Well its back again. So what are they going to do with this, pay us back if we take it, or not?? Personally, I don't think so.

Why not get innovative and just ask for Work without pay?

This is ULV not SLS, no repayment, promised, implied or should be anticipated ;)

I have no problem with unpaid leave, it may be perfect for some people and if it works for them great!
However what I find strange is that if you go for more than 90 days you loose all your entitlements .
Surely if they are looking for volunteers and someone wants 6 months off, why penalize them for helping out ?
Again it's all very one sided, I don't see a large uptake of the offer anytime soon Especially when some people cannot get the paid leave they want

I am going to go with the pay without work option.

Thats what my financial advisor recommends.
She wants another house.

Out of principle I don't agree to something with that much fine print. Shove it Herbie.

I'll consider it if I can get my owed annual leave when I bid for it. All together. Which won't happen. So gfys Hebert.

If people would take 2 seconds to think about it, and nobody took them up on this awesome "offer" then everyone would work less for the same pay. For the weak thinkers, that means everyone will get a higher pay rate, as they get the same pay for less work. That means everyone, including you. If people stick together (:ugh:) and do not fall for yet another scam, everyone will get more time off while making the same money.

That's 3 times: Nobody take ULV and you get more days off and still make the same money. That means more money and less work. See? Do you get it?

Why oh why would anyone fall for this trick?

I was talking about taking 3 months unpaid leave but I have now been committed to an asylum and will therefore now be off sick for 3 months!

See you soon I hope.

I work at the asylum
And get locked in an aluminium room frequently

A highly profitable airline that has made only a few small losses in it's history, has some shitty fuel hedging and expects the crews to take it in the ass because of their incompetence.

$%*&#$%&* :mad: Dreaming!

The profit share formula has been re jigged so that the employees get bugger all these days. My suggestion is the work formula should be re jigged so that none of the pilots take leave and you pricks can suck it up for once!

Thanks Richard! :ok:

You don't have to take it if it doesn't suit you.
If it works for you and you want the time off to do other "things" then do it. If you can't afford it then don't do it. Why do you wankers make it sound so difficult? Don't answer that as WE already know!!!!!!
Cheers ladies.

totally agree route tuner...this forum is too full of pseudo intellects trying to tell others how to run their lives

That's because the way in which other pseudo-intellects run their lives significantly affects my life...

If nobody takes ULV, everyone will get many more paid days off, so this pseudo-intellect thinks getting effectively more pay for less work is much better than getting no pay for no work - and I can save my "leave" plans for when I have paid leave. The fact that contractually-required paid leave has not been awarded is another issue worthy of contract compliance....but what do I know, I'm just a pseudo-intellect.

Also, this "we would all get more days off" plan only works if they can't suck enough bored old guys or easily-fooled young guys into ULV, leading up to the next unnecessary SLS, which won't happen or be taken up until the conditions set during the last SLS are satisfied (25-yr housing, primarily). But again, what do I know?

I don't think a single Captain will consider SLS until we have all received back the gratuitous theft of our 10% from the last SLS. This company really knows how to motivate people. not. :ugh:

Agreed Tornado. That move has left a (still) very bitter taste in the mouths of many skippers. Well done oh boss of IATA.

b.

Except, you know it was not a theft: Pay was voluntarily given away in exchange for unpaid leave. The company awarded the unpaid leave as promised. The fact that they paid back 90% of the pay that was forfeited, without asking for the leave back, will never be seen as a theft by anyone. The money returned to employees, whatever the amount or percentage, was a bonus, whether you like it or not. In fact, captains ended up with more extra paid leave than anyone else, as much as 90% of 4 times more than most.

I.S

I'll make certain then that I'll run it by you first before I decide to take my family on holiday at a time that suits me with the extra leave that I have chosen to take AT MY OWN EXPENSE....if by foregoing my family holiday I can ensure that YOU get more paid days off at my expense...well lets see now...I'll be sure to give that option the consideration it deserves

Maybe but I don't recall it being "voluntary" unless you ignored the gun at your head!!

sorvad, it is not just at your expense, it is at my expense too. When flying is unusually busy, we get paid to work more. When flying is unusually light, we get more time off - unless guys like you fall for the scam, again.

Your CoS gives you 6 weeks leave for your family vacations, right? Mine too. Playing into the hands of the company when they don't want to stick to the CoS (ULV, freighter PX consent, continuing FACA pay/rules when FACA doesn't exist, etc.) cuts both ways when pilots don't stick to it either.

