Become a LAME after ADF Service

[djtrv]

G'day all,

Im very new to this so please be kind....

Can anyone help me or point me in the right direction to become a LAME in the civi world.

Currently I'm serving in the RAAF and have my Cert IV Aeroskills - Avionics. I am finding it very difficult to get clear instructions from CASA and other forums on what it takes to get my licence. Things like, do i need to get a diploma first or will OJT suffice?

I know that i will basically need to get a job for a company working on the type i want to be licenced, but is that all it takes? plus a few exams from CASA? and is this B1/B2 licence the be-all-and-end-all of a licence?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[blackbook]

Contact Aviation Australia they will be able to answer your questions.

[Salusa]

Take a look at:

A Guide for Australian Defence Force Personnel
and Foreign Licensed Aircraft Maintenance
Engineers Seeking Recognition of Licenses and
Authorisations

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/ame/download/ctc_215b.pdf

[rmm]

While not wanting to sound pessimistic you may want to keep an eye on what's occurring at Qantas if your planning to go in the airline direction. With the current redundancies and more to come you may find yourself competing with some very experienced people. On top of that some avionic functions have passed to the B1 guys. Then you have the A licence which is a watered down B1 licence which airlines will use to cut costs.

[djtrv]

Thank you for your replies, i'm very appreciative.

Blackbook, I have contacted them (AA) and all they can give me is an RPL assessment for my current qualifications, which i need from CASA anyway. I still want to know if a B2 licence requires a Diploma in Aeroskills, not just a cert iv, if you could answer me that.

Salusa, I have been on that part of the CASA website and it is only for guys in the ADF which hold the rank of CPL or above (which i am not). I have been informed that i still need to send CASA my qualifications to be recognised as an AME anyway. (thanks ADF for having it's own ridiculous regulations)

RMM, I can see what your on about. I have been watching the news with a close eye and your right in what your saying. the aviation industry looks bleak and to be in some tough times and redundancies and cut-backs is a BIG issue. However in my view, putting in some hard yards to get to a B2 licence and going down the airline direction, albeit with a level of uncertainty, is still far better then wasting any more time in the ADF as a aircraft maintainer, which is an absolute joke at the best of times.

Cheers

[Long Bay Mauler]

I doubt if you would need a Diploma yet,as I have not heard of anyone in the airlines having a diploma in aircraft maintenance,although I am sure the leeches in the TAFE/Aeroskills arena would love to squeeze more money out of anyone associated in aircraft maintenance in Australia.As it stands at present, Aviation Australia are charging AMEs & LAMEs $14K for upgrading your qualifications to unrestricted B1, so God only knows what they will slug a potential B2.

At present you only need a trade certificate,which a Cert IV is,so basically keep a log of anything you do,signed by a certifier. Combine that with an aircraft type course(e.g. B737,helicopter,etc) with your SOE for that type,and you are on your way,which I imagine most LAMEs will tell you takes a few years,even with OJT or PCT or whatever you want to call it.

Best of luck

[opalops]

Try These guys for RPL and they also do the training to have your restriction removed. They are CASA approved. Have used them myself to have my restrictions removed for my B1.1. hope this helps
cheers


Dave Newman
Manager – Trades Training
Aerospace Training Services

[email protected]
(m) +61 (0)414 694 016
(p) +61 (0)2 4421 0878
(f) +61 (0)2 4421 5407
(s) dave.newman723

PO Box 379
Berry, NSW, 2535
AUSTRALIA

[spanner90]

Yes, you can still do CASA Basics and SOE. But why? If you already have a trade qual (ie Cert IV), and have maintained currency, just get the Diploma. Shop around until you find someone you would like to deal with. After all there are only 4 ROs in Australia, it won't take long...
BTW, if you contact CASA, and want to do the CTC exam, they will tell you to see an RO, particularly if you're ex-ADF.
Feel free to PM me if you want more info, or if you disagree... fill your boots!

[Kev85]

The biggest problem you will have is finding someone to employ you. Many Raafies have gone through before you and sucked big time. Military aircraft maintainers have a very bad name in civi street.

