Various business class seats

[Momo]

Just a few notes and a surprise about business class seats...

Here are a subset of the flights I have made over the last few months and comments on the seats:

LHR<->Seattle and LHR<->Dallas on BA: the usual Club World seats. I have been noticing that the tables have varying amounts of tilt and had to hold it up using a pillow on one flight as there were no free seats to move into. BA has the best privacy, though the seats are narrowest.

Frankfurt-SFO with an A380: Same Lufthansa seats as on other LH flights as far as I can tell. The only difference appears to be that the screens have better resolution. The air conditioning seems very different. I get really dry bleeding sinuses on most 11-12 hour flights and did not feel that at all on the A380. Another passenger told me the A380 is the only aircraft where the air is humidified. The angled lie-flat seats used to be good, but now seem outdated. I have not been on the new 747-800s with the new seats.

Zurich-SFO on an A340 with Swiss: The seats/lie-flat beds are very comfortable indeed. More comfortable than those in First Class on the way back. The A340s have the old First Class seats and there is no plan to change them before the aircraft are changed, according to a crew member. The First Class seats are allegedly much better on the A330, but I have not tried them. For privacy, be sure to choose the business class seats that are on their own. I think these are all along the right side of the cabin and every second row on the left.

Vienna-Dubai on Austrian on a 767: Angled seat/beds in poor condition. Outdated video. Not very comfortable.

United Newark->Geneva and Chicago->Frankfurt: Surprisingly, in my opinion, by far the best video system with big high-res screens. Easily the best lie-flat seat for sleeping. Don't know why. Something to do with the way the area around the seat hinge really goes flat, I think.

So... if the timing works and you don't have to worry about earning HON miles (not possible on United, while Senator miles work fine), take the United rather than LH flights on any route where they operate, in my opinion. I don't know how much of the fleet has the new seats though.

[radeng]

American Airlines to Chicago in May. Poor. 2 - 3 - 2 arrangement, no flatbed, about the same as Club World in 1980. Usual not quite grumpy CC, giving an impression of being PO at having to work.

[Cymmon]

Qatar , MAN-DOH-MNL.

A330-200/300, 2-2-2, nice but not lie-flat. AVOD and screens easy to use. Good legroom.

B777-200LR/300ER, 2-2-2, VERY nice lie flat (6'4") beds, wide seats. AVOD choices same as A330 but touch screen extra. Suprisingly more difficult to use by hand-held control.

Superb in every way. Can't wait for October for my next flights.

[jethrobee]

I've recently got back from a 2 day trip to Abu Dhabi, and I must say that the Etihad seats in Business Class were excellent - private and plenty of space to stow things.

I love the BA seats, specifically the rear-facing window seats for long haul, only niggle for me - there is nowhere to place your specs while you catch some sleep. If you use the drawer you have to bring your seat all the way back to be able to see again!!!

[L'aviateur]

The variation in hard product in business class, makes it necessary to do research on what you are actually buying.

For instance, the business class product on Kuwait Airways is inferior to the Premium Economy product on Qantas....

The best business class I've flown with, and I may be biased, is Oman Air. Although they were awarded by several organisations for being the best business class in the world.

I generally look for fully flat, and my preference to is generally Etihad since all the aircraft offer the same lieflat cubicals which ALL have aisle access, and they also offer as you wish dining.

For service, I found Asiana the best.

With non fully flat seats I barely see the point in flying business since I know I won't sleep.

Also not overly keen on the herringbone arrangement by some airline such as Cathay.

[Rush2112]

SQ on the 380 and 777 have a flat bed, but when it's upright for sitting, I find it too wide to get comfortable - sounds weird I know but some friends and I were talking about this the other day and we all agree that it is fine for sleeping but not quite right when trying to eat.

Otherwise, the service is excellent, the IFE is pretty OK and the F&B usually good so I am happy to keep with SQ when it is an option.

[dubh12000]

Etihad business seats are very nice, but the older "green / blue / snot" colour scheme is like a throwback to a 70s nightmare. The Swiss seat is the best I've come across so far though. I'm 6'6" and I can stretch out fully in it.

Etihad IVOD also requires some form of higher education diploma to operate too.

[SeenItAll]

I find the new United business seats too squishy -- very little support. The best business seat that I have occupied is herringbone on Air Canada -- lots of firm support, long and wide.

[lenhamlad]

Extremely impressed by business class on Oman Air LHR-KUl via MCT. Lie flat beds, great service and good transit lounge in Muscat - much needed refurbishment has taken place. Only gripe was the poor lounge at Terminal 3 LHR, although the food was good.

[L'aviateur]

@lenhamlad

Which lounge did you use? They are using the No.1 lounge now which is excellent, and has a selection of meals so that you can dine before you fly.

As for the OmanAir business seats, quite a lot of airlines operate the same seats for their First Class product.

[spannersatcx]

Cathay Pacific scored a resounding success at the 2012 World Airline Awards, with air travellers voting the airline as providing the World's Best Business Class.

