How much do you weigh?

[PhineasC]

I recently travelled from ncl to lhr on BA, excellent flight till the baggage got sent to the wrong carousel. The executive lounge was full so I guess 75% of the passengers were frequent flyers. I’d be happy for BA to have my weight. This would allow the airline to estimate the load more accurately thus operate the plane more efficiently, balance the weight making the plane easier to fly.

Counter intuitively it may make flights more expensive, if the average weight of a frequent flyer is greater than that of the average passenger then the expected weight of the passengers would increase requiring more fuel

[Tableview]

It's pointless and impractical for a number of reasons.

A person's body weight can vary over a period of time, and their overall weight will vary from day to day according to clothing, determined by the weather at each end of the journey, and by what they are carrying.

Many people would lie about their weight, some might not know it and guess, and some will probably feel that asking for, and storing, this information, is against their 'yooman rights'.

For these reasons, the airlines work on averages based on season, route, and passenger demographics, and I think if you average those out across an aircraft, they'll get it close enough most of the time.

Why would a FF weigh more than an 'average' person?

[PhineasC]

I think current passenger weights are calculated using averages, standard deviation and a confidence interval.

The gain from using actual weight is due in part to mathematical arguments, if B is a subset of A , if we know the weight of B exactly then the variance of the estimate of the weight of A and B will always be less.

FF may weigh more because they are more male than the general population, thus the estimate of the weight of the passengers may be more accurate but higher.

People are in general getting heavier, but I don't think many people would lie about their weight to and airline, they always tell the truth about their baggage weight.

[VNAVPTH]

I 'fondly' remember going to places such as ACC and FNA with the sadly departed Astreaus. Due to the large number of passengers using family members to hide extra luggage away from check in, we would weigh each passenger and their bags to get an accurate traffic load. Lots of fun for the LGW ground staff. :E

[PAXboy]

The standard weights are updated regularly. Some years ago on one of my manytrips theough JNB, they invited me to partcipate in a 'weigh in'. This was the airport gathering data that they could sell to the airlines. The weight figures were not used for that flight, simply noting what I weighed, with over coat and hand luggage.

[Dawdler]

I seem to remember that a regional jet-prop aircraft crashed because the assumptions on the load weight were wrong. The CofG calcs failed to match reality and the result was that the plane was tail heavy. After the rotate, the pilot could not rectify the nose up attitude and the stall was unavoidable.

[PAXboy]

As I understand it - that happens regularly in various parts of the world. There was a case in the Carribbean some years ago of a female pop star and entourage (I think) where the weight was wrong and they ploughed in very quickly.

In Africa, there is often the misundestanding that because 'space' exisits inside the hold - that more 'stuff' may be stuffed in until the hold is full. The fact that, say, a single case of lead ingots could take up all the lifting capacity available - is not always understood or accepted.

This is why you often see cars and lorries seriously overloaded or already broken in the ditch. The same is done to aircraft. Of course, the smaller the craft the bigger the problem.

[Di_Vosh]

but I don't think many people would lie about their weight to and airline, they always tell the truth about their baggage weight.

LOL! You should meet more people then (unless, of course your comment was sarcastic).

I've worked for a regional RPT operator flying PA31's (10 seat twin piston aircraft). In Australia we're required to weigh each passenger for such a small aircraft.

Women, especially, didn't want to be weighed, and would tell us their weight. When we told them that unless they got on the scales they wouldn't fly, they reluctantly did so. In general they'd weigh around 5 - 10 kilos heavier than what they said.

In today's world of 'pay for everything', most people lie about their hand luggage weight. Jetstar (Oz Loco) charge on some flights for checked baggage and have a strict '10 kilo 1 item plus one small item' hand luggage rule. About once per week, the hand luggage is weighed and any in excess of 10 kilo's must be checked in (and duly paid for by the passenger). Sometimes this generates around $3,000.00 for the flight.

I seem to remember that a regional jet-prop aircraft crashed because the assumptions on the load weight were wrong. The CofG calcs failed to match reality and the result was that the plane was tail heavy. After the rotate, the pilot could not rectify the nose up attitude and the stall was unavoidable.

That was a Beech 1900D in the states. ONE of the issues with that flight was the use of standard passenger weights (77kg at the time). After that accident the standard passenger weights were revised.

In Oz, many airlines use 85 kg for an adult (male and female). What they lose on the heavier men they gain for the women.

[ExXB]

I know in the US the average weights come from the FAA, not self-decided. I suspect the same is true in other jurisdictions.

At 62kg and never travel with more than one checked suitcase (usually only a carryon) I support, nay encourage the airlines weighing you and your bags. Anyone over the average has to pay more, anyone under the average gets a rebate (or free drinks, free internet, anything like that).

In addition to weight limitations passengers should be charged if they exceed a standard 'cube' (weight x hight x width). They'd get a bigger seat, or an empty seat next to them. (Yes I know, logistic nightmare)

The tendency to check two bags per person has been reduced by charging for that second bag, showing that very few travellers actually need 17 pairs of shoes for a one-week holiday (Mdm ExXB excluded, of course) :p

[PAXboy]

It wasn't the USA, I did some trawling and found the prang: Cessna 402B 25th August 2001

ASN Aircraft accident 25-AUG-2001 Cessna 402B N8097W (http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=58982)
Crashed shortly after take-off due to overload. Singer and actress Aaliyah Dana Haughton (22), members of her record company and the pilot Luis Morales III were killed.This also has a link to the NTSB, which I have not read.

More detail in the Wikipedia article (under 'Death') that gives a long list of causes, not least that the pilot was not licensed for the aircraft! But overweight was what ensured they didn't make it very far.
Aaliyah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaliyah)

[Di_Vosh]

The crash I was referring to was this one:

Air Midwest Flight 5481 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Midwest_Flight_5481)

[PAXboy]

Di_Vosh That maintenance isue is a helluva 'gotcha'. The FAA faiked the crew and pax twice - In the Wiki article:
As a result of the weight issues discovered, the FAA planned to investigate and potentially revise estimated weight values, something that had not been done since 1936.All too believable.

The Cessna 402B prang that I thought of, also had, classically, more than one cause.

[Di_Vosh]

As usual, more than one cause.

IIRC, in the midwest one, the last link in the error chain was when the crew selected gear up. With the nose gear retracting rearwards, the CofG moved back just far enough (along with the degraded elevator controls) so that the aircraft became uncontrollable. :sad:

1936, I guess the average adult weighed 77kg (169 lbs or just over 12 stone). I'm guessing that in 1936 the average adult would be considered undernourished by todays standards.

[Piltdown Man]

Currently, the standard weights for (most) aircraft certified with 18 or more seats are as follows:

Scheduled Flights - Male: 88kgs, Female: 70kgs, Child: 35Kgs, Infants: Zero.
Charter Flights - 76kgs. Hand baggage: 6kgs.

Baggage - 14.5 (or 15kgs if the system can't handle decimals) OR actual weights.

Flight crew: 85kgs, Cabin Crew: 75kgs.

However... If you saw that you had an aircraft full of sumo wrestlers (or midgets) it would be reasonable (some might argue compulsory) to use actual weights.

The above weights remember are averages and they are updated from time to time and they only apply to larger aircraft. For smaller aircraft higher averages or actual weights are used.