NAPT AW139 Instructor recruitment? [Archive]

Stn120

31st May 2013, 17:44

Rotor Watcher and Swinging Spanner

sounds like you advice is good,
from what I'm hearing from the land of milk and honey, it all going sour!

Aircraft availability low due to lack of groundcrew.

Pilots resigning, Pilots being sacked, Pilots sitting on their backsides, only flying an average of 1 1/4 hour a week, Type Ratings lapsing and not being renewed or having to pay to renew themselves.

Sounding like a glorified flying club for the Qataris. Sounds like there are a lot of unhappy people who are waiting to get the first year out of the way then jump ship.

Good money offered initially, good standard of living - villas or apartments not as good as promised (promised the Pearl at interview), some pilots getting pay cuts. Guys being clocked on and off camp, Flight Safety supervision inadequate yet being micro-managed!

stas-fan

2nd Jun 2013, 22:48

I have to say past experience of them is not great, but that was a couple of years ago, maybe they changed and are looking after staff.
someone there should pop up and comment.

Turkeyslapper

2nd Jun 2013, 23:48

Type Ratings lapsing and not being renewed or having to pay to renew themselves.

When you say "type ratings" what do you mean...your JAA (or equivelent) licence? If so, why should they pay for that to be renewed? Surely if they are state registered aircraft, they have their own "military regulations and qualifications" which need to be adhered to ..which ahve nothing to do with your own personal civil licence?

Cheers

Stn120

3rd Jun 2013, 09:24

From what I understand, the pilots are flying military registered aircraft, under military regulations where no TR is required, there is no TRE to do the TR's, therefore their TR's are lapsing and the only way to renew or revalidate is to pay for a TR themselves through a civvy company out there by buying sim time. Or when they change to another position, gain a new TR with a their new company. They don't need TR's for the military flying, just that if they wish to move on, then they will almost certainly need a TR.

They are frustrated at the lack of flying and reduction of proficiency and poor organisation / supervision from above.

We shall see what the next few months bring as they approach the end of the first year of the contract.

True_Indeed

4th Jun 2013, 12:33

Turkeyslapper, what you are saying could be true if it was not promised differently ... one on top of the far too many lies

Adroight

4th Jun 2013, 15:04

Why did not anyone ask what it was like working in the Sandpit before accepting the jobs? Lies are the norm.....

True_Indeed

8th Jun 2013, 17:30

What a shame ... we should have asked about what? If one of the richest place on earth has the will to give credit to his word? Unfortunately what is happening is only stressing your assumption so, just to help other fellow honest aviators not to get caught in this crazy trap, I'll soon be back providing interesting details about all this :mad: organizations ...

Sir Phillis

9th Jun 2013, 09:14

True Indeed, keep it coming. I made an inquiry months ago and only noticed a pm after I decided not to join. That person was kind enough to respond and it sounded ok but now it seems that things are not that good. I am interested to hear from those on site what their experience is. Lets hear from both sides please.

Stn120

9th Jun 2013, 10:45

I think you will find, that those who are currently there and considering moving on will be keeping their heads down and watching what is happening closely. They will be unlikely to say anything on here just yet, but no doubt will become public when the have left in case of reprisals.

One guy who has had his contract terminated is still in country waiting to be paid his separation, but the company are being awkward and playing games.

As soon as I have any further information I will post it accordingly.

Certainly doesn't seem a happy place to be. Money isn't everything.

True_Indeed

13th Jun 2013, 12:15

Sir Phillis, no time for details right now but trust me, whatever they will offer DO NOT ACCEPT !!! ... unless you like having your life fully messed up by a bunch of liars who don't give a sh:mad: about you, your family, your background, licenses, age, word and so forth.
As soon as I'll have more time I will pass you details ... by the way as Stn120 stated, working in the sandpit is a risky business and money isn't everything . Good luck !

The Waif

15th Jun 2013, 15:49

Hello all.
I am giving serious consideration to joining NAPT for their AW139 program. I wasn't aware that there were any issues with them but after looking through this thread I'd really appreciate any info.
The company themselves seem pretty legit but I don't know anyone out there who has actually taken the plunge so to speak so all I have to go on is a string of e-mails and promises.
I've never worked in that area of the world before so I am the A-typical greenhorn!
Any responses would be really helpful.

