£15m RAF planes re-fit contract

[mrmrsmith2]

BBC News - BAE Prestwick wins £15m RAF planes re-fit contract (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18494721)

[Avionker]

Is the 146 really the best choice of aircraft for the RAF, or is it just a combination of cost and 'flying the flag'? Would something like a 737 combi not have been a better choice?

[Willard Whyte]

I suspect the reason lies here:

The BAE 146 aircraft were bought for about £4m from Belgium's TNT Airways.

With the emphasis being on £4M.

Gotta fill the K-gap with something. I suppose the '146 at least has decent short field performance, one wonders what it's like in hot 'n high conditions though.

[EODFelix]

WW,

Regarding the 146 performance I refer you to RAF News 15/6/12 Page 3

"Its superior hot and high performance compared to other transport assets means that we can operate throughout Afghanistan at any time day or night"

From 32 Sqdn spokesman MP

[Willard Whyte]

Was he told to say it or did it come from the heart? Don't think there's been a 'controversial' piece in Pravda for a while.

[HaveQuick2]

"for delivery in March 2013."

Doesn't the "U" in UOR signify Urgent?

[Milo Minderbinder]

I don't know if these are from the same batch, but I still have memories of a visit from a TNT sales rep around the time the 146 Combi / Freighter was announced twenty years or so ago.
The story was that TNT had done a deal to be the exclusive customer for this variant for the first ten years, that they would lease all that BAe produced and then sublet them as required. I've forgotten the numbers involved, but a couple of hundred sticks in the memory. She claimed that they were specifically intended to be capable of flying into remote / short airfields with hot / high capability included by design. Essentially TNT flew parcels anywhere and everywhere, and needed a large global fleet that could get anywhere.
I've no idea what happened to the contract, but at face value the aircraft as described to me at the time would seem to suit the need now.
............................................................ .......

edit
PS I seem to remember a major financial crash not long after, leaving TNT holding aircraft it couldn't use and trying to renegotiate the contract - hence the difference between the numbers she was talking about and the numbers actually built

[Avionker]

A little digging around seems to support the 'hot and high' performance claims. If the intention is to operate from rough fields within Afghanistan, as opposed to just between the UK and Kandahar, perhaps it is a good choice.

Maybe I was a little too sceptical, but I'm used to working on aircraft with full size engines as opposed to podded APUs hanging off the wings. ;)

[Basil]

Was he told to say it or did it come from the heart?
Years ago, recollect C17 Sqn Ldr becoming a bit miffed when I expressed concern about operational restrictions alleged to have been placed on his aircraft by the nation of manufacture.

[Stuff]

We also have trained crews and a proven DAS fit for the 146, same cannot be said for 737.

[airborne_artist]

Have they solved the 146 air quality issues (http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-297115.html)?

[Sook]

According to the Flight article below:

Each of the adapted 146M aircraft will be capable of carrying fewer than the type's standard 96 passengers, due to the hot temperature and high-altitude environment encountered in Afghanistan, and due to the volume of equipment carried by combat personnel.

PICTURE: Ex-TNT BAe 146s enter conversion for Royal Air Force (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/picture-ex-tnt-bae-146s-enter-conversion-for-royal-air-force-373116/)

[AGS Man]

We see the odd 146 / RJ here every now and then and they certainly don't need much of our stretches of motorway in the middle of the desert! Hot? Is 35 degrees + in summer hot enough, high? 4800ft ASL. What is the definition of hot and high or is it a sliding scale with runway length added?

[Buster Hyman]

Milo. Those TNT 146's were the brainchild of Peter Abeles. A lot of Ansett's troubles began around this time as we seemed to be funding this purchase. I think the idea was a failure, but one tends to get this when one thinks of Airfreight as glorified Road freight... :hmm:

[Sideshow Bob]

What is the definition of hot and high or is it a sliding scale with runway length added?

Suppose it's conditions that take you to your WAT limit. Doesn't matter how long the runway is you're not going to lift off any heavier.

[Sook]

I presume they will also have to attain a reasonably high rate of climb when coming out of theatre which may limit the AUTOW further. I wouldn't have thought departing Bastion at max achieveable AUTOW for the temp/elevation only to proceed low level for several mile would be very popular with the crews!

[StopStart]

"Its superior hot and high performance compared to other transport assets means that we can operate throughout Afghanistan at any time day or night"

I nearly had seizure fom laughing so much after reading that :rolleyes: Good ole Pravda. Why don't the RAF just present this as what it is - a cheap, temporary sticking plaster for the large festering, pustulent running sore that is the current state of the RAF's theatre/tactical lift capability?

Very sad. :(