Exhaust Fumes

[Could be the last?]

Diesel fumes cause cancer, says WHO | Science | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/jun/12/diesel-fumes-cause-cancer-who)

Considering the crap that comes out of the majority of RW engines, and the proximity that Cmn are to the efflux, does anyone know of any studies carried out on the effects to the health of crews?

[Herc-u-lease]

on a similar note, it has been shown there are links between benzene exposure and Acute Myelogenous Leukemia (AML). Benzene is found in fuels; notably in aviation fuels it is at a slightly higher concentration than in regular petrol. Benzene is also generated as a by product of combustion, so if you've been in the efflux, or been near anything nasty that is/was on fire, you could have also been exposed.

I would be curious to know if the leukemia incidence is significantly higher in service personnel in the air environment than a regular civvy.

Proving that your cancer is service attributable is a different story though!

[Pontius Navigator]

How about the spotters at the threshold of most airfields?

[ShyTorque]

I don't see how exposure to spotters could cause cancer.

[NutLoose]

Depends if they're smoking.

[cornish-stormrider]

Or any sooties/lineys that have ever done hot pushbacks or winchbacks or operated under running 199's.

the **** that comes out of the oil breathers - that was worse than jet eflux.....
When it's proven the link between that crap and some horrible disease expect a rather large number of cases.....


IIRC the phrase is "a Rainmaker"

[Milo Minderbinder]

Try these for starters. No I've not read them yet

TOXICOLOGICAL PROFILE FOR JET FUELS JP-4 AND JP-7
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp76.pdf




Evaluating Particulate Emissions from
Jet Engines: Analysis of Chemical and
Physical Characteristics and Potential
Impacts on Coastal Environments and
Human Health
http://areco.org/pdf/ParticulateEmissionsJetEngines1996.pdf





Risk factors of jet fuel combustion products. [Toxicol Lett. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15093276)
Abstract

Air travel is increasing and airports are being newly built or enlarged. Concern is rising about the exposure to toxic combustion products in the population living in the vicinity of large airports. Jet fuels are well characterized regarding their physical and chemical properties. Health effects of fuel vapors and liquid fuel are described after occupational exposure and in animal studies. Rather less is known about combustion products of jet fuels and exposure to those. Aircraft emissions vary with the engine type, the engine load and the fuel. Among jet aircrafts there are differences between civil and military jet engines and their fuels. Combustion of jet fuel results in CO2, H2O, CO, C, NOx, particles and a great number of organic compounds. Among the emitted hydrocarbons (HCs), no compound (indicator) characteristic for jet engines could be detected so far. Jet engines do not seem to be a source of halogenated compounds or heavy metals. They contain, however, various toxicologically relevant compounds including carcinogenic substances. A comparison between organic compounds in the emissions of jet engines and diesel vehicle engines revealed no major differences in the composition. Risk factors of jet engine fuel exhaust can only be named in context of exposure data. Using available monitoring data, the possibilities and limitations for a risk assessment approach for the population living around large airports are presented. The analysis of such data shows that there is an impact on the air quality of the adjacent communities, but this impact does not result in levels higher than those in a typical urban environment.


Biological and h... [J Toxicol Environ Health B Crit Rev. 2003 Jul-Aug] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12775519)
Abstract

Over 2 million military and civilian personnel per year (over 1 million in the United States) are occupationally exposed, respectively, to jet propulsion fuel-8 (JP-8), JP-8 +100 or JP-5, or to the civil aviation equivalents Jet A or Jet A-1. Approximately 60 billion gallon of these kerosene-based jet fuels are annually consumed worldwide (26 billion gallon in the United States), including over 5 billion gallon of JP-8 by the militaries of the United States and other NATO countries. JP-8, for example, represents the largest single chemical exposure in the U.S. military (2.53 billion gallon in 2000), while Jet A and A-1 are among the most common sources of nonmilitary occupational chemical exposure. Although more recent figures were not available, approximately 4.06 billion gallon of kerosene per se were consumed in the United States in 1990 (IARC, 1992). These exposures may occur repeatedly to raw fuel, vapor phase, aerosol phase, or fuel combustion exhaust by dermal absorption, pulmonary inhalation, or oral ingestion routes. Additionally, the public may be repeatedly exposed to lower levels of jet fuel vapor/aerosol or to fuel combustion products through atmospheric contamination, or to raw fuel constituents by contact with contaminated groundwater or soil. Kerosene-based hydrocarbon fuels are complex mixtures of up to 260+ aliphatic and aromatic hydrocarbon compounds (C(6) -C(17+); possibly 2000+ isomeric forms), including varying concentrations of potential toxicants such as benzene, n-hexane, toluene, xylenes, trimethylpentane, methoxyethanol, naphthalenes (including polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons [PAHs], and certain other C(9)-C(12) fractions (i.e., n-propylbenzene, trimethylbenzene isomers). While hydrocarbon fuel exposures occur typically at concentrations below current permissible exposure limits (PELs) for the parent fuel or its constituent chemicals, it is unknown whether additive or synergistic interactions among hydrocarbon constituents, up to six performance additives, and other environmental exposure factors may result in unpredicted toxicity. While there is little epidemiological evidence for fuel-induced death, cancer, or other serious organic disease in fuel-exposed workers, large numbers of self-reported health complaints in this cohort appear to justify study of more subtle health consequences. A number of recently published studies reported acute or persisting biological or health effects from acute, subchronic, or chronic exposure of humans or animals to kerosene-based hydrocarbon fuels, to constituent chemicals of these fuels, or to fuel combustion products. This review provides an in-depth summary of human, animal, and in vitro studies of biological or health effects from exposure to JP-8, JP-8 +100, JP-5, Jet A, Jet A-1, or kerosene.