The survey, conducted by global aviation research organisation Skytrax, polled over 18 million business and leisure air travellers from 100 countries, with the winners of these passenger's choice awards announced at the Farnborough Airshow, UK on 12th July 2012.

"This is fantastic success for Cathay Pacific Airways, and provides worthy recognition of the airline's new long haul Business Class. To be named as the world's Best Business Class is a clear indication of the esteem passengers have for this new product and staff service, and must be particularly pleasing for the management and staff at Cathay Pacific. As possibly the most competitive category amongst airline products, it is a great achievement to be named best in the world" said Edward Plaisted of Skytrax.

Air travellers were surveyed by telephone, questionnaires and online about their experiences with airlines on the ground and in the air during a 10-month period. The survey measured passenger satisfaction across more than 38 key performance indicators of airline front-line product and service, including check-in, boarding, onboard seat comfort, cabin cleanliness, food, beverages, in-flight entertainment and staff service.

The survey covered over 200 airlines, from the largest international airlines to smaller domestic carriers.

[lenhamlad]

L'Aviateur, I think it may have been the No 1 Lounge. As I said, the food ordered from the menu was very good and plentiful(don't know why I had a meal before boarding at nine at night to face another three course meal on the plane) but the lounge was full, with no easy chairs available, only tables to be had. It was one of those lounges where members of the public can pay £20 to get in, so it was pretty busy and the selection of buffet food available (if you were not flying OmanAir) was average at best. On the other hand, since the business class lounge at Muscat has moved up to the first floor (to the old first class?) things have improved dramatically. Looking very much forward to the opening of the new terminal buildings at Muscat. First worked in Muscat in 1980 and Seeb, as it was then, had only two gates.

[Momo]

Now going twice a month to the US from GVA, usually going to SFO, so have to transit somewhere. Company rules are to take least expensive business class, so travel a variety of airlines.

In the last year I have learned to adjust the Swiss seats to always be comfortable. I still think the United seats and Entertainment are best, though very little privacy and very old and grumpy flight crew from FRA and GVA-EWR. LHR-SFO United crew are London-based, younger and more cheerful. BA has most privacy, narrowest seats, problems with the tables sloping and things sliding off. Next two trips are on LH. Old sloped seats now appear obsolete. I don't know if the new ones have gone beyond the 747-8's yet. WIll be on A380 over from FRA and A340-600 back via MUC twice in next three weeks and expect the old seats. Swiss now systematically the most expensive as always full. Air France has added a late flight back from SFO 3 or 4 days a week, so expect to take them soon. Have not been on their new flat seats.

[fincastle84]

Upstairs on the BA 747 is perfect for my 6' 3" frame. I have a favourite row/ seat combination but that's my secret.;)

[Captivep]

Fincastle - me too!

[Hartington]

Another vote for upstairs on a BA 747!

[PAXboy]

There is nothing like it! I've been there in various formats VS Upper Class, Sabena Biz and SAA Economy (possibly more!) and it was always a bonus.

[Momo]

Now going to the US from GVA about every third week... mainly to SFO, also Chicago, LAX, and Houston next week.

Confirming:
- United still most comfortable with best video system. Feels the most crowded due to lack of separation and 8 across. Steward(esse)s seem close to retirement age. Went once to SFO via LHR and the crew was London-based and younger/less grumpy.
- BA best for privacy. As others have said, window seats on upper deck have most room and decent storage space. Seats narrow, video system old, tables tend to slope towards the free end so things slide off.
- Swiss flat beds second-most comfortable after United. Sometimes feel the most comfortable if I can get the various adjustments just right. Video system seems higher res on A330s than on A340s.
- Lufthansa: have not yet flown the new business class. Try to avoid A380s as you can be at the back of the upper deck and have hundreds of people off the plane in front of you in the immigration queue. The A380 arrives at SFO at rush hour. Had to take it twice as it was cheapest business fare, but best avoided. 90 to 120 min in immigration queue at that time. A340 from SFO via Munich better for queues, though video system seems lower res than on A380.
- Air France 777: simple seat adjustments. Slight angle, but really good sleep nonetheless, possibly because it is the last flight from SFO to Europe, leaving at something like 21:25. Simple video system.
- KLM (747): least comfortable. Seat has considerable angle so I seem to slide down while trying to sleep. Simple video wiith low resolution. As others have noted, KLM due to start to change these seats.

Momo

[Gulfstreamaviator]

It is almost impossible to design a seat that offer 100% horizontal sleep, and then a conforatble seat position to eat.

I dislike Emirates first class pobs,a nd the seat is not to my taste,Ok mini bar is nice,and vastTVscrean is nice, but I am after a good seat.

In general the QR 340 seat is best, the B777 is OK, but I like the Bus companion seat, but disliked the partition.

Mext week back to MNL from DOH and for value for money I use Econ, last fewrows, and the Qatar Pearl lounge. Value for money perfect.

I am a great believer in QR, much better than EK. If going eastbound, I am happy to accept the ground time in DOH, and have a very nice lounge experience.Then sleep on flight.

Only problem with ECON from LHR with QR is NO lounge, in T4........
Bummer.

glf

[Momo]

Of course, riding on my boss's boss's G550 is best.