Personally. I was very happy with an extra 4 weeks off at 90% pay. If they want to do that again, I'm in!

Give me my regular leave first, then I might consider.

And I do mean mean "might!"

Personally. I was very happy with an extra 4 weeks off at 90% pay. If they want to do that again, I'm in!

I think the point is everyone else got 4 weeks off for 100%

Dan,

Not true. They got 3,2, or 1 week off and 100% back.

i stand correcected. But again, the point being the 100%. Talk about alienating your senior flightcrew.

Agreed. It does seem arbitrary to have withheld 10% from captains and nothing from the other groups. Either pro-rate the refund 90, 92.5, 95, 97.5 or give it all back to everyone.

It wasn't that arbitrary: Those who earned (plus or minus) 20 times the salary of the 90% who got 1 week off ended up with 3.6 (90% x 4) weeks of extra paid leave, while the 90% got 1 week of extra paid leave from this scheme in which nobody was entitled to any extra paid leave. Come on, let it go. Many of these same capts are lining up for unpaid leave again. Just as with SLS, ULV is expected and announced to be just that: Unpaid leave. Let it go.

Funny that people like Dan thought everyone else got an extra paid month off too. No wonder they think they got shafted vs. realizing they got 3.6 times MORE of something valuable than 90% of employees.

A far better way to have some extra time off without falling for this Unpaid Leave scheme whereby if you take 2 months Unpaid you lose another 1 weeks paid leave for your participation, is to utilize the PROFFERING system in your Rostering practices agreement, and the interface is already on crew direct.

A typical roster would be 80-84 hours on average therefore in theory a Captain can proffer all of his flying at a cost of $80-84K. An F/O could proffer all his roster at a cost of $40-44 k and an S/O for a cost of $24-25,200. All ranks would have a fair amount of salary still remaining (zero salary with unpaid leave!) with no pro rata costs in the company favour and full entitlements intact.

Proffering trips before and after leave and days off can generate very acceptable amounts of days off at reasonable cost. The system needs to have givers and takers to work and if we all took unpaid leave obviously we would shoot ourselves in the foot because we would all be on minimum G days and proffers would not be awarded.

Yes, Cirilgroove, thanks. As it is, with nobody disappearing on ULV, I've only managed to successfully proffer 1 trip, after many attempts, due to the lack of available participants.

Have any of you thought that by taking unpaid leave any arguement for a pay increase is seriously weakened?

I'm sure we all would love another pay rise, but in the current climate I think that's wishful thinking. It's hard enough to ask for a rise during good times, good luck trying to do it now

F1,

It seems as though the company's PR machine is working its magic on you. I am expecting the AOA to be going back to the table as soon as the current agreement expires. Inflation continues to erode our wages, and with what appears to be more central bank easing going forward I would not expect that to change anytime soon. Fox 2!

I am more than willing to help in bad times IF in good times the favour is repaid. There have been 2 bad times at CX in my career here and I have helped both times but only seen one half decent payrise. The way I see it, they still owe me one and I will not be doing any more favours until we are even. Besides, I don't believe this is a bad time despite the bleating. When we see financial figures to rival the American carriers, come and see me.

Just say NO. Why have time off with no pay when you can have an easy roster on full pay?

Because I want to, it's my choice and it's got absolutely co€k all to do with you

Again: It does have a lot to do with the rest of us.

Don't ask us to care or take action when you have an issue, Mr. Me, Myself and I

sorvad, it has a lot to do with everyone else.

If you take unpaid leave the remainder pick up the trips you would have otherwise done. So, those at work will be working harder for their money.

If no one takes unpaid leave then everyone works less for their money.

If this is the case and there is a hiring freeze on ground staff and cabin crew are being asked to take leave, has the company suspended new flight crew recruitment?

How F'ing dare you berate me for making the choice to take some time off for less money just so you can work less for the same money.... This whole bloody forum stinks.... From schadenfreude of the worst kind on the "Paris base closes" thread, to you to$$€rs on this thread begrudging families or individuals wanting to make the most of a lull in business and take some quality time off (and no not just a few extra days on the roster) to do what they want to do just so you can have an easier life without taking a hit

How bloody dare you

Sorvad. you should rename yourself 'sosad'. Really buddy, by taking the UPL you are playing into the cynical hands of management. Do it if you want, just don't complain later when the next brick is removed.... No wonder this career has been hollowed out beyond all recognition.

Tornado, maybe you should change your name to patronising tw@<hidden> I