ILS or Manual Landings - Who decides

[Azman]

Hi All,

When landing, can a pilot choose what type of landing they want to do, should that be a ILS or manual landing?

I ask because when at EGLL today, every pilot on approach said to the tower they were established on the ILS

Thanks very much

[Gonzo]

Somewhere like LHR, all arrivals will use the ILS (or similar instrument approach such as Microwave Landing System or RNAV). That doesn't mean that the crew do not land manually. Most crews will disable the autopilot at some point on the approach and fly the landing, but they will still be using the ILS until visual with the runway.

If doing an autoland, ATC have to follow certain procedures to protect the integrity of the ILS signals called Low Visibility Procedures.

[Azman]

Thanks for your reply.

If I pilot wanted to fly the whole approach would that be allowed?

[16down2togo]

An ILS is an approach procedure and has nothing to do with the landing, you can fly a non precision appr. in auto flight as well. Autoland/ low visibility is a different ball game.
The decision when to change from autopilot to manual flying is done by the pilot flying on final authority by the pilot in command.
Most approaches, being them non-, or precision are at one point hand flown, since the normal airport procedures don't give you the undisturbed signal required for an auto land.

[i_like_tea]

As above really.

It depends a bit on the airline and their procedures and also the conditions of the day; weather, traffic, fatigue etc.

If it is not too busy field, me and the skipper are feeling alert and good, then I like to fly the approach "manually" to keep my skills up to practice. I am still (usually) flying an ILS but how manually is up to me, and when I take the auto flight out is up to me/us too.

So perhaps I will be flying manually before intercepting the localised, or perhaps once i'm partly configured i'll disconnect the autopilot.. then I choose about the auto thrust, if I have flight directors guiding me etc etc.

Basically, there are many ways of flying the same ILS approach, some just a bit more work than others.

In some airfields we sometimes ask for a visual approach to avoid the long vectoring, or to land on runway which gives us a 5 minute short taxi. For example, we are often cleared for an ILS approach in Toulouse to 32L but sometimes we request a visual switch to 32R, which if cleared, we turn everything off including the ILS guidance and fly the plane manually.

Hope that makes some sort of sense!

[Azman]

Fantastic responses! Thank you all very much

[i_like_tea]

Keep the questions coming :)

[fujii]

You may be interested to know that a number of airlines are looking at doing autolands even in visual conditions. Although the ILS critical and sensitive areas may not be protected, this ensures they hit the same spot every time and get a shorter taxi.

[sevenstrokeroll]

also, you may be interested to know that there are human pilots that can land on the same SPOT every time they want to. Indeed, it is a requirement for the simple to obtain COMMERCIAL pilots license to demonstrate a landing within 200 feet of a pre selected spot.

IF you ever watch the movie, "twelve o'clock high" there is a sceme in which the stunt pilot (mantz) took a B17 up and ''crashed'' it within six INCHES of his pre selected spot.

you see, many pilots now a days don't give a darn about being particularly sharp and just sort of squeek by.

OH and by the way, reporting on the ILS is a mere way of checking in with a position. One could also report, established on five miile final and be in the same spot...or on right base...etc

[champair79]

LHR is a bit unusual in that most aircraft will fly the ILS on autopilot until given clearance to land. Often, you can hear the autopilot disconnect bell sound when one of the pilot confirms landing clearance. It's so busy that speed control and position are vital. That's not to say longer manual stretches of the approach aren't flown but it's rarer at LHR just because of the congestion.

[Wirbelsturm]

I have often flown the whole approach from the hold.

Need the practice!!!

You may be interested to know that a number of airlines are looking at doing autolands even in visual conditions. Although the ILS critical and sensitive areas may not be protected, this ensures they hit the same spot every time and get a shorter taxi.

Not sure about this one. Have a look at the Sinagapore 777 into Munich which tried autoland fully coupled without the LVP protections!

If a vehicle or and aircraft gets into the protected area then it can disrupt the ILS beam resulting in erroneous flight path errors at low level.

Also the time for the aircraft to 'vacate' is increased as they take longer to vacate the yellow and green ILS protected area.

Personally I find many aircraft tend to play 'thumpers' under autoland and I prefer to have a personal input to my embaressment! Unless of course 75m visibility dictates it!

[Azman]

When flying on Vatsim and turning to establish the ILS, i often ask ATC to fly a visual landing, because i enjoy flying manual and want to keep a feel of the aircraft...i understand the reasons from above of why ILS is used..thanks! So I'm guessing you real world pilots want to fly manually as much as possible. So do you ask for visual landings when you can?
Sorry for the questions, I'm a massive aviation fan and could talk about anything related to aviation all day...I promise not to do that on here!

[Wirbelsturm]

Azman,

So I'm guessing you real world pilots want to fly manually as much as possible. So do you ask for visual landings when you can?

I think you are confusing 'manual flying' with a visual approach.

You can manually fly an ILS in IMC. In the 777 you get the non flying pilot to make the MCP selections and dial up the final approach track and then fly the given radar vectors by hand until the ILS LOC and G/S become active then you follow those, offsetting for drift. This can be done with or without the Flight Directors. Personally I like 'raw data' approaches without the FD's.

A visual approach is the approach controller giving the flight path decisions to the Pilot to allow the pilot to position himself/herself on finals without the use of any instrument approach system.

For example you can fly an ILS in permanent IFR manually but the approach controller will not give you permission for a 'visual approach'. The approach controller will want to maintain approach separation in their airspace. The US is a great place for giving 'visuals' for example I was flying a visual into Washington Dulles the other month. :-)

At a smaller/less busy airfield you can ask for a visual and then it is up to you to get yourself aligned, setup and configured. Often with the caveat of ensuring minimum specific speeds are maintained. The visual can be flown with automatics in or out. It's up to you.

99 times out of 100, unless the weather demands it, the A/P will be removed for the landing.

[Azman]

Thanks Wirbelsturm, i was getting them confused. Thank you for taking the time to explain.

[olympus]

One CAVOK Sunday afternoon some years ago we were approaching OCK on a standard arrival into LHR and on handover to APP the controller asked if we were visual with the field.

'Affirm' said I, (I might have said 'affirmative' as that always sounds better)

'Cleared visual approach 09 left' said he so that's what we did; I disconnected the A/P and hand flew it. We had all the navaids set up for 09L just in case but we didn't use them.

For a (very) short moment in time we were the only aircraft on the freq. Probably never happened again.