[NutLoose]

Or Jag see offs out of a HAS, neither of them had engines pointing out of the rear doors so you were simply circulating it round in the HAS until your eyes were stinging and you were breathing fumes.

[The Helpful Stacker]

I must day that, at the time, the possibility of one day being a 'ding ding (potential cancer ridden) wing mong' wasn't really of great concern but I'll bear it in mind.

[AGS Man]

Just read that drinking tea can cause cancer so a few lung fulls of jet fumes during see off then back to the line hut for a cuppa.... Twice screwed!

[Jazzyg]

As an Ex-Wing Mong (Tiswoz) I seem recall the H&S lot turning up at Staffords HLS during the early to mid 90s. We carried out a couple of RTRs on the wessex (mainly front end) whilst a H&S bod with a backpack with sensors took noise and exhaust samples.

Verbally, he told us refuellers, that we were slightly mad stooping beside the exhaust with an open line refuel nozzle, but slightly more worrying, was that his initial readings did cause some concerns regarding the toxicity of emissions and the amount of emissions that an individual was in proximity of throughout the refuel.

However, no surprises when the report came back that, no real risk to health existed! :confused:

Oh well, i guess I'll have to put down my odd behaviour to just being totally mad!!

[Fareastdriver]

On a cold North Sea winter's day with 3 degrees temperature and forty knots of wind the only warm place to supervise the refuelling, luggage loading etc, is underneath the boom in the jet efflux of both engines.

Must have spent hours there.

[Adam Nams]

There was a study done a few years ago and a report was distributed. I have a copy of said report somewhere...

IIRC it was thought that the particulates were of the incorrect size to stay and play in the lungs. Therefore there was no risk.

However, my sooty helmet (:O) said otherwise...

[EngAl]

Is there anyone around who operated the Machine Runway De-icer (MRD)? I believe they had an operator in the cabin between the 2 engines and a driver in the fuel bowser which fuelled and pushed it. How much exposure did they get to the efflux? I didn't pay that much attention, but seem to remember them being out for long periods.

[bvcu]

Clocked quite a few hours in them, dont recall any fumes at all , nice snug cabin in very cold weather, pair of derwents to keep you warm.

[AGS Man]

BVCU
Concur with all that, was nice to be in the snug little hut whilst everybody else was freezing! Bit of a sod when the Tanker clutch went tho!

[MightyGem]

Everything causes cancer and then it doesn't, depending on the day of the week and which paper you're reading.

[glad rag]

Think of all those strong mugs of tea you had too.....

Formaldehyde, the stuff the old speys chucked out in copious amounts. Saw an H&S guy run out of a HAS after taking readings....:sad:

[NutLoose]

Is there anyone around who operated the Machine Runway De-icer (MRD)? I believe they had an operator in the cabin between the 2 engines and a driver in the fuel bowser which fuelled and pushed it. How much exposure did they get to the efflux? I didn't pay that much attention, but seem to remember them being out for long periods.


Suffered a bit of asphaltitus... As i lifted part of the taxy way, :eek: but it was the warmest place to be, if not a tad noisy.

[fantom]

So, which one of you lot was it that lifted the threshold at Valley with that machine in a snowstorm?

[longer ron]

Not me Guv...I am a Rigger LOL

[Bubblewindow]

Before taking to the sky's I was a heavy maintenance tech in our engine shop. As well as avtur and avgas there was all sorts of other fluids we were exposed to daily such as Ardrox and Trichloroethane.
All I know now is that a lot of the guys on the Sqn back then are now suffering from neurological, gut and bowel problems.
And what's worse is there's no proof as regular tests don't show anything so we are being classed as pyscological cases.
"Stress" apparently !!!!

BW

[Rocket2]

Not to mention the lungs being filled with AVPIN fumes at Chivenor & Brawdy - cough cough - where's the number for the claims firm?

[Fareastdriver]

Sue them. Find a 'no win no fee' lawyer to take it up. Years ago I collected £4,500 because somebody had sued the MOD for loss of hearing with helicopter operations.

[Bubblewindow]

where's the number for the claims firm?

If only it were that simple. There's at least ten (so far) ex-Sqn mates who are sick. The military and government know this but are sidestepping and fobbing off any suggestion of neglect despite the fact that in the late 90's several of the chemicals we used to clean engines were banned.
A big admission of guilt came when one guy cracked vertebrae after an accident due to faulty equipment, the government offered him compensation but to sign a waiver that he would not make a claim for toxic poisoning at a later date!!!
Eh....who mentioned anything about toxins???
Ooops Mr.Minister :O

BW

[NutLoose]

An old family friend that recently died was on Christmas island during several tests, he said when they detonated he could see the skeletons in all of his mates, they were instructed to not look directly at the blast, afterwards walking back the normally timid landcrabs were walking into them, it then dawned on him that unfortunately no one could let the land crabs or NAAFI cats know not to look at the blast and they were all blinded, stupid thing is he told me the one thing that at the time disturbed him was when he went in the Naaff1 shop after the first detonation and all of the toothpaste tubes had blown all their caps off.. It worried him because he wondered then what it might have been doing to them.


As for chemicals used Avgas.. Avtur.. Hydraulic Fluids... trich or MEK, I am still using them today, 35 years plus later....

But I no longer tip over 45 gallon drums of trich and squeegee it through a hangar and down the drain as we used to do at Odiham.

[om15]

Does anyone remembers the original NMSU Hangar at Kinloss in 1971? a pre war gloomy place, after working in there for a year or so there was an asbestos scare with stuff coming off the ceiling, the boffins issued some small wooden boxes which were surposed to sample the air that we were breathing, all fitters had to take turns wearing this box on a strap over the shoulder, this took place over several weeks.
Being young JTs we immediatly connected the box inlet to the GPU exhausts, exhaled lung fulls of fag smoke into the inlet and collected as much suspect ceiling flakes as possible to jam into this things, after a while these were taken away and analysed and nothing more was said.

Also scrubbing PRC off arms ( and in KD legs) with MEK was not wise when looking back.

BR om15

[Bubblewindow]

Thanks for your reply NL, it actually helps somewhat piece my puzzle together.
First to clarify , I am not RAF or indeed part of the British forces.

Some of my ex-colleges that are sick were not engine fitters but spray painters so they were not exposed as much to Trich, MEK, or fuels as I was.
They were however exposed to Ardrox and the paints and chemicals used in painting aircraft here until the late 90's.
The venting system from the paintshop (prior to modernisation with booths and the like) was at eye level and just across from the entrance to the engine shop so with the position of the vents and the prevailing wind, it was blown directly into the engine shop.
The entire base has seen modernisation over the past 10 years but, interestingly , the location where the engine shop was is the only space that has been left bare with no new building and there's vents sunk into the soil that was dumped over the foundation.
It all seems a bit suspect!!!
But seen as I'm bluffing (in the eyes of the government), I'll just put up with the headaches, muscle spasms, twinges, sporadic random pains, and IBS until I wither away into the ranks of just another number.

BW

[NutLoose]

Painting is bad News.

you have alodines and alochromes used in metal preparation, on that you have chromic etch primers, zinc chromate primers, then all your paints and their thinners and hardeners...

Getting a common thread here..... Chromates

Occupational Safety and Health Guideline for Zinc Chromate (http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/zincchromate/recognition.html)

http://www.chemical-supermarket.com/files/Henkel%20Alodine%20Conversion%20Coatings/1201%20Alodine,%20MSDS.pdf

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/eis32.pdf

If you are breathing these it is bad news, I use masks when using them, it is one reason later paints are going over to water base top coats etc.

[Bubblewindow]

My Dad worked in a facility during the 40's and 50's that chromed the grab handles and seat rails for buses. He has suffered with gut and bowel problems and has had to have part of his bowel removed since.
The common denominator seems to be heavy metals with everybody I know who has had ailments.

Wonder if I'm being spied in here ??
Sure wouldn't do any harm to let it all out !!

BW

[cornish-stormrider]

Bubblewindow - check PM's please....

And i aint no stinking coppers nark!:E