Me Neanderthal, thick skull...?!

That's perhaps why I can only trust myself with cats. Not people, family , children (my own). My anger once aroused appears to have no bounds (instead of banging my own head), I'd prefer to bang someone else's head/s. Lots of choices out there in the real world, send me your own "hit-lists". :(

That's perhaps why I can only trust myself with cats
Interesting comment, because I consider cats to be faithless, disloyal and mercenary. I don't dislike them, don't misunderstand me, they can be sweet and cuddly and affectionate, but they are utterly self-interested.

A stray cat 'adopted' us earlier this week. He came to the house late at night and miaowed outside constantly until we let him in. He was cold, wet, hungry and thirsty. We gave him food and water, cleaned him up, gave him a good brushing and removed lots of debris from his fur. He stayed for breakfast and lunch, constantly jumping up and asking for cuddles. After lunch he disappeared, only to return late at night, crying at the door. Same story, only this time he wasn't as dirty and hungry. At lunchtime he disappeared again.

That's perhaps why I can only trust myself with cats.

Well, you are speaking here with the original cat man ! In fact I love all animals, although cats are top of the tree. Probably my abiding sin in the eyes of the Lord is that I love and understand and have more patience with animals than with humans. I hear (and sometimes see) behaviour from humans that I can't conceive an animal being capable of.

My marriage #2 was to a wild Canadian lady who loved to pick a fight, especially after drinking. She brought to the marriage two children of previous relationships. Until I read your e-mail, airship, I never realised what they went through during our short and unhappy marriage.

I must add I see in my present wife acts of self-sacrifice and charity towards humans that I'm not capable of. Except, needless to say, me feeding the half-starved and scrawny furless cat that turns up for food here each day !

Thanks again.

my dad never hit me directly
ehh, back to the basics... hitting and spanking, any difference?
For me 'a spank' would be an extremaly quick and efficient way of conveying the message in urgencies (e.g the child exploring the wonderful world of electrickery, via sockets), no real physical pain, whereas hitting... well, I wouldn't do that.

As one of the levity brigade, I can personally testify on this one too - those of you who trawl through pprune in the wee small small hours of your lives will on occasion note a dark element in some of my posts.

"Beyond reasonable chastisement" Is the legal phrase used in the UK to define physical abuse. Obviously, like yourself, I do not disclose too much detail suffice to say abuse of this kind, can start very early on, and by its very nature affects the development of the psyche. It takes a long time to overcome (yes my pprune age is correct).

Self confidence is desroyed and the world is viewed as a very hostile place by a child; that is effectively denied a childhood in any meaningful way - I'm still attuned like rat, to detect hostility towards a child and i still to this day have the reflexes to avoid thrown objects.

Five weeks ago I saw a young mother throw her 2/2.5 year daughter into a pushchair and exclaim "little f****r" - By second sense my hackles were already up - I did not have a phone otherwise it would have been 999. I politely remonstrated with the young mum, explaining in some detail the very lasting effects of abuse. A tiny audience (3 old folks) appeared from nowhere and clapped.

Its not the first time I have seen this happen - But the effects of abuse sadly last a lifetime but diminish. Its a question of establishing an identity away in space and time from the place of abuse and building a life. Affection and friendship are vital - it takes time and is not always a linear path to recovery.

Alcohol is not a friend here avoid at all costs.

CAT III

Tableview wrote: Interesting comment, because I consider cats to be faithless, disloyal and mercenary. I don't dislike them, don't misunderstand me, they can be sweet and cuddly and affectionate, but they are utterly self-interested.

A stray cat 'adopted' us earlier this week. He came to the house late at night and miaowed outside constantly until we let him in. He was cold, wet, hungry and thirsty. We gave him food and water, cleaned him up, gave him a good brushing and removed lots of debris from his fur. He stayed for breakfast and lunch, constantly jumping up and asking for cuddles. After lunch he disappeared, only to return late at night, crying at the door. Same story, only this time he wasn't as dirty and hungry. At lunchtime he disappeared again.

You've pretty much destroyed your own "anti-cat" credibility there IMHO?! Good luck to both you and the stray... :ok:

OK, my claws are all extended, I'm ready for the fight...?! But whom am I supposed to be fighting against here :confused:

Looks like even the most beligerrent amongst us realise when a few hisses suffice amply as argument...?!

I wish you all a good afternoon.

PS. Bravo, CATIII-NDB. Always remember that such interventions are at your own risk and peril. That reports / accusations could easily come back (back-fire) to haunt the innocent bystander. Which is why I wouldn't bother anymore if it concerned anyone I didn't know, though I would still, if it concerned a neighbour in the same building for example. Otherwise, probably not worth the risks / effort. "Live and let live", or "Live and let die" being the 21st century motto...
With kind regards,
airship.

Airship - You are absolutely correct.

Thanks.