Thanks.

Stn120

28th Jun 2013, 06:12

I hear one of the pilots departed recently. He went on leave and sent an email saying "I quit". Nicely done!

I also hear the instructors are backstabbing some if the non-instructors which is leading to a considerable amount of distrust within the group.

True_Indeed

29th Jun 2013, 13:02

Another big, big problem is that "somebody", still the man who makes promises and does NOT keep faith to them, has chosen the very wrong man to lead the operations and the training. To summarize management is :mad:; organization is :mad:; planning is :mad: and the atmosphere has already become :mad: !!!
If you take out from this vision the not too bad salary (different from pilot to pilot) all the rest is :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: .....:ugh:

ring gear

29th Jun 2013, 14:21

I can honestly say all that has been said on this thread is essentially true. Waif, be very careful if you value your sanity, especially if you have not worked in the Sandpit and if you are a "greenhorn" ....the last comment from Stn120 has a strong ring of truth......

Whilst NAPT have finally abided essentially by the contracts...and in some cases even better than, (after some unfortunate argy bargy), the work environment is one of extreme frustration for most....

"That's all I'll say on this matter"........for what its worth!

True_Indeed

4th Jul 2013, 08:27

... And can the worst become even worse? Yes , indeed!!!
These super geniuses could not manage a camel herd, just imagine a "supposed to be military" group!
Never ever seen anything like this in all my life.
The sad thing is they even treat expats like :mad: when they could only be cleaning their shoes ...
PPRUNERs BEWARE ... You are all adviced!

Adroight

4th Jul 2013, 09:56

It has always been that way in the Sandpit and always will be. You either accept the ****, keep your mouth shut, take the tax-free money and enjoy your time off - or leave.

As someone on the Middle East thread once said 'If you are there for anything else but the money then you are there for the wrong reason'.

HeliAviator

18th Jul 2013, 13:07

Having worked in the "sandpit" and well versed on the misleading words of the "grande fromage" in charge I have followed this thread with interest. I see there has been no posts recently; what is the current situation? Have all the issues been resolved or are expats still intending to leave in droves? I have a couple of colleagues working here, but they have gone tight lipped on the situation, I guess the smelly stuff hit the fan and they have been told to be quiet, at least on PPrune.

Stn120

4th Aug 2013, 12:09

Not a lot of information coming from Qatar at the moment.

It would seem that maybe those who are there have been told to pipe down and not make comment for fear of reprisals.

All I hear is that one individual is not being permitted to leave as NAPT will not allow him an exit visa. This may be a knee jurk reaction to the fact that a couple have departed on vacation and not come back. So how do they trust people to go on holiday and return? Are those that are there going to have to demonstrate some sort of commitment (a bond) that they shall return?

Doesn't sound good.

HeliAviator

4th Aug 2013, 13:24

The latest I hear is that there are many who wish to leave, by hook or by crook and not many applying to fill the empty spaces. It doesn't sound good for the scheme and reflects badly on the Brigadier in charge, but then he never was a diplomat preferring a dictatorial style of leadership. :ugh:

True_Indeed

13th Aug 2013, 14:30

The Brigadier has no leadership at all. it is not that he has a dictator style the problem ... is even worse. He is not able to command a group of people, he does not know where to start from ... Firstly, he lies and he started to lie at the interview promising things that never happened. Yet, with particular reference to the people, he thinks that because of the salary, which is average good even if he thinks that none of the pilots there has ever seen a monthly check of 12k USD, he can treat them as he wishes because nobody is ever going to leave ... not to be commented ...
On the other end he has not organized anything, he is not able and willing to, he is just relying on some "fantastic" instructor who has his same leadership quality ... what else do you want more from life ? ... what a pity, what a waste ... and so not somebody but 99 % of the people there is willing to leave. Good luck you all folk !