[flame_bringer]

Call aviation australia and clarify your particular case to them and they'll give you clear guidlines on how to get your CASA license after having served in the ADF and the dispensation you get in the experience requirment.
However it's more advisable to look into taking the EASA license instead since both CASA and EASA are supposed to merge in the future and the EASA license is recognized in australia as well as almost worldwide whilst CASA is only recognized in australia (hence jobs prospects are only limited to australia) and most CASA licensed people are looking into converting to EASA already.
By the way if you're still in the ADF stay put untill you find a job as a fitter in one of the airlines then think about doing the EASA or CASA modules once having secured a job already since jobs are scarce nowadays..
Good luck

[Hasherucf]

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - Australian Defence Force Personnel (http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_90487)



Go GA mate , plenty of work there . Avoid the politics of the airlines.

Saying that GA/Airlines/Military are all different types of people ;-)

[djtrv]

Thanks everyone for all your feedback, there's nothing like getting info from real people who are actually in the business!

Opalops, I am still waiting to hear from them, similar to what AA do in that they look at your work history (SOE).

Spanner90, if you could elaborate on what you said... do you think it's wise to get the Diploma, if all i need is my Cert IV with OJT and CASA exams, is it really worth it? I know it would look good on a resume, but how many guys in the current trade have one i wonder.

Kev85, what do you mean by a 'bad name'. I hold no grudge at all and the reason i want to get into the civi world is because of the bulls*** that goes on in the military. I'd like to know, out of curiosity, what airliners/maintainers and the rest, think of serving members. do you reckon that would hinder my job prospects?

Flame_Bringer, I have been in contact with AA and all they have got to offer is a qualification assessment with a big fee. beyond that, they won't say. seems as though they want me to hand over a significant sum before they will do anything.

Hasherucf, I have heard that from other forums, I can't seem to find any real info on that part of the industry, are you working in GA? all i heard from some is that the pay is less but better work.... I'd also like to hear what 'kind of people' the military are? Don't worry, i won't give repercussions because i think the military way is a bit of a joke to be honest

Cheers again for all the replies!!!

[opalops]

djtrv


Hi
Yes he will require all your work history from the day you started in the industry SOE, any courses you have done,etc and any thing that you deem relevant for him to assess . The more the better.
Oh Yes he can be a bit slow in getting back to you, the best way is to get him on his mobile he is only in the office on Thursdays from memory.
Hey good luck hope all goes well for you.
Cheers
opal

upcoming course dates (http://www.aerots.com.au/upcoming_course_dates.html)

[Kev85]

Many military guys have worked for different civilian companies and have either had a **** know it all attitude or have actually been **** engineers. Being from the military will usually hinder you more than help. There is a big perception that if a military aircraft has a defect, there is no quick rush to fix it, where in civy street there is quite often no spare and it needs to fly to make money. Even though there is a large number of ex military guys in civy street, they tend to be guys who got out along time ago. A lot of companies will look at ex military guys these days as **** and you have to prove your the 1 guy who isn't.

I got out of the military and have experienced all the above. I also know a number of guys who haven't made it as well. Now that I have made it to becoming a LAME, I will remove the military background from my resume when applying for jobs in the future.

[Long Bay Mauler]

Don't worry, you'll be right, as you will be re-racked in good time.

:ok:

[djtrv]

Opalops, thanks, i may resort to his mobile if i don't hear back soon.

Kev85, I can understand what you mean, becuase the military is technically non-profit, there isn't a rush to do anything. We don't have customers demanding a product essentially. "hurry up and wait" is a proverb most members live by and as an ex-member i'm sure you know it well.
I think the ADF is a place for '**** engineers' to work because once they get in, it's very hard for them to be booted out based on their technical ability. I see it everyday working with some people that would be better suited to a stable hand then actually fixing aircraft. Plus the ADF spoon feeds everyone so they can just get away with it!

From what you say, the hardest part for me may be getting my foot in the door.
Could I ask what road you went down once you got out of the ADF and then on to become a LAME?

thanks Bug-a-lugs, I'm sure i will be!

Cheers everyone.

[Hasherucf]

Hi djtrv

Yep I'm a GA LAME and have worked with military and airline types. I find military ,especially the navy guys, very well trained . I think the trouble comes when military guys direct to the workplace and find it very hard to fit in. Of course there isn't rank and not everything is by the book . There is little manufacturers support and most military guys have only worked on 1 or 2 types in there careers.