Hello all. I've been rather reluctant to post on this thread. I accept this is JB and various postings may not be to everyones liking etc but I am a touch surprised at some of the postings.

However, I certainly believe that a 'good hiding' can indeed lead to issues at a later time in life. Not looking for sympathy here, but as a very young sprog my Father would spank so hard you could probably call it hitting. My elder Sister reckons most of my troubles began at that age (I'm currently being 'treated' for alchohol abuse and am under a Court Orderhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/boohoo.gif).

She recalls the instances as well but strangely my younger sister was not subject to the 'abuse'. I recall on one occasion my Mother shouting, (or speaking very loudly) "stop it ! stop it! that's enough!", haven't a clue what I did wrong. My Dad would literally bang our heads together, and it bloody hurt, perhaps if we were arguing over who should have the last strawberry Opal Fruit. He would use this as a threat. "If you don't stop (whatever it was we were doing) I'll bang your http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif heads together". Not very nice, eh? So, even at my age I'm still trying to reconcile all of this.

The fact is I never really trusted him as a result which is a great shame, given all the other stuff which he did for us (education, holidays etc.).

To brighten this post up a tad, he bought an E-type in the mid '60s. The original, convertible with enclosed headlamps; Carmen Red was the colour. 3.8 litre, straight six. Not that silly 4.2 machine produced for the American market with the open headlights, ugly damn thing. Our Sunday treat was a 'trip' down the newly opened M1. You've all seen the footage, E-type occupants waving at each other on the opposite carraigeway, well I was one those!

And we were NOT poodling alongat 70mph! I seem to recall from the handbook something like "during high-speed cruising it is advisable to drop below 120mph" (it could have been 100mph, not sure). I remember getting home for Sunday roast and telling Mum excitedly, "we did 147mph down the M1!!!" That's the figure I recall (invented) because at those speeds the speedo went up and down like a yoyo, as some here may know. It was between 140 and 150 anyway. Dear Mum went crazy.

I drove it solo a few times, grande it were. Picked up a female hitch-hicker in High Wycombe, now was that http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cool.gif or what? The silly sod wrote it off doing speed trials at Silverstone just after he rebuilt it, don't think he ever forgave himself after that. One bit of inheritance up the swanny...

Cheers all.

Dear Pelikal, The fact is I never really trusted him as a result which is a great shame, given all the other stuff which he did for us (education, holidays etc.).

So far as cars go, my dad had a V8 Pontiac, which he had shipped over to India from Malaya in the early 60s and used there whilst visiting relatives for a few months etc. That was a few years after I was born (1960) but suggests that he wanted to make it clear that he was "the man", aged about 52-3 years (like me today) only to die in 2007 after 20 years+ as a care-taker of a doctor's surgery in UK, and more or less destitute.

Obviously, I wish that dad had been able to put me through a UK public school education, as he'd done with my elder sister and brother. Instead of me dropping out of formal education at the age of 14. Though I'd be hard put to put any blame on him (having experienced a UK comprehensive school at age 13 for a few months - and the gratuitious racism that prevailed in that school).

Instead, I often wonder about all those (mainly African children), lots of whom are probably far more intelligent than myself, yet never got the same chances in life that I did. Given an equal chance, I sometimes wonder whether or not some African child born in the 60s or 70s might today hold "the key" to the developed 1st World country (France) where I currently reside and have worked for the past 21 years.

I dunno, perhaps some miraculous technological discovery in the field of energy production which France might have patented and offered to the rest of the World? Or perhaps the African youngster (as a respected economist) would have warned us all about the banks and global financial crisis commencing 2007 etc.?! Or that banks invariably lie 'including their chairmen and CEOs" in the case of Barclay's most recently?

It wouldn't surprise me if numerous International bank executives regularly hold "spanking sessions" on a "free afternoon", at company expense.

Such sessions should not be confused with childhood experiences. Our Bankers (the wankers according to many) are widely considered to have much more wider responsibilities in our economies.

I suggest to everyone here that the next time you call or see your local bank manager (or assistant), that you seriously evoke the situation of Barclays today. Who appear to me to be at best, wholly dishonest as an institution from the top down; if not entirely incompetent at the lower (branch) levels. And wishing you "the best of luck" when seeking redress - at the end of the day, the UK government and their agencies also have important responsibilities which don't necessarily depend on the banks' actions (or inaction). Speaking frankly though, the UK's politicians (all political parties) and UK bankers all feed from a common trough IMHO...

Ooops, I've transgressed a very long way away from stray cats, spanking and irresponsible parents, sorry about that... :oh:

Airship, I wouldn't worry. I have no idea of the link between spanking and E-types anyway.:hmm:

I did show this thread to my wife but she says any more talk of such nonsense and she'll give me another good hiding.

You lucky man you...enjoy (and thank you Mrs. ShyTorque)?! :ok: