New rotorcraft concepts

[Andy Healey]

What potential do you think the BA609, X2 and X3 have within the civil rotorcraft sector. Disregarding payload, does one fit the offshore/EMS/public transport profile more than the other? What concerns would you need to see addressed? In ten years time, will all three be flying?

Your thoughts please. I am writing an article but would only use quotes anon, and on agreement. Really.

[DauphinDude]

I could see tiltrotors doing offshore transportation in the future, but as of now none are configured to those needs. I think the X´s will find its place in military aviation.

[Savoia]

I think there are many of us who were initially surprised that a civilian tilt-rotor failed to emerge but .. I have to say, once you consider the reason why, (cost) it isn't entirely surprising.

My personal view is that the X2 concept as envisioned in the form of the Raider (http://raider.sikorsky.com/) is the most viable platform for enhanced performance VTOL ops where an increase in cruising speed is the desired objective.

Should a form of this craft one day be offered to civilian buyers I am sure it would make a fascinating (albeit initially expensive) alternative to some of the types we are familiar with.

[Andy Healey]

Thanks both. Scalability is key. Looking ahead, if they get the cabin size right, I guess it will boil down to money as usual. Will complicated tilt-rotor be the most expensive to operate? That's my guess, both X-craft claim simpler power trains.

Any comments? Background only now, no quotes at all.

[Savoia]

Andy I'm no expert on this but I think it would be fair to assume that the tilt-rotor is by far the more expensive (both to build and operate) out of the three.

As you know, the X3 uses 'caterpillar-style-braking' technology ;) for yaw control necessitating two thrust generators to achieve this and with that comes the expense of drive trains and gearboxes.

I personally believe that the X2's 'additional' rotor may turn-out to be the most cost-effective solution.

Cost aside .. there are certain landing/ground-handling (manoeuvering) restrictions which apply with both the tilt-rotor and X3. In the case of the former one needs to consider an increase in the landing area requirement as well as the implications of the vehicle's impressive downwash and with the latter (in its testbed configuration) the problem of side-mounted props just waiting to dice-up the craft's pax.

[lowfat]

The tilt rotor may have a market for deep sea oil production but in it's present form the payload is non-effective.

[paco]

I've always seen a market for the tiltrotor or the equivalent - in countries where helicopters simply don't have the range. Cost aside, it would work very well. The problem is that people confuse the issue - it is not meant to replace the helicopter as I see it, but to have different qualities, much the same way that a microwave does a lot that an ordinary oven does, but it is not a complete replacement. Thus, the fact fact that it might not be as good a lifter is irrelevant IMHO.

Phil

[lowfat]

Of Course payload is relevant if in its current guise the AW609 is 6 to 9 passengers. if you can carry them AND baggage say 300 nm very quickly that is what the oil companies will pay for. if you can only carry 2 that far you lose.
The extra cost of operation over an already expensive helicopter only gains over a distance.

[Shawn Coyle]

I can't understand why no-one has used electric fans for auxiliary propulsion. Electric motor technology has progressed to being light enough and powerful enough to be considered for thrust - and eliminates the complexity of mechanical drive systems.

[Gemini Twin]

"In ten years time, will all three be flying?"

Yes, if they meet the required needs of the operator and allow profitability.

No, if the same needs can be met by a "conventional" machine that does the same work for less.

[chcoffshore]

With deep water drilling and the distances involved then a tilt rotor will become a option in the coming years.

[DennisK]

Hallo Andy ... I've just completed an article on 'Hi-speed helis in the future' for Flyer Aug issue out in July. You're more than welcome to use any items for quotes. Best wishes. DRK

[HeliTester]

With deep water drilling and the distances involved then a tilt rotor will become a option in the coming years.

The operational performance requirements to accommodate an engine failure when taking off from or landing on an offshore helideck are becoming more stringent. Does anyone know if a tilt rotor machine will have enough OEI power to comply?

[Upland Goose]

There may just be a possibility that the solution to long offshore flights, with an ability to hold a "hover" at the business end, could come in a completely novel way - HAV?

Loads of of problems to overcome, of course, and the discussion would move off the Rotorheads site on PPrune, but the oil industry may have to think laterally to move forward, or go further.

I flew the B 609 simulator back in 1998 and liked it immensely, my organistaion (corporate aviation) placed an order, but withdrew when the project became prolonged and somewhat indistinct. Whatever happens, the future will be fascinating and we must still be prepared for surprises. UG:ok:

[John R81]

Or mixing rotorwing lift with aeroplane flight might get you this

Universal Hovercraft - UH-18SPW Hoverwing