CapTiger

25th Aug 2013, 11:33

Well I have been the third to arrive and the first to leave perhaps my friends and colleagues should have followed my steps.
It is a great pitty as it should have been a great place to live and work, good luck to all of you guys my thoughts are with you
:ugh::=:=:mad:

HeliAviator

27th Aug 2013, 10:51

I see nothing has changed, the issues have been going on since early 2010 when Brigadier G sacked four Agusta instructors in a row as they would not bow to his wishes. Since this time the AW139 SAR has struggled to get off the ground (pardon the pun), the EMS project has struggled with suitably qualified crew, the Utility has done only a few hours burning holes in the sky and many of the instructors have a dubious abilities. I know that he was pinning his salvation on his preferred instructor, who I know and have flown with him. He is an excellent instructor albeit not a good manager and to be fair he can not perform miracles, especially when aircraft serviceability is woefully poor and Brigadier G meddles with a very long screwdriver. It is time for a quantum change here to achieve the progress needed to achieve the aims of the project. Though, with the numbers wishing to move on and the bad press the project has received it would be difficult to recruit qualified front end crew, instructors and engineers to make this project work. There is an excellent Qatari officer qualified to lead the project waiting in the wings, hopefully the powers at the top will make the decision to diplomatically make some changes, but I would not hold your breath on this, or you may turn this colour :{

Sandstruck

27th Aug 2013, 13:02

I'm not sure what your agenda is, however, your last post is not accurate, and very unprofessional.

Regardless of your personal opinions, the operation is moving in the right direction and serviceability is good. There are a couple of whiners who are not suited to this environment and are not happy (but they are still here...go figure that one out). They are encouraged to move on, I doubt their exit would be impeded and they will be easily replaced. I suspect it is from one of these that you are getting your "intel".

Unless you have something constructive to post, I suggest it is time to mind your own business. Thanks.

True_Indeed

27th Aug 2013, 23:20

Heliaviator has posted something very interesting dear mr sandstruck ! You could be posting something interesting saying that all what we have written about this topic, many different people, is not true !!! Giving the clues of course.
If you state that this is the right direction for the operation to move it just means that you do not have the least ideas about what the word operation stands for. You all go back to school bunch of lazy liars and just kiss the hands of all the Indians and Pakistani that are building your country for free while you keep playing and pretending to be a military unit!

Adroight

29th Aug 2013, 20:56

True Indeed. As Sandstruck says - 'If you don't like it simply leave'. Stop whining and go. No one is interested.

TigaLagiBu

29th Aug 2013, 22:31

Looking at the root of the problems, the difference of opinions might be the experienced ZA R22 guys who have a 139 Rating. Doha might be their perfect world, not sure if I would want to be on the end of the cable. We had a lot of that a few years ago, kind of glad they moved to greener pastures.

griffothefog

30th Aug 2013, 20:03

Sandstruck
You sound like a Qatari metronome..:eek:
Try giving us something realistic :E

True_Indeed

30th Aug 2013, 23:09

Adroight, not everybody has your patience and knowledge in dealing with this kind of people. I am happy that you make everything so simple. If you don't like leave it, it's always been like this in the sandpit ... well not everybody is as used as you are in accepting this fantastic world and it's really banal, not to say silly, your advice of leaving. SO I want to be silly as well: nobody is forcing you to follow this thread so just leave it.

True_Indeed

30th Aug 2013, 23:11

And again What you call whining, that is obvious that cannot be changed into something more specific, has the only intent to open other colleagues' eyes. That's it !

Cheesaburger

31st Aug 2013, 19:06

Heard a rumour one of the guys got sacked but then wasn't allowed to leave - hopefully just a malicious rumour

Stn120

1st Sep 2013, 10:49

I have not been on here for a little while due to travel and also so that I would not prejudice this guy's chances of leaving Qatar. I heard from this guy a few days ago, he is now back in the UK. He was one of those fired in early May. Because he dared to challenge NAPT and lodge an appeal, NAPT would not provide him with an exit visa! Therefore he has been kept in Qatar until last week against his will and is owed 3-4 months salary and benefits. He had to drop the case to aid his exit from Qatar. There was no valid reason for NAPT to keep him there as he had no debt (All loans and credit cards paid off), no criminal cases against him, he tells me that he even went to the CID to prove this and they agreed that there was no reason for the company to deny him exit.He is a regular contributor to PPRUNE and I'm sure that in the fullness of time he will tell his side of what has and is happening in Qatar.If this thread does not make people think twice about taking a job with NAPT and the QEAF then nothing will. It would seem that the "grand fromage" lures people there with the promise of large salaries and luxury living. He then cuts salaries for trivial reasons and will fire you without notice, real reason or cause and withhold pay and benefits. NAPT did not abide by the Qatari labour laws on several accounts (no, surprise there) and it would seem that the contracts that everyone signs are worth less than the paper they are printed on. The luxury living idea seems to be big villas that are sparsely equipped, to achieve the standard it has to be self-financed. Some people I hear are still waiting for reimbursement of school fees as NAPT conveniently keep losing the receipts that are submitted. They have a hold on those who have children in education there as they do not settle school fee bills until months after submission. It will be interesting to see how many stay as their first anniversaries in Qatar approach and if NAPT decide not to pay the annual bonus for whatever reason.

