National Anthems

[alwayslookingup]

Nothing at all to do with Military Aviation, but a question some of you folks may care to answer.

Why, when the ENGLISH Football, and Rugby, teams play do they sing God Save the Queen, the national anthem of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? And. in a similar vein, why do the fans of England predominantly fly the Union Flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and not the very pretty and very acceptable English national flag of Cross of St George?

Each of the other home countries fly their own official national flags and sing their own national anthems (unofficial apart from the Republic of Ireland).

Why don't English fans do the same? Are they not proud to be English? The Cross of St George is the official National Flag, and I'd nominate Hearts of Oak as a stirring and quintessentially English song that would serve admirably as an English National Anthem.

(Blue touchpaper lit, retiring to listen to England v Ukraine. Hope England win).

[High_Expect]

Most England football fans probably think the Union Jack is the flag of England? Kevballtastic :cool:

[Pontius Navigator]

AL, now that the Jubilee is so yesterday you can't buy a Union flag but there are England flags (that is the white one with a red cross and emblazoned with the word England) are everywhere.

OTOH it is difficult to buy a St George's flag either.

Do Scots fly a flag in their cars to warn that thedriver is an idiot or two flags to indicate severe idiocy :)

[dervish]

There are a number of reasons, but the fact the "National Anthem" is actually a rant against Scots explains part of it.

The Scots have their own semi-official anthem "Flower of Scotland", but you'd struggle to find many who actually know who (not what) the "Flower" refers to. Similarly, I'd wager a significant proportion of Union Jacks flying in England today are actually upside down! That's a sign of distress, which is somehow appropriate.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Incidentally, Heart of Oak was written c1759, so I'd suggest that it's a British song - only cause I like it!

You could always have 'Jerusalem' if that's not too un-PC!

Steady. Boys, steady!

Duncs:ok:

Oh, and good luck England.

[billynospares]

Unfortunately if us English do anything patriotic including flying our flag it seems it automatically makes you a racist these days :ugh:

[500N]

Like saying "Happy Christmas", it's offensive !:ugh:

[Basil]

dervish,
AFAIK, "Rebellious Scots to crush" was only briefly in the anthem.
Dunno about the hoi polloi, but I've always understood who the 'flower' were.

Re the Union flag, most will come attached to their little stick so no prob - although, Mrs Bas managed to put one upside down at our door.
When the fussy old sod (that'll be Bas) mentioned this and was told that no one will notice, he replied that yes, his airline and mil acquaintances would! :O

500N - That's it! I'm reporting that post!!!! :)

[racedo]

Since when is Republic of Ireland a "Home nation" ?

Its a separate independent country with no ties to Queen.

[500N]

Bas

I would have a guess that a Union Jack flown upside down by itself - with no other flags for reference - is unlikely to be noticed by the majority of people as most wouldn't know.

Parade ground stuff ups excepted !!!


Bas - report it as much as you like, I will give my best regimental one fingered salute !!! :O

[alwayslookingup]

Billynospares, no it doesn't make you racist, it makes you proud to be English, and that's precisely my point. What's wrong with being proud to be English?

Duncs, I take your point about Hearts of Oak. Since "Great Britain" was formed by the Act of 1707 ratifying the union of England and Scotland (Clause 1) then Hearts of Oak is indeed a song from Great Britain. I wouldn't have a problem with Jerusalem, or any other anthem an England team cares to belt out, so long as it was an ENGLISH national anthem

Racedo, correct and apologies, although the situation is a little more nebulous when it comes to Rugby and the six nations. Whereas the football teams are R of I and Northern Ireland, the Rugby team is called Ireland and draws from both the North and South. Thus, they sing both "The Soldier's Song" (anthem of R of I) ad "Ireland, Ireland", a specially written song to celebrate the union of the North and South in one team.

[maliyahsdad2]

why do the fans of England predominantly fly the Union Flag

When? not since the 80's, I'd wager. Don't you have access to any recent television or newspapers?

[SET 18]

If a union flag is on a "stick" then it can be viewed from both sides as it flutters. Should you view it from the "wrong" side then it will appear to be upside down when it is not. Obviously, the opposite applies to an upside-down flag viewed from the other side.

Several RAF aircraft have a union flag on their tails. If one views the starboard side flag then it will also appear to be upside down...

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Nope!

Duncs:ok:

[dctyke]

I'll agree with the above, nearly every flag at England games is the Red Cross of St George........................ Very few Union Jacks.

[Off Hot]

Simply not true mon brave…

(referring to the 'flag on a stick always appears upside down from one side' comment…)

[alwayslookingup]

What about the National Anthem?

[Tankertrashnav]

Yes I was puzzled about that maliyah'sdad- I agree with the OP as regards the singing of the (British) national anthem, but it seems to me that the English flag has been pretty ubiquitous, at least since 1998 or whenever it was when "football came home" and we hosted the European Championship. That was the first time I saw England flags fluttering from cars.

I think that if alwayslookingup looked straight ahead instead of up he might find he has been imagining all those Union Jacks!

Definitely time England had a suitable anthem, and the National anthem could be kept for non-sporting occasions

[500N]

Off Hot

Have a look at these

Displayed both ways on the bunting

London Apartments - Queen’s Jubilee, Celebrating The Queen's 60 Year Diamond Jubilee (http://lovingapartments.com/London-Event-Queen8217s-Jubilee-poi-10317-en.html)

Multiple options !!!
Workers forced to sleep in open at Jubilee: reports (http://www.working.com/edmonton/story.html?id=6762587)

[Roland Pulfrew]

Why, when the ENGLISH Football, and Rugby, teams play do they sing God Save the Queen, the national anthem of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Well I suppose you could argue, that as the country is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" then correct anthem for all four "home nations" is The National Anthem. As you point out, the others are only semi-official! :E

[Samuel]

I thought "A Soldier's Song"" was/is the official Irish Anthem, but largely superseded by "Ireland's Call", and I notice at both rugby tests between the All Blacks and Ireland currently in NZ it was the latter song that was sung.

[pianydd]

What happens now at the Commonwealth Games? I have a vague memory that the home nations sang their own anthems, and 'Land of Hope and Glory' was sung when England won a gold medal. Unsure on that, but if incorrect, will no doubt be advised accordingly.

[racedo]

Irish rugby is a All Ireland sport hence why interchange Anthem of Irish Republic and afforementioned Irelands call.

My Irish rugby mates have fairly clear comments on Irelands call mostly unrepeatable.........

[Cpl Plod]

Do Scots fly a flag in their cars to warn that the driver is an idiot or two flags to indicate severe idiocy

Not sure you'd be able to buy a vehicle borne saltire, not much demand for them.

Last time the Jockenese qualified for a major tournament was over 14 years ago (France 98) when they got a bit of sun and a point from a 1-1 with Norway and were back home within a fortnight :ok:

They do have a keen interest in supporting all the major tournaments, just not their closest neighbours.

http://www.nileguide.com/destination/blog/edinburgh/files/2010/07/copy-of-anyone-but-england-t-shirt-2-766-p.jpg

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[India Four Two]

While we are on the subject of National Anthems, I've spent many years in Canada and the States. Although I'm not a US citizen, I really like the "Star Spangled Banner", not only because of the rousing tune but also the words.

Not many of my American friends realize this, but the "rockets" causing the "red glare" were British! :E

Congreve rocket - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congreve_rocket)

[Halton Brat]

The only time you will see a Union Jack is when flown from the (bow) jackstaff of HM War Canoe berthed alongside or at anchor.

Otherwise, it is the Union Flag.........

HB

[Motleycallsign]

Well said HB. I saw a Union flag the other day that had been printed with the correct format on the top half and an upside down format on the lower half - very confusing for a minute. Why not have 'Land of Hope and Glory' as the England national anthem and 'God Save the Queen' when Her Majesty is present, or it's a UK team playing ie the British Lions etc.

[AGS Man]

Since sports teams have been brought up lets look at Cricket. No National Anthems at Test matches (unless the Queen is making her annual visit to Lords) but the England Team have Jerusalem blaring out as the teams take the field. It actually gets most of the crowd up on their feet and singing it and at least one Test Cricketer has admitted he found it intimidating!. Scotland and Ireland have their own cricket teams but England has first shout on their players so shouldn't the England team be the UK team? Tin hat on awaiting incoming!
ps Didn't the Americans fly the Union Flag upside down recently during Camerons visit?

[salad-dodger]

so shouldn't the England team be the UK team?
no

S-D

[diginagain]

I'm with Billy Connolly on this one; the theme from 'The Archers' is easy-enough to learn.

[Avionker]

I suspect part of the problem is that Eng-er-land is so large, in comparison to the other Home Nations, that they don't have a unified National identity. There is no English national dress, is there a national dish? A traditional dance?

If you were to ask a Geordie, a Yorkshireman, a Cornish man and a Man of Kent (or a Kentish man, they can't even agree on that and they're from the same county....) what a quintessentially English dish was, would they agree with each other?

Morris dancing is very English isn't it? But then again dancing around with bells tied around your legs, and hitting each other on the head with a piece of wood is hardly stirringly patriotic is it?

[Tester_76]

I thought "A Soldier's Song"" was/is the official Irish Anthem, but largely superseded by "Ireland's Call", and I notice at both rugby tests between the All Blacks and Ireland currently in NZ it was the latter song that was sung.

That is the anthem of the Republic of Ireland/EIRE/Free state. Irelands Call was written to be an inclusive anthem which recognises the presence of players from NI. Soldier song is only played at home games; away games gets the Ireland Call treatment.

[diginagain]

Morris dancing is very English isn't it? But then again dancing around with bells tied around your legs, and hitting each other on the head with a piece of wood is hardly stirringly patriotic is it? Patriotic or not, I fear it'll be an integral part of the opening ceremony at Seb's big sportsfest.

[mikip]

I always thought that 'land of hope and glory' was effectively the English national anthem. You have got to remember though that succesive governments have pursued a policy of 'English patriotism' BAD, Scottish, Welsh or Irish patriotism GOOD, look at the last census form where you could say that you were Scottish, Welsh, Irish or British but not English and why no purely English parliament........ rant rant rant rant

[mini]

That is the anthem of the Republic of Ireland/EIRE/Free state. Irelands Call was written to be an inclusive anthem which recognises the presence of players from NI. Soldier song is only played at home games; away games gets the Ireland Call treatment.

The official "anthem" of the Irish rugby team is "Ireland's Call" as stated, it is an inclusive anthem due to the fact that the team comprises players from both parts of the island.

The Eire anthem "The Soldiers Song" is only played at home games when the President is in attendance, its a protocol issue, nowt to do with rugby.

[Shack37]

I suspect part of the problem is that Eng-er-land is so large, in comparison to the other Home Nations, that they don't have a unified National identity. There is no English national dress, is there a national dish? A traditional dance?

If you were to ask a Geordie, a Yorkshireman, a Cornish man and a Man of Kent (or a Kentish man, they can't even agree on that and they're from the same county....) what a quintessentially English dish was, would they agree with each other?


You could ask the same question of a Spanish/Catalunian/Basque, a French/Breton/Basque/Parisian or any combination of regional identities within many countries. There is no National Dress/Dish but a host of regional ones. Take Spain as one example, Flamenco is regarded as a typical Spanish dance/culture but is in fact, traditional Andalusian.

[Gemini Twin]

National dish, I was going to suggest my favourite Yorkshire pudding but I suppose that would by too regional. How about Spotted Dick and custard.

[pr00ne]

Vindaloo!


Excellent English dish, bloody good song.