As for pay it depends where you intend to work and how many hours you put in. I would say give it a go as you might like it. Got good friends that are ex military that have made successful GA LAME's

Airlines guys have a rep for sitting around and drinking coffee :}

[Kev85]

I took lwop from the military and worked as a casual for a corporate GA company. Picked up my elec and radio licence, and while there I applied to all the regional airlines in Australia and was accepted by 1. Once u get your foot in the door and prove your not the usual **** military guy you will be fine.

[Spitfire.]

qantas avionics ame here -

You have 2 options to get a licence.

1. Do all your casa basics before June 26-ish, 2015 + aircraft type SOE + Aircraft type course = license on type.

Or

2. Diploma + Aircraft type SOE + Type Course = licence.

I'm based in brisbane. There are jobs around here and there, whether you get it, who knows. Military guys ARE respected at qantas, you guys are considered the pinnacle of training here in aus, so don't believe that guy.

[Kev85]

Spitfire,

its good to hear that someone respects ex-military personal. I am yet to encounter any yet though. Everyone I speak to is more than happy to bad mouth my back ground, including airline guys. Im sure if the original poster really wants this, he will manage to get there and prove everyone wrong.

[djtrv]

Spitfire, Is that what you are currently doing? I think the option 1 would be the best for me. If I can get away with not doing the extra tafe Diploma stuff then I will. Im hoping to get my foot in the door at the start of next year so hopefully that will allow me enough time to get my licence before CASA completely goes over to the part 66.

Kev85, That is the road i'll take, take lwop just in case it all turns bad and worse scenario, I have to go back to defence. But getting my foot in the door could be harder then I first anticipated.

Hashercuf, GA is definitely worth a look. I think I'll take what ever I can get to start off with and go from there.

Cheers again!

[Spitfire.]

I've done number 1 except the type course and quite a large chunk of SOE for the hard to get chapters.

Some things I forgot to mention...

> The steps I outlined to getting a license are applicable to the airliner ame's, but i'm not 100% sure if it applies to GA ame's.

> There are people out there that will advise you that you are no longer eligible to sit your CASA basics. This is untrue! Even if you have not sat ANY (meaning, none at all) casa basic exam in the past, you will still be able to book and sit for CASA basic exams before the 26-ish of june 2015. Apart from taking my word for it, I also have it in black and white from an official of CASA Licencing and Rego Centre (CLARC).

Be aware, if you choose number 1 path, you better be confident that you're going to get a license before 2015, because as it currently stands, i don't think casa/ a RTO will "RPL" your casa basics, meaning, you will have to do the diploma any way rendering your efforts to complete the CASA basics a complete waste of time and money.

> About the diploma, i'm not sure if you are aware of how this runs. so i'll touch on it a little.
There are 2 things you (maybe?) and I did to get our trade, theory (class) and practical (journal). There aren't any "exams" per se, for the diploma, because your pass marks (>75%) for all your theory subjects are considered acceptable to be issued a licence. So all you have to do to get the diploma is a couple of assignments which, without going into detail, focus on management of yourself and others as a hypothetical LAME in the industry, and some additional MEA's for your journal to be done as well, not to mention a good dose of human factors training.

Easy? Yes. Cheap? No. The costs for this are in the mid to high $,$$$.

This, is probably the best way to go for you i would suggest, given that I/you don't know if and how casa or an RTO intend to recognise your/our CASA basic exams if we don't get a licence before 2015.

good luck. you're gonna need it in the current climate. Definitely take LWOP if you can, it certainly helps to have a fall back plan.

All the best mate. :ok:

[Ochi]

I am planning to come and work in perth as an aircraft technician and I do not hold any license but I do have 4 years working experience in atr, dash 8,crj and fokker 27. Do I stand any chances in getting a good descent job?

Though I do want to seat for Casa License later in the year.... :O

[Kev85]

Ochi,

try Skywest ( Fokker 50's) or Skippers Aviation ( Dash 8's).

[aveng]

Im hoping to get my foot in the door at the start of next year so hopefully that will allow me enough time to get my licence before CASA completely goes over to the part 66.

Is this going to allow you enough time? For full avionics there are lots of exams (24 ish?)and only so many sittings, also assume you might have to do the odd re-sit. I would sit down and track out all the required exams and the number of sittings and see if it will work. Dont forget you have to be submitting your SOE etc for your licence before June 2015.