True_Indeed

1st Sep 2013, 18:47

Unfortunately what Stn120 said is ALL CORRECT and just the top of the iceberg about having to deal with this people !!! Adroight and Sandstruck of course think that screwing a man's life is something not important and to share with the net ... for some reason ...

Adroight

2nd Sep 2013, 12:02

It is true indeed that the Sandpit can be an unforgiving place. There has been a thread on here for many years dealing with these issues. They have always been there and always will be there. Perhaps it would have been wise for you and others to read them and/or consult others before committing to joining NAPT. If you signed the contract for the attraction of the tax-free money then simply accept that and put up with the ****. Otherwise leave. You have no sympathy from me and I suspect many others who have been there before.

Act in haste - repent at leisure my friend.

True_Indeed

2nd Sep 2013, 13:35

WOW ! What a man Adroight !!! ... :mad::mad::mad::ugh:

2leftskids

19th Sep 2013, 01:52

New choppers inducted into air ambulance service (http://www.gulf-times.com/qatar/178/details/365995/new-choppers-inducted-into-air-ambulance-service)

Sandpit Sid

24th Sep 2013, 16:22

How is it all going, lots of quality jobs?

Adroight

24th Sep 2013, 22:19

YES! Just ask True Indeed who is loving life in Doha. Happy days :-)

True_Indeed

2nd Oct 2013, 19:18

Quality is not exactly what you will be offered here...

True_Indeed

13th Mar 2014, 21:13

Locals keep lying - People keep leaving ... as easy as that ! :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Stn120

14th Mar 2014, 11:48

The locals will promise you anything and everything to get you there. Once there it will change and you will not get the package offered or there will be a reason not to give you what you were originally told. Added to this, there is the uncertainty that they can (and will) terminate your contract immediately if they so wish just because they feel like it. Excuses for not paying annual bonus's etc. I hear the guys ddi not have internet connected for some months and there are suspicions of monitoring communications etc.

Despite this, if you go there, stash as much cash away as possible, dont spend too much, make sure if you need to, you have an exit strategy so if required you can take your money and run.

Remember! you need your sponsors permission to exit Qatar.

A number of guys have left of their own accord, some have left as a result of the Qatari's terminating contracts early.

From what I've heard, NAPT are useless as an employer but experts at incompetence. Late salary payments, witheld refunds of allowances etc.

How do you know if NAPT personel are lying? Their mouths are moving!

True_Indeed

7th Sep 2014, 15:42

People keep asking me about how is working in Qatar and specifically for QEAF through NAPT.
In order to clarify the situation for good I will pass you two self explanatory links that will give you the right idea of what you are going to find in this particular part of the world ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fa3jV88Rqe8

Driving in Qatar is Like Participating in an Extreme Sport | QATARSUCKS (http://www.qatarsucks.com/Driving_Qatar_Dangerous#comment-11822)

It's your call then...

2leftskids

8th Sep 2014, 05:23

Exactly. If your candy ass can't handle a bit of traffic please don't apply.

True_Indeed

8th Sep 2014, 07:22

Traffic is the very least of the problems ....:ugh::ugh::ugh:

HeliAviator

8th Sep 2014, 08:37

Strange that this post should resurrect after being dormant since May. Although I am not a fan of the QEAF and the way they do business, I feel the jibes at Qatar as a whole is unwarranted. True the traffic can be horrendous, but it is in KSA, Dubai and Abu Dhabi as well. As per the employment of third party nationals, every country has it's immigration and employment issues. Personally, I would not recommend friends and colleagues to apply to NAPT for many of the reasons previously raised in this thread. However, it is all down to personal choice and if they wish to ignore the advice, they have made their bed etc.... :rolleyes: