View Full Version : Homophobia towards Cabin Crew
10th Jun 2012, 08:46
I'm doing some research for an article i'm writing for my blog regarding Homophobia towards Cabin Crew in the work place.
Stereotypically a male in a CC's role is seen by many of the general public as being gay. Of course this is ridiculous as I know MANY straight CC. I want to know what are your thoughts on this, and have any of you ever experienced any homophobia towards you whilst in work?
There is plenty around.... Depends on the airline how overt it is. Sad to say!
Most people you would never know they were gay, others rub it in your face (the latter I do not appreciate)
10th Jun 2012, 11:27
I'm not gay, but my boyfriend is.
10th Jun 2012, 16:29
If this really has to be discussed could we please back off the jokes, especially those that are as old as the hills.
I could understand an article about Homophobia: I just struggle to imagine why it should be airline industry specific? Are you trying to establish that it is more prevalent in this industry than in some other? Statistically, we are surely all more likely to encounter Homophobia while working as Cabin Crew than while working on a construction site, for no other reason than that there are likely to be a higher proportion of the workforce that are gay. In fact, nobody would be surprised if there were less homophobia within the airline industry than elsewhere given that we're nearly all used to it and don't really give a damn either way.
Finally, in the interest of balance, do make sure that you discuss Reverse Homophobia, sometimes known as the "Gay Mafia" which is of course an issue, although probably less so.
G&T ice n slice
10th Jun 2012, 17:03
speaking as a non-gay, non-cabincrew (cargo side of the business, yes, I know, "yeeugh, hawk, spit").... the world seems to fall into 2 sets of people
(a) people I like
(b) people I don't
with me you have to work pretty hard to fall into cat(b) above and I would guess that over 50% in cat-b are not gay, and those that are gay are the sort of people that would be obnoxious full stop.
Oddly I would also guess that of all the gay types that do fall into cat-b 99% are of the female gender.
I would also guess that over the years the people I have most enjoyed working with have been 'openly' gay, because they have no hang ups and can laugh at life, which is quite a morale booster when everything that could go wrong has and you have 5 minutes to get it sorted before the boss comes back...
Surely in this day'n'age none of this should remain an issue???
10th Jun 2012, 20:50
Simple truth is that most professional pilots are conservative with a small 'c'. In the UK, the vast majority are male, caucasian and if they have any religion at all would probably classify themselves as CoE or RC. In isolation these facts mean little but could tend to lead to certain attitudes to many things such as homophobia as but one example, usually unspoken, to which some others may take exception. Not right or wrong just life.
10th Jun 2012, 21:25
Thank God things have changed since the 80's where some flight deck in London Airways refused to be served by 'known' gay cabin crew.
Homophobia has no place in the workplace. However dealing with immigrants from Muslim countries as I do now is a real problem when it comes to gay issues.
10th Jun 2012, 22:52
I'm gay cabin crew but straight acting (don't get your boxers in a twist RE: that term, it's a figure of speech) and never really encountered homophobia in any part of my life. Alot of passengers do either automatically assume and on numerous occasions I have been asked if I am gay......by both male and female passengers purely because of the job that I do. That doesn't bother me personally and to be honest, in the UK atleast, the stereotype can be pretty spot on. For example, at my base 80% of the guys are gay. There are very few occupations where gays (openly gay that is) are so prevelent. Some may argue that Manchester bases tend to be popular because of the City's gay scene but other bases around the country also have a disproportionate amount of gay crew.
As I said, I have never experienced homophobia from passengers though apart from a bit of occasional light hearted banter from groups of lads/stags which is never offensive and quite often lapped up by crew.
Most people you would never know they were gay, others rub it in your face (the latter I do not appreciate)
Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Overly camp guys sometimes fuel the gay stereotype in my opinion but you're view point 'comes across' as homophobic. I hear that on occasions..... "I don't mind gays aslong as they don't rub my face in it" kind of sentiments. Camp guys can be very affluent and flirtacious which is noticable but no more so than straight culture....whether that be page 3 models in the Sun or groups of lads and stags. Are you saying that it's ok for one but not the other?
11th Jun 2012, 09:05
In my experience within BA there is very little anti gay feeling in fact the opposite.
Some of the best cabin crew I worked with were gay. I met a small number of 'bitchy' gays but they also had a very professional approach to the job.
There was a little group of macho men, at Gatwick, who formed a little club ( I can't remember the name now) which was basically anti gay. They even wore a little tie pin badge to identify each other.
Outside of the airline industry people assume if you are male and cabin crew then you must be gay.
I have had many quizzical looks from people when I say what I do for a living!
11th Jun 2012, 09:16
Thanks everyone for your replies, they are very much appreciated.
To Tightslot I am fully aware that there is homophobia in all walks of life and across all jobs and industries. However, the reason why I have asked cabin crew is becauise the article I am writing is cabin crew related, for a cabin crew related blog hence why it is airline specific.
I too am gay cabin crew and would class myself as 'straight acting' as easyflyer says. However, I have experienced homophobia from both fellow crew and passengers. I am curious to see why people stereotype our role as being 'gay' if you will and how, over the years opinons may or may not have changed.
11th Jun 2012, 13:33
I am curious to see why people stereotype our role as being 'gay' if you will and how, over the years opinons may or may not have changed.
I do believe easyflyer answered that question. One can hardly call it stereotyping, when in actual fact the majority of male cabin attendants - at least in the western world - are indeed gay. I don't have a problem with that, neither race or religion, but you're basically saying people from Northern Nigeria are being stereotyped as "black muslims". Uhm, yeah, that's because they by and large are ..
11th Jun 2012, 16:56
SMT member, this is exactly what I was talking about. I actually disagree with you. At my base there is a (relatively) equal amount of both gay and straight male cabin crew. Indeed many crew I know at our European bases are straight and when I have operated from a number of these bases and we have got onto the subject, many, many I have spoken to have said that (or at least claimed) they are straight. So while it maybe stereotypically a 'gay' role, I slightly disagree that, nowadays at least, it is predominatley gay man in the industry.
In any case, we're kind of going slightly off the reason why I opened the thread in the first place (partly my fault I admit). I wish to know that gay or straight have any crew members been subject to any homophobic abuse or bullying whilst working as crew. If so how did it make you feel etc?
If you go outside of Europe you might find as a gay man, or even just as a man you cant work as cabin crew.
There are a number of airline who only employ female cabin crew. This is perfectly legal in their countries.
One issue that was touched upon before is a gay person offending a Muslim, for those of you operating into countries where homosexuality is illegal?
How does the airline deal with this while complying with UK and EU law, having to roster a crew member who in effect could be arrested on arrival at a foreign port.
Sounds like a legal nightmare for the airline to keep everyone happy!
11th Jun 2012, 19:44
Homosexuality may be illegal in many countries but this doesn't make it any less prevalent amongst the people who live there. In my experience, in more sexually repressed countries, gay sexual activity is actually more common and privately, if not officially accepted in a very "hush hush" way.
Actually being gay is not normally illegal and the notion of being gay is not recognised as being possible. Rather the sexual activity between two people of the same sex is, or certain sexual activity in many cases. Even the most strict countries do not refuse entry to gay crew or arrest them upon arrival. In these countries, airlines would certainly advise discretion....but they would to all crew regardless whether they are gay or straight. Ironically in Saudi Arabia it would be acceptable for two gay men to walk hand in hand as this is not considered a sign of homosexuality. But a male and female couple could be arrested for doing so unless they could prove they were married.
Im a bisexual crew member & have never experienced any anti-gay feeling from anyone at work....be it management, pilots, passengers or other crew.
11th Jun 2012, 22:16
I am not gay, and I have never witnessed any bullying per se towards my gay colleagues onboard our aircraft. However, being close friends with 2 gay guys (the 3 of us trained together 15 years ago) I must say I've heard quite a few stories about gay crew being upset for the way they were treated by other colleagues...
I have on some occasions heard jokes being made about gay people by straight guys - some may say it's banter but forget that those at the receiving end may not find it amusing though.
12th Jun 2012, 22:33
EZYA319 I get your point about LPL and European bases but even with a 50/50 split you can easily argue that the stereotype is still in fact true.
13th Jun 2012, 00:48
In any professional setting, the orientation of said professional should be difficult if not impossible to determine. I'm not here for a cabaret show, so I really don't need to know one way or the other.
Out in public, I'm straight, but I'm very supportive of the rights of gay men. The more of them there are, the more women there will be left for me.:ok:
Maybe you should take a peek at this LGBT rights by country or territory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory)
I'm curious what would happen if for example a UK airline refused to employ a male cabin crew member, who was gay.
If they stated the reason for the non employment was the fact he was unable to be scheduled across their entire route network. The airline has a duty of care to it's employees and they cannot absolve a crew member from complying with the laws of another country.
Much the same as a crew member who has a criminal conviction that is "spent" under the rehabilitation of offenders act in the UK, but another country does not have to recognize the UK legislation considering it "spent" and can refuse entry. (Canada for example)
As such, the airline would be within it's rights to deny employment based on the standard clause "Must be able to travel unrestricted across the network" or various words to that effect......
I could see how this could be argued in a variety of ways... I wonder if any airline has thought about the issue? Or been to afraid of the PC BS to ever address it.
Map below showing parts of the world where homosexuality (mainly between men) is still illegal, and in some cases punishable by death.
Ps. I could not give two hoots as to someones sexual orientation, I'm just curious is the possible ramifications of sending an "overtly" gay crew member to some of these countries has been considered.
13th Jun 2012, 02:55
I remember once being told by an instructor during Cabin Safety lectures for Tech Crew members, when he was asked if it was true that a large proportion of male CC in the company were homosexual, that "Yes, probably 70 to 80%, but don't worry about it too much because about the same percentage of the girls are too". It is nothing new.
13th Jun 2012, 03:02
Truth is most Male CC are gay.
like American Politicians the ones that complain about them most are gay too.
Lee Baker Street
13th Jun 2012, 07:35
Well said Stilton,
I was a manager of a well known building at a local airport. Of 16 staff, 4 of us were openly gay (but did not flaunt it and we were each straight acting/looking-so to speak)
I was invited for a drink one night by a a/c loader who turned out to be bi.
One of my staff ended up 'pleasing' not one but two of the straight staff!
No one would believe me, that from ATC to based taxi personel to loaders irrelevent of the fact they are married, they are all at it! Trust me I know...
EZYA319, you are asking for thoughts.
I remember one captain we had who didnīt want male FAs on the upperdeck because he didnīt want to be served by 'flaming poofters'. The guy was a bullying idiot in many other ways too, and in those days, people got away with that kind of discriminatory cr@<hidden> But weīre talking 1983.
Over the past 20 years of flying, I have never heard any of our gay CC complain about homophobia @<hidden> work. Have heard the very occasional homophobic remark, but that was at least 20 years back. Have also seen straight pilots kiss all the female and gay male CC goodbye, while giving their straight colleagues, pilots and CC, a manly handshake. ;)
Off the top of my head, I also know about a fair few pilots who are openly, non-issue, gay. We also had, now retired, a transsexual captain who flew as a bloke and lived as a woman down route.
These days, sexual orientation isnīt an issue among our crews.
I have had occasion to pull up both gay and straight colleagues on overly sexualised and therefore bothersome behaviour. But thatīs a whole different kettle of fish.
Sadly, I also have been on the receiving end of the Gay Mafia in action, not on board but in the office. I donīt care it itīs gays or straits; treating others with disdain because of their sexual orientation is just plain wrong.
But where it is acceptable to state your objection to homophobia, objecting to gay mafia behaviour is fraught with pitfalls.
Canīt speak for other airlines, but in mine, itīs not homophobia that is the thorny issue.
13th Jun 2012, 17:07
Whilst engaged in your work duties, your sexual orientation should be invisible and irrelevant, if you make it overt, its you that is creating the problem, not the people reacting to your display.
I simply dont get the tendancy for many homosexuals to somehow feel the need to make their sexual orientation an issue for discussion, then complain about anyone making it known they actually arent in agreement with the enforced by regulation acceptance of homosexual behaviour.
In other words, if you just shut up and do your job, you may find nobody cares to actually know your sexual preferances
Lone, I don't know where you work, and maybe it applies there. But where I work, I can not remember a gay person ever making their orientation a subject of discussion. As said, itīs a non-issue among crew members.
Straight male pilots/FAs endlessly badgering female colleagues with tiresome sexual innuendo are more of an 'overt' PIA than our gay colleagues in fact.
13th Jun 2012, 19:04
"I simply dont get the tendancy for many homosexuals to somehow feel the need to make their sexual orientation an issue for discussion, then complain about anyone making it known they actually arent in agreement with the enforced by regulation acceptance of homosexual behaviour."
Lone_ranger, may I just ask you how about the various times we hear the straight guys in the galley chatting about the breasts of that fit girl in 12A ? If you lads can chat and make jokes about sexual issues in front of us straight women, why cant the gay boys be open about their sexual orientation?:confused:
"Straight male pilots/FAs endlessly badgering female colleagues with tiresome sexual innuendo are more of an 'overt' PIA than our gay colleagues in fact."
Juud, this is so true...I entirely agree with you, here!
13th Jun 2012, 20:05
As a vacation, long haul pax with BA I don't give a damn. Whether my smiley welcome & glass of champagne is served by a female straight CC member or a male gay CC member makes no difference whatsoever. Equally, when I've flown with obviously mixed crew they have always seemed to me to be working well togther as a team, the sort of behaviour I've come to expect from excellent BA crew.:ok:
13th Jun 2012, 20:29
.....and why is it called homophobia?, the politicaly correct idiots even manage to twist it so people who disagree with them are labeled as sufferers of an illness...pathetic....
P.S juud, you may not see it being made an issue at your place of work but obviously it happens, the starting of this very thread for instance
13th Jun 2012, 20:47
attended a presentation about the job of cabin crew some months ago which was done by a seasoned male CC who was obviously gay, or at least he very convincingly (and seemingly intentionally) gave that impression. Mixed with his obvious experience and professionalism, the performance he gave there was humorous and likeable beyond belief, and the audience were hooked. IMHO in order to object in any way to that guy one would really have to be a miserable sod.
13th Jun 2012, 22:11
Unfortunately Lone_Ranger it isn't as simple as you suggest.
My experience of any crew working together and this is the same surely for any unit of staff who work in a 'team' environment, generally chat with each other to bond. This actually dare I suggest is everyday CRM at play.
So when you, as I am sure you must have, asked a colleague whether they have a partner, or anything to do with potentially personal life interests - it can sometimes put that person on the spot. Without the questioner realising it. Even down to the questioner refering to 'she' about a partner they assume the other person has. Yes we all try to tow the politically correct line of never labelling someone as a he or she but we all make mistakes. I have.
So without realising it we all can cause some of our gay colleagues awkward moments. So you may find that these colleagues that make their orientation overt is simply them firstly trying to be honest with you and anyone they work with and secondly to avoid both parties ending up in a awkward moment when one party realises what they may or may perceive to have said, that may have caused offence or a perceived offence.
Some like to bottle it up and continue to lie to your face to avoid embarassment, others will be honest with you. This I feel should be embraced and respected if that is how they deal with it. We are all different.
I agree we do not need to know what goes on behind closed doors - unless you ask, but frankly to me everyday conversation lend themselves to subconciously probing into the other persons personal life.
14th Jun 2012, 09:48
Those who comment on 'overt' crew members are dare i say it, commenting on Campness and flamboyancy. Whilst some 'gays' can lay it on thick, for many they are just naturally camp and for others it is just their personality. To say they are unprofessional is border line homophobic.
Making sexual suggestions is bang out of order but lets face it they are the minority and heterosexuals are just as bad!
14th Jun 2012, 10:16
As a gay guy who spends too much of his 'work' time in the back of aircraft, gay CC are just what I need to brighten my day. A cheeky, harmless flirt goes a long way to ease the pain of long journeys.
Thanks guys ;)
CaptAirProx, what an excellent post. :ok:
The beauty of pprune; making you look at things in a way you had not done previously.
Mild flirtation between people is part of the human make-up. Much enjoyed by many, and unlikely to give offense, as per create_it83īs post.
However, to my mind, campness and flamboyancy do not belong in the workplace. Neither does a continuous stream of hetero sexualised jokes.
Both behaviors, however natural they may come to a person, are outside the professional context of what we are on board for.
As CC we are there to ensure cabin safety and to serve our multi cultural pax in a pleasant and unobtrusive manner.
In-your-face sexuality does not fit within that remit, not for heteros and not for homos. Pointing that out to both straight and gay colleagues on a rare occasion does not make me borderline homophobic easyflyer83.
It rather makes me a person who believes that part of my professional responsibility lies in correcting unsuitable behaviour in the work place. However uncomfortable that may be for me as a person.
14th Jun 2012, 11:29
Juud, I totally agree. Professional aviation requires an unusual amount of co-operation, by all concerned, for safety reasons, let alone for the customer service aspects of the job.
We all need to be at our best to keep it so. Personal issues of any sort need to be put aside because they can be easily and intensely counter-productive. A happy aircraft is a safe and efficient aircraft.
14th Jun 2012, 11:41
Many crew members I fly with are naturally camp. They cannot do anything about it. They are effeminate. Do we really believe that that is in your face sexuality? Indeed who is actually making the link between Campness and sexuality? It's not the crew member is it?
I have recently flown with a very effeminate crew member for 3 return trips to the med over as many days. Not once has he made a dirty joke, he's not even flirted or mentioned anything sexual. Yet he's camp as a row of tents. He's polite, good at his job and pax seem to take to him really well. Is he shoving his sexuality in my face? What do you think?
I would argue strongly that it is his personality, not sexuality, they is being displayed. Crew are often selected, in part, for their personality. It might not be to everyone's taste but that is no different to real life. But he does his job well.
14th Jun 2012, 14:55
.....and why is it called homophobia?, the politicaly correct idiots even manage to twist it so people who disagree with them are labeled as sufferers of an illness...pathetic.... Get over it, a name that ends in -phobia does not necessarily imply that it's an illness. Or is xenophobia now considered an illness instead of an overt expression of cultural small-mindedness?
Incidentally, I don't like the label homophobia either as it's too PC for me. I think we should just call it by its real name, bigotry.
14th Jun 2012, 18:16
Well said, I am indeed a bigot
14th Jun 2012, 21:19
Well that makes two of us LR.
Homosexuals - paedophiles - those who practice bestiality -
are all in the same category to me. Since the last 40 years of
Fabian social engineering has shaped homosexuality as being
a "normal lifestyle" you can bet, and it won't surprise me in
the least, that the latter two will gain equal public "normalcy"
in Western thinking within the next 40. At that point it does
not mean one has to accept whatever the PC fluffist brigades
decide as what's "normal" and what isn't, just as some of us
have continued to ignore them during the last few decades.
15th Jun 2012, 07:26
I think Lone Ranger has it right.
I could not agree more.
15th Jun 2012, 08:15
I'm curious what would happen if for example a UK airline refused to employ a male cabin crew member, who was gay.
If they stated the reason for the non employment was the fact he was unable to be scheduled across their entire route network. The airline has a duty of care to it's employees and they cannot absolve a crew member from complying with the laws of another country.IMHO that's a moot point. For starters, AFAIK those countries consider actively engaging in homosexual conduct illegal and punishable by law. Sexual orientation per se is not punishable as, without explicit actions, it definitely cannot be proven. Company personnel will just have to refrain, during stopovers, from engaging in any conduct that is considered illegal by local laws, just like everybody else has to fully abide by local laws while traveling to a foreign country.
Incidentally, several of those countries consider any form of extra-marital sex illegal and severely punishable as well. Should people who are (hetero)sexually active and who do not consider extra-marital sex immoral and are therefore known to engage in extra-marital affairs or perhaps even *gasp* adultery be refused employment too on the same grounds? Even if adultery in the UK is not a criminal but at most a civil litigation matter? If that were the case airlines would probably find themselves unable to employ anyone, unless they only fly domestic. :E
15th Jun 2012, 10:53
easyflyer I could not agree more with you!
Equally someone mentioned personal life should not come into the workplace. I could not disagree more. Taking flightdeck for example, two crew sat doing very little but monitoring during the cruise, yikes it would be a very dull atmosphere if all we could discuss was work related topics. No wonder us pilots get tarnished as being utterly boring socialisers!!
Even colleagues whom I have no real time for I would still make effort to discuss something beyond work to find a common ground and at least try and build a good working relationship to ensure the job gets done safely with a friendly open atmosphere.
So no, for me doesn't matter who you are, what you are, how you are - be yourself and be proud and let people admire you or hate you for who you are. If they are not professional enough to 'work around that' how would they expect to be 'worked around' themselves. Nobody is perfect and not everyone is the others cup of tea.
15th Jun 2012, 12:29
I've worked for one of Europe's oldest and established airlines for well over a decade.
When I started in the mid-nineties as cabin crew (one out of approx 8.000 cc) I was one of the few straight male flight attendants.
Over the years it shifted and more and more straight guys joined the airline because it was a well paid, fun way of seeing the world.
We also employed gay captains, co-pilots, flight engineers etc, no big deal.
Later on I moved to private/corporate ops as freelance cc.
Albeit also somewhat of a macho culture, trust me, there are numerous gay people driving Challengers, Globals and Falcons.
To me the gay thing doesn't change anything, it is just more commonly found in specific lines of work.
As long as you do well what you are paid for and respect your collegues I don't give a f*ck about your sexual preferences....
Lee Baker Street
15th Jun 2012, 15:30
On your on-line profile you quote that you are a 'pervert'. In adittion you quote 'poofters' and here you are in a room for adults trying to have an adult discussion.
Fortunately, homophobia is now reduced to a trickle and only the remaining 'insecure beings' exist. I say 'beings', because real men have no interest in the actions or manerisms of another man!
15th Jun 2012, 17:54
LBS Writes..... "because real men have no interest in the actions or manerisms of another man!"
Of course homosexuals being very much interested in such things, must be classed as non real men by your own definition, I think you need to consider just what point it is you are trying to make Mr Baker Street
16th Jun 2012, 16:00
Slasher has now left this thread
17th Jun 2012, 11:30
First up, I think one should treat every individual on their own merits and not as part of a collective. One can only do that, however, on a personal, one to one basis and obviously not in an emotion free environment like an internet forum.
Second, camp behaviour has been described here as affeminate, which is strange because one simply doesn't see women acting like a camp male. The camp behaviour is exactly that, behaviour. In other words it is a CHOSEN method of acting, there is a choice...just as we all have choices, behaviour is a choice. I have no issue with camp behaviour per say but it can be perceived as negative. I have seen two camp stewards trying desperately to "outcamp" each other on a flight and it was cringeingly embarassing, not funny and made large numbers of passengers visibly uncomfortable.
Next, the gay mafia. There is no doubt that cabin crew is seen as something of a sinecure for gay males, but is this because, for some scientifically unproven reason, gays are particularly good at it? Or can it be that a gay element in a recruitment system tends to lead to a preponderance of like minded recruits? This is quite normal, if I ran cabin crew recruitment there would be a preponderance of gorgeous, bright, funny, tall ladies...it's human nature!
My final ramble is to question whether or not it is simply fashionable, at the moment, to be falling all over ourselves to ensure that every portion of society, whatever their needs and desires, has their full entitlement of human rights? Should felons vote? Should paedophiles be castrated? It appears to depend on what is "trendy" at the time. At one time being gay was perfectly acceptable, at another it is a crime punishable by imprisonment or worse....we seem to be in the former part of thet cycle, but will we stay there?
18th Jun 2012, 05:15
Old fellaI don't think they are "real men" either.
What do you mean by a real man? There are many gay people who fight for their country who I consider real men. There are many gay people who run industries across the globe who show guts and determination, who I consider real men. There are many gay people who are fathers, who are also real men. The list goes on.I wonder if you fit into any of these categories.
Fortunately, homophobia is now reduced to a trickle and only the remaining 'insecure beings' exist.
Never a truer word spoken!
23rd Jun 2012, 10:28
crew meal. The beauty of living in a democratic society once was that we were all entitled to an opinion. Being a red blooded male whom was a member of the military for over twenty years, and a father of two wonderful children, I may not have run an international industry but I am still what I believe to be a real man. If my opinion offends you that is your problem, not mine. The fact is that I am not allowed to openly say what I think of homosexuals and their lifestyle because I would be open to prosecution, unlike the "gay" and lesbian fraternity whom can say what they like about hetrosexual people with apparent impunity. Because I cannot understand why any man would want to make a partner of another man I am accused of being homophobic. Well, I guess I will just have to wear that mantle. I can assure you there is nothing insecure about me.
