Getting started with ATPL's

[Matt7504]

Hello PPRUNE community, I don't create many threads but felt I would make this one as the subject makes me feel a little uneasy.

I am due to begin my ATPLs on the 28th of August with CTC Takeoff (Yes, Takeoff aka Modular), and should be completing my PPL skills get on Monday. However, I am quite nervous about beginning my ATPL's as I seem to hear all these stories such as "Yes, its 6 months of hell, they are very hard etc".
Though I am looking for some advice about how I should proceed with doing them, if theres any tips or pointers I should know beforehand to prepare me for them and get me in "the zone" so to speak for when I commence the ground school. Everyone I have asked previously hasn't really given me what I regard as constructive advice, just statements such as "Enjoy them whilst they last, work very hard its worth it, its going to be a tiresome 6 months" which to be honest I was already aware of.
What I want to know though, is what to do in the run up to them so that I'm not suddenly hit by a big step up and how does one usually revise for them, for how long, etc. Any constructive advice would be much appreciated.

[pudoc]

"Yes, its 6 months of hell, they are very hard etc".

These are typically comments from individuals that don't have a true passion for flying. These are comments from people who think being a pilot is cool and want it for the status.

If you really love flying you will enjoy every minute of it. It's not easy and you can get a be frustrated with something but I would describe it as 6 months of gaining interesting knowledge that makes you feel like a real professional once you're done.

Work hard and enjoy it is all I can say.

[truckflyer]

PUDOC - don't agree with you on that, 6 months is hard for the ATPL's, but if done full time it is not as hard as you believe from the start!

However it is extremely time consuming!

One thing I have also discovered after finishing ATPL's, CPL / IR - is that if you think you know it all after that, I can promise you, that is the wrong attitude, because you/me we know nothing after that! Nothing to do with the real knowledge required to be an airline pilot!

Tip when you finish ATPL/ CPL / IR, start reading and understanding stuff like hell, because the level required to pass your CPL/IR compared to an airline assessment, are worlds apart!
Make sure you get yourself a proper good MCC course, as this will give you a taste of what you really need to know.

[truckflyer]

Yes maybe a bit wrong formulated, but exactly my point, agreed!

It never stops, as far as I can see!

[RTN11]

Looking back its not all that difficult, but at the time it is a lot of information to take on board. Air law lessons on a Friday afternoon when it's a beautiful day and you just want to go flying are pretty demoralising.

On the other hand, a lot of it is actually very interesting, even if a lot doesn't seem relevant to a real life airline job. As above, the people who moan the most either don't have enough passion, or just want a quick fix rather than learn the fundamental principles that will shape their future career.

[RyanRs]

Any chance i could butt in with a quick question of my own?? ;)

Well, im just at the end of my PPL, all exams finished months ago and just waiting to take my skills test. I am now looking into taking my next steps in the path toward an ATPL and once i have accumulated 150 hours i am thinking of enrolling on the OAA Weypoint programme and doing there full time ground school.
What i would like to do though in the meantime whilst hour building etc is try and give myself a head start on the study so when i start the full time ground school, i shan't be learning everything from scratch. I am the type of person that sometimes has to read, re-read and read again before my brain clicks and i realise what the text is trying to tell me, even for simple stuff.. call it slight attention problem,call it slight dyslexia? i dont know.. however i know i will benifit greatly doing some pre-course studying.

What is the general order of subjects of which the ATPL course follows? what would be the ideal first book for me to study?

thanks.

[flying apple]

i did my atpl ground course in 2010 and i didn't found it as difficult as i thought in the beginning.
the only sh :mad: tty part were the courses in the weekend (at that time, now i'm used to it) and no hollidays anymore
i did an integrated course i don't know how it will be timing wise for you

[RTN11]

What is the general order of subjects of which the ATPL course follows? what would be the ideal first book for me to study?

They don't really follow any order, in fact there is a lot of overlap of different subjects.

Most residential courses are 6 months on a rolling basis, so you come in to start your first 3 month set while the last guys are doing the same subjects as their second 3 month set.

There's plenty of material available, and if you want to part with some cash you can get the oxford computer based training programmes from transair or pooleys. I never used them myself, but people I know who did always said they were good.

[RyanRs]

Ok, well I would like to start on something like 'Aircraft technical' or 'principles of flight' as these i find these very interesting to read, however this probably means they are going to be the subjects that i pick up the easiest and therefore i think it might be wise to go for 'Air law' as my first.. the boring one!
I have the OAT PPL CBT set and even tho they are well made, i didn't take in the information as well from them as i did from reading the books. I think its down to the narrator's boring tone and having to keep clicking next every 10 seconds! It would be better if there was the option to play continuously so one could be listening whilst doing other stuff - bit like an audio tape etc.

Another thing i noticed, with regard to 'Electrics & Electronics' & 'Airframes and systems', these subjects go into great detail of the operation of hydraulics,electronics systems, control panels etc but obviously all the information in these books will not be relevant for every aircraft type with each aircraft model having its design differences; so can i assume that these books are a generalisation of how these systems 'typically' function to give the student the knowledge required for one to adapt to the systems of each aircraft type?

thanks for the help

[RTN11]

On the aircrafts systems & engines papers you are asked questions about generic jet engines, turbo prop engines and piston engines.

I remember getting a performance book with figures in, probably downloadable from caa.co.uk.

As I recall the questions were sort of based on a 737, something along the lines of a dash-8 and a piper arrow. It never actually said this, but if you look at the figures, weights etc that's basically what they were asking about.

So, sorry to say you need to learn all about the various types of hydraulics and electrical systems even if you are never going to fly aircraft with them. Remember at PPL learning about different types of flap, even though you may never see a slotted fowler in your flying days.

[pudoc]

If you're going to pre-read anything it should be the bigger subjects like POF, AGK, met, instruments etc. This is because these are the subjects which airlines are most likely to question you on and they are much more important subjects than air law or general navigation.

Also, bare in mind that knowledge can go against you as the 'correct' answers in some exam questions are factually wrong. Sad to say you've just got to learn the answers to quite a few.

Airlines complain that new pilots have crap tech knowledge, CAA complain to schools, schools complain to CAA that they have to spend time learning how to play this exam game, the CAA then agree with schools but then suddenly realise they don't have the money to write better questions. Rinse and repeat.

I think question banks should be banned and questions from the CAA should be scratched and they should right much better and fairer questions.

Bit of a tangent, but this is what you can expect from ATPLs.