[Niallo]

If you want to sleep in privacy, the AC pods on the 777 and 767 are the best. They also provide direct access to the aisle for every seat. Unfortunately, AC is going to a higher density seating on their new planes, and reverting to the old type of business seats. They will lose my business because of this.

[ExXB]

I too will avoid AC's new B777s, but because of the 398 (10 abreast) seats in Economy- in addition to the 60 seats in Economy+ and Business. (They also have a two class configuration for the same model, but that one has only 307 (9 abreast) seats in Y)

Apparently they will be used on low-fare high density routes (Montreal - Paris is the first route).

AC will continue to offer their Business Pods on other B777s - I think the change is only for these high density monsters.

You can see both configurations here. aircanada.com - Our Fleet - Boeing 777-300ER (77W) (http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/fleet/77W.html)

[Gulfstreamaviator]

To give you the honest truth, i do not like the seating in any of the Gulfstreams that I fly.

The leather seats look really nice, but do not work as a eating seat, back is too far back, and gives no support.
As a reclining seat, say 60%, they are so slippy as to provide NO support to the body, so you are always having to push back up. Unless you are a small person and then can curl around, and fir on the actual seat......
As to a almost 100% recline, similar no grip problem.

The divan made up to a almost double bed is better, but not perfect, I can not actually sleep on it.

All crew rest areas I have tried are very bad, noisy often not practical to black out you can hear every word from the cockpit, every galley locker SLAM (you know just what I mean after one flight), every galley call. and not easy to sleep,

The best sleep on board, is actually the P1/P2 seat, plenty of stretch room, a nice side head rest, and no slip seat cover.

Just my 2500 hrs on Glf speaking.....

Glf

[Heathrow Harry]

I dislike the face to face BA seats - every time the other person moves it catches your eye - unless you have the screens up and then it feels like you're in a coffin.

And the BA 767 seats are just plain awful - other operators of 767's seem to have a far better product

Personally ANZ Business long haul are the best I've ever seen

[Momo]

Since the last descriptive post exactly a month ago, I have done:

GVA-LHR-IAH - Upgraded to 1st by BA on the way over due to overbooking in business. I had not flown in BA First before. The surprise is the cabin walls, decorated to look like you are in a train, I think. When the shades are down and the blue lights on, it is really nice. I like the way you are walked from the door to your seat.

Flew Club World back from Houston. Both flights had new higher-definition video screens and a new moving map that is almost impossible to navigate.

GVA-LHR-DAL: Club World on the way over, with low-res screens on a 747. My particularly right-sloping table made a wine glass fall off by gravity and break on the carpet. Flew back on an AA 777-200 which has the older business class seats with a slight slope. I found them very hard, but slept OK. We left Dallas three hours late due to major thunderstorms, so missed my connection and had 3 hours to wait in LHR. Food continues to be great in the Gold lounge.

GVA-ZRH-SFO on the usual 340-300 that takes 12 hours. You save about 45 minutes on that with a 777 or 747. Swiss is not putting in new seats or video on the 340s, waiting until they are replaced by 777s in, I think, 2015. The good news is that there is no longer a security control in Zurich when you come back from the USA. If only that could happen in LHR. I understand it is difficult to determine who has come from which arriving flight. The Zurich solution in terminal E is to get arriving US passengers to go back up onto the boarding level, then take the train back to A/B.

Anyway, the low-res video on the 340s is irritating, so I did not watch any video, preferring my HP ElitePad. It is also irritating that the advertising they run now prevents access to the forward-facing video cameras to look at the take-off. The advertising ends several minutes after take-off. On landing, you no longer control the video and they sometimes remember to turn on the front camera. Also generally annoying that Swiss continues to tell you not to turn on your phone on landing, while BA has joined the various American airlines in alowing it.

Anyway, back to SFO via ZRH on Monday, returning via MUC.

[Tray Surfer]

Momo... I find your experience of the tables in CW to be rather interesting. I work almost all my flights in the CW cabin and although I agree that they are not the most stable of tables, I have never seen someones wine glass just "fall off" the end of the table by its self. You must be exceptionally unlucky for this to keep happening on your flights.

As I say, I am not arguing your point, just think you must be exceptionally unlucky.

[Momo]

Being fair... if you put your glass back on the little paper doiley, it does not slide off. Missed it once... And of course the table is flatter if you do not have a PC or the food tray on it.

[Momo]

Came back from SFO via MUC yesterday. Crew told me it was the first A340-600 fitted with their new business class seats. What a great improvement! Fully flat with quite thick cushions. Big screen. I would have to get out a ruler to tell whether it is as big as the United screens, but I think it is a little smaller. Got 5.5 hours sleep with no back pain or other discomfort. The new table is slightly wider, and quite difficult to put back in the armrest, in that it takes quite a push. Crew were helping other passengers. Took the usual Air Dolomiti flight from MUC to GVA, though crew were grumpy, while I usually find them cheerful.

Is is the best of those I fly on regularly? Not sure. I will be going to SFO again on Sunday, this time via FRA on United, so will compare with my current No. 1.