23rd Jun 2012, 12:29
Please spare us all the injured martyr stuff: It is tiresome.
Although the right to free speech is arguably being diminished (almost daily it sometimes seems) , it still exists. However, that does not give everybody the right to say anything about anybody - it never has. There are clear, and legal restrictions on free speech that bind us all. Just as straight people do not necessarily have the right to disparage or abuse gay people, or anybody else, gay people are bound by the same restrictions. It may suit your particular position to believe otherwise, or to believe that a balance has not been achieved, but that remains a matter of fine-tuning the legislation, rather than deleting it.
You may or may not understand what makes somebody attractive to somebody else - That part of the process is irrelevant. You're not required to understand, or even agree - You're simply required to treat your fellow human beings with the respect that they are entitled to (and both morally and legally, they are entitled to it).
It seems to me that we have a problem with terminology in this thread, and the two salient examples are not helping. Firstly, I wish that the word "Homophobia" had never been used. It is highly emotive label and is often used as shorthand for an entire range of experiences and attitudes: As so often, it involves a laziness of thought and expression and a failure to use language with precision. The use of the word guarantees an eventual descent into inflammatory and emotional discussion.
The second example would be the use of the phrase "Real Man": There is of course, no such thing, it is a subjective and meaningless phrase that carries the implication that those who do not fall into that category are in some way diminished i.e. Lesser or False Men. Once again, the lazy use of language in the discussion of an emotive subject leads us inexorably downwards.
For the record, here's where I stand...
I'm straight, but I find the company of excessively camp gay men occasionally tedious, just as I do the company of excessively butch gay women. I also find tedious the company of excessively straight men and women. In short, the people that I like the best are those who allow me to establish a normal social or work relationship with them such that their (and my) sexuality is irrelevant. I don't really refer to my sexual activities or preferences with anybody else, and rather expect that they do the same. Who we choose to fall in love with, or have sex with is not a "lifestyle" choice, it's a "shagging" choice - End of.
23rd Jun 2012, 21:17
Moderator says..." You're simply required to treat your fellow human beings with the respect that they are entitled to (and both morally and legally, they are entitled to it)."
Rubbish, am I required to respect a thief?, a murderer?, or someone I think are themselves morally bereft?
I assure you they aint "entitled in my eyes.
There maybe legislation saying just that, but i damn well aint morally required to respect anybody who hasnt met my personal criteria to earn it
edited to correct formatting
A and C
24th Jun 2012, 10:10
Quite frankly I am astounded that in the modern airline industry a persons sexuality is an issue, it was not an issue in the last three airlines I have worked for and I doubt it will be with my latest employer.
As a captain I am only interested in how a person performs their professional role, who they sleep with is their own business.
How in this day and age this thread has run to three pages & fifty something posts is quite beyond my comprehension.
24th Jun 2012, 12:35
Quite frankly I am astounded that in the modern airline industry a persons sexuality is an issue
It actually isn't an issue in the modern airline industry. There are 3 contributors to this thread for whom it is an issue and non of them are Flight Attendants and at least two have not worked with Flight Attendants as part of a crew.
25th Jun 2012, 12:57
TightSlot. It is not an issue to me, I simply do not understand it. That may be irrelevant to you Sir, but not to me. I am not an injured martyr either, however I can assure you that if a "straight" person were to portray a homosexual man or woman in the same way members of the homosexual fraternity portray "straight" people in Sydney's Gay Mardi Gras they would likely be charged with vilification. It is not a level playing field in Australia. There are "gay & lesbian" watering holes in Sydney where non-homosexuals are not admitted. That situation in reverse would not be tolerated.
25th Jun 2012, 13:33
Gutted that they wouldn't let you in Old Fella?
PS I don't see what being in the military has to do with anything - please don't associate your un-officer like views with the rest of us.
25th Jun 2012, 13:54
That situation in reverse would not be tolerated.
Are you kidding? Ever been to Wyoming? :E