Low Level Flying - where did it go and why?

[tarantonight]

Reading the two posts here at the moment re Hercs at low level got me thinking.

When I were a lad growing up in Hertfordshire, but a spit and a jump from the Cambridgeshire border, every day was a flying display. Loads of low level stuff, both RAF / USAF.

Everything you can imagine, big and small, fast and slow.

Speak to my mum nowadays and she's lucky if she sees a Cessna.

What happened - and why?

I know low level trips still go on, but why not there?

TN.

[Doctor Cruces]

1/ There is now little perceived need to fly really low.

2/ We don't have any planes now, not like the good old days when we could cover the whole country with "the sound of freedom".

3/ The Spams sent almost all their aeroplanes home after the wall came down and so it's still not like the good old days when they had enough aircraft over here to cover the whole of the UK with "the sound of freedom"

:)

Doc C

[Wokkafans]

Plenty of low flying rotary here in Hampshire :ok:

[NutLoose]

You need to paint RAF F*CK OFF in big white letters across the top of your Mums roof, preferably not facing a road, that is normally guaranteed to attract them, at least in the short term. :E


.

[tarantonight]

My mum is far too polite for that.................................:ok:

[Airborne Aircrew]

Today's pilots, like nostalgia, just aren't what they used to be... ;)

[newt]

No aircraft

No pilots

No low flying

Who the f is in charge of the RAF?:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[tarantonight]

'Nail and Head' come to mind newt...................

[longer ron]

I think BAe run it these days :)

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Newt - the politicians are in charge as always. Try the following comparison

1982
Margaret Thatcher PM Research Chemist
Willie Whitelaw DPM, Home Sec 6th Guards Tanks, Normandy-Germany, MC
Francis Pym - Foreign Sec 9th Lancers WWII, MM
John Nott - Def Sec 4 years Gurkha Rifles, 1950s
Norman Tebbit Employment Sec RAF Pilot, Meteors, Vampires, Mosquito
Michael Havers Attorney Gen Midshipman WWII
etc

2012
David Cameron PM PR Wonk
Nick Clegg DPM Lobbyist for Ghadaffi's Libya 1992-3
William Hague Foreign Sec Management Consultant
Philip Hammond Def Sec Medical Equipment firm director

etc
only Iain Duncan Smith has any Service time, 6 years Scots Guards, so he's doing pensions.

And remember that Tony Blair even skived off CCF at a school where it was compulsory.

[NutLoose]

My mum is far too polite for that.................................


Did I mention telling her? :rolleyes:

[ICBM]

No aircraft

No pilots

No low flying

Pretty much this.

Our wonderful government instituted the complete demise of around 50% of the jets who regularly frequented England and Wales. They've also sacked a bunch of pilots as well via cuts and redundancy. The poor effect all of this has had on morale is driving even more to the exits.

With limited resources and an emphasis on ML ops in Afghanistan (as was in Libya also) it is unsurprising that hardly any low flying occurs now.

Eventually we will be relying solely on TV, pictures and the two or so official air shows the RAF are allowed, per year, to convince the UK taxpayer that we even fly aircraft in an offensive role. Like NZ, eventually the number of transports/helos will outnumber the jets and we all know what happened to the latter....

I think its about time some hard-nosed military folk became politicians, got into power and sorted this bunch out once and for all.

[NutLoose]

I think its about time some hard-nosed military folk became politicians, got into power and sorted this bunch out once and for all.


That's sorted then, Buster for PM, heck, he cannot be as bad at that as he is at Golf or Caption competitions.

:E

[TMK1]

Still seems to go on in Wales occasionaly!

View topic - 4 Days, 8 Locations: Mach Loop, Wales - 22nd-25th May 2012 (http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=43792)

View topic - 25TH June: Return Of The Jedi (http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=44273)

View topic - 23/24/25TH MAY: Slogging It On Cad (Pic Heavy) (http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=43483)

[diginagain]

Still seems to go on in Wales occasionaly!That's just subjugation.

[sevenstrokeroll]

gee that comment about New Zealand seems to be spot on.

in my own country, we have cutbacks scheduled too.

BUT

I am reminded in history of how the worm turns...if you will:

1. which side was japan on in the Great War?

2. 19 years after the fighting stopped, Japan bombed and sank a US ship.

3. Russia and China were part of the allies during the Second World War...and 5 years later, after the USA had reduced its military dramatically, the US was fighting China, Russia and North Korea.

In other words...your friends can become your enemies, your enemies your friends and the best advice is: Be Prepared.

