View Full Version : Flightplan and oceanic clearance
26th Jun 2012, 16:07
just a small question:
Imagine a flight from München (Germany) to New York, how the flightplan clearance on delivery would be:
1) DLH123 cleared New York, via SID, flight planned route, squawk 1234
2) DLH123 cleared MALOT (NAT entry Oceanic airspace), via SID, flight planned route, squawk 1234
3) DLH123 cleared New York, clearance limit MALOT, via SID, flight planned route, squawk 1234
Reason for question:
UK ENR AIP states:
"220.127.116.11 Pilots are reminded that the Oceanic Clearance (including level allocation) is valid only from the OCA Entry Point.
Aerodrome ATC and/or Domestic ACC will issue ATC clearance to the OAC Entry Point."
Does that mean the initial flightplan clearance by the delivery ATC is always called to the OCA Entry point? Or how is this UK AIP rule to understand?
Hope you can help me...
27th Jun 2012, 09:38
I'm voting for 1.
Reasons, from a German ATC point of view what is MALOT? Whilst it maybe the valid filed OCA entry point why would the german ATC know about the UK AIP or the 'Oceanic rules for transit' or the OCA point about 2 hours outside of their airspace?
Would you expect them to know about the transition arrangements for Iranian airspace or Indian Ocean points, of course not.
AFAIK, the Atlantic Oceanic Crossing clearance delivery and expectations and limitations are very (very) unique.
But it does raise the old chestnut in my mind, what is a flight planned route? The one you have filed, the one in your FMS, the one dispatch accepted on your behalf after you were airborne, the one the active ATC unit has, or the next unit, or the next?
27th Jun 2012, 16:22
A controller can clear a flight to destination via "flight planned route" even though an oceanic clearance has not yet been obtained. It is still the pilot's responsibility to obtain and adhere to that clearance whether or not it is the same as his original flight plan.
As an aside:
Our flight planning computer will show the Clearance Controller whether or not the route has been modified from what was filed and will require a readback of the modification.
Also if multiple FPLs are filed without cancelling the previous ones, the controller will check with flight planning and may be required to confirm the entire route if it cannot be determined which one the crew intends to use.
I had to read and obtain a readback of the entire route from CYYZ to UKBB with Aero Svit the other day for just this reason. Pilot was not impressed because the route I read was the same as the one he was expecting but he read it back verbatim and quickly.:D
27th Jun 2012, 17:23
PANS-ATM says (my bold)....18.104.22.168 CLEARANCE LIMIT
22.214.171.124.1 A clearance limit shall be described by specifying the name of the appropriate significant point, or aerodrome, or controlled airspace boundary.
126.96.36.199.2 When prior coordination has been effected with units under whose control the aircraft will subsequently come, or if there is reasonable assurance that it can be effected a reasonable time prior to their assumption of control, the clearance limit shall be the destination aerodrome or, if not practicable, an appropriate intermediate point, and coordination shall be expedited so that a clearance to the destination aerodrome may be issued as soon as possible.
188.8.131.52.3 If an aircraft has been cleared to an intermediate point in adjacent controlled airspace, the appropriate ATC unit will then be responsible for issuing, as soon as practicable, an amended clearance to the destination aerodrome.
184.108.40.206.4 When the destination aerodrome is outside controlled airspace, the ATC unit responsible for the last controlled airspace through which an aircraft will pass shall issue the appropriate clearance for flight to the limit of that
It goes on...220.127.116.11 ROUTE OF FLIGHT
18.104.22.168.1 The route of flight shall be detailed in each clearance when deemed necessary. The phrase “cleared via flight planned route” may be used to describe any route or portion thereof, provided the route or portion thereof is
identical to that filed in the flight plan and sufficient routing details are given to definitely establish the aircraft on its route.
So number 1 is a valid clearance provided that there is no doubt about the flightplan details - Blocka and cossack describe some of the problems with that simple proviso. And the problems will probably only increase as some of the changes to flightplan procedures and details coming into European legislation are implemented. Concepts like preferred business trajectories are good in principle but cannot easily be mixed with 'old' systems.
Number 2 is also valid but, I suggest, usually is adding unnecessary complexity.
Number 3 is ambiguous in my view with two apparent clearance limits and so is not valid.
28th Jun 2012, 22:32
Your clearance limit is your destination.
If you suffer R/T failure prior to receiving your Oceanic Clearance then we, (Oceanic), would expect you to follow your FPL route at the level shown in your FPL at the entry fix;
e.g. FPL= MALOT F320 53N020W 50N030W F330 49N040W...
Therefore if no Oceanic Clearance is issued, you maintain F320 from MALOT, and maintain F320 for the entire Oceanic crossing, whilst following the FPL route.
Alternatively you follow the Oceanic Clearance as issued by Shanwick, irrespective of the FPL route/level(s).
Rab-k....... I understand that you are an oceanic controller, i am extremely interested by your statement that.. If you suffer R/T failure prior to receiving your Oceanic Clearance then we, (Oceanic), would expect you to follow your FPL route at the level shown in your FPL at the entry fix;
Looking at NAT DOC 007....
5.1.1 Oceanic Clearances are required for all flights within NAT controlled Airspace (at or above FL55).
5.1.11 If pilots have not received their Oceanic Clearance prior to reaching the Shanwick OCA boundary, they must contact Domestic ATC and request instructions to enable them to remain clear of Oceanic Airspace whilst awaiting such Clearance.
But if we are unable to contact Domestic ATC due to VHF comms failure, then surely we should divert to a domestic airport rather than enter the ocean?
6.6.28 Equipment Failure before receiving an Oceanic Clearance:-
Divert or fly the Flight Plan route, speed and initial planned oceanic level to landfall.
I love flying across the atlantic, but I'm not sure that I would be willing to cross the ocean without a working VHF radio as we dont have Satcom nor CPDLC :)
IIRC it comes under the "Communications failure prior to entering NAT oceanic airspace" section of Doc 7030.
Edit: Not where I thought it'd be, but here
If operating without a received and acknowledged oceanic clearance, the pilot shall enter oceanic airspace at the first oceanic entry point, level and speed, as contained in the filed flight plan and proceed via the filed flight plan route to landfall. That first oceanic level and speed shall be maintained to landfall.
Replicated (more or less word for word) in our own MATS Pt 2.
Couldn't find it in the online versions of Doc 7030 NAT 22.214.171.124 or P-ATM Doc 4444 Chapter 15 however.
I found the statement in Doc 007, but it is contradicted by the other two statements (5.1.1 and 5.1.11) that I posted from the same manual, so it is kind of confusing.
I am amazed that they are permitting us to cross non-radio......
Doc 007 6.6.21 is what we have.
Never seen anybody cross without a clearance, as per the "proceed via the filed flight plan" procedure, but seen a fair few have HF issues enroute and end up relaying position reports via adjacent aircraft/Sat-Phone.
2nd Jul 2012, 16:20
The airport I work at is approximately 200 miles from the oceanic entry point, therefore aircraft departing here are issued their oceanic clearance prior to take off. It would generally read something like
SID KOBEV 50/50 51/40 51/30 52/20 LIMRI XETBO EXPECT FL330 M .80 DEPART RWY AND SQUAWK.
Aircraft departing from other points would get their oceanic clearance from Ocean Clearance Delivery while still in domestic airspace.
I don't recall anyone ever going across without an oceanic clearance due to a comm failure, which means it will probably happen during my next shift...