[WorkingHard]

icbm - "I think its about time some hard-nosed military folk became politicians, got into power and sorted this bunch out once and for all"

Do you really think there are such people in the military? When we hear on an almost daily basis the huge waste of resources from the military chiefs and together with the seemingly crass decisions on equipment needs then I seriously doubt it. And please do not try and blame the politicians, it is surely the military top brass that make the list of needed equipment and they have to decide what is needed within the budget constraints.

Good luck any way!

[ICBM]

WH,

Do you really think there are such people in the military? When we hear on an almost daily basis the huge waste of resources from the military chiefs and together with the seemingly crass decisions on equipment needs then I seriously doubt it. And please do not try and blame the politicians, it is surely the military top brass that make the list of needed equipment and they have to decide what is needed within the budget constraints.

Well you see that assumption is the exact problem; it's not the chiefs I refer to. No, not at all because you don't need to be at the top to have a savvy political mind, an impressive grasp of current affairs, a sense of past mistakes and a personal experience of military doctrine that always demands that you are 'prepared' etc etc. In fact, it is better that they are not senior Generals etc because these are at the top of their profession and arguably too late in life to start out on a career in politics.

My point was this WH:

There are truly exceptional, inspiring individuals from within the enlisted and officer ranks of all our services who, if they passionately believed in the political cause, could very well rally and win a seat in parliament. Instead many of those I describe loosely above leave and do something else with their lives because the military, as a way of life for 30+ years, is simply not for them or their families.

[NutLoose]

What you really need is a war close to home that would put the willies up the politicians.... Short of invading France or Scotland and arresting Salmond it's never gonna happen.. Thank God

[WorkingHard]

Good points ICBM

[cornish-stormrider]

All points aside - big thanks to TMH for linkying the "filth"

I caught some showoff Tiffin driver pollutin this fair naval city o Plymouth with the sound of freedom this morning.

Goddam that thing is agile.......an thanks to the jockey an crews for a superb display - cheered me right up.

Later on while gardening I was treated to all sorts of fun combustion systems.
BBMF was bestest though......

Fly Safe

[Easy Street]

You didn't say how long ago your childhood was... however I would wager that the expansion of controlled airspace over the years has also reduced your exposure to low flying jets. I still low fly quite a lot but never in South Cambs or Herts, they are just too much 'shark infested custard' as we refer to areas full of avoidances and restrictions. Much better to head for Wales, Northumberland or the Northwest...

[newt]

Don't forget Scotland Easy! Always pleased to see VFPs in Dumfries and Galloway. The lower the better:ok::ok::ok::ok:

[MFC_Fly]

In fact, it is better that they are not senior Generals etc because these are at the top of their profession and arguably too late in life to start out on a career in politics.

I would say that it is because those at the top are already more politician than military leader!!

Too many of the top brass are more interested in their own futures and so don't want to upset the apple cart by saying what really needs to be said!! :ugh:

[selfloadingcargi]

we have politicians and top brass who seem to know the price of everything but the value of nothing. Top brass are now 'professional' Officers but not 'conscientious'. Low flying hasn't recovered from people falling off horses - again, top brass very good at fixing the blame and not fixing the problem!

[bobward]

Thinking back a few years, look at what's no longer around:

Wattisham: 40+ Phantoms
Honington: 40 Tornado
Coltishall: 45+ Jaguars
Bentwaters / Woodbridge: 100 A10
Upper Heyford: 75 F-111
Alconbury: 20 A10, 12 TR-1, 12 F5/F16 Agressors
St Mawgan: 12 Nimrod
Wittering: 24 Harriers
Cottesmore: 45(?) Tornado TTTE
Leeming: 30 Tornado F3

That's well over 400 aircraft, not counting the training stuff we used to have.

Looking into USAF Europe:
Hahn: 75 F16
Bitburg: 75 F15
Ramstein: 75 F16
Torrejon: 75 F16
Zweibrucken: 24 RF 4
Sembach: 30 OV10

There's another 350 +/-, before you even consider the canadian CF188 wing at Baden-Sollingen, and the number of aircraft our NATO allies have scrapped. I think, as a conservative estimate, there are close to 1,000 less military aircraft in what used to NATO / USAFE, compared to the watershed of the 1980's.

With that, and the change in tactics, and the budghet cuts, it's no real surprise things are quieter. The real question is, I suppose, are we that much safer today, than then?:sad::eek:

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Since no-one is likely to step outside their front door of a morning these days and find a 125mm smoothbore from a 3 Shock Army T-80 shoved up their nose; Yes, we're safer.
You aren't likely to get woken up 3 hours earlier by a KGB equivalent either.

Getting blown up on your way to work by terrorists is about the same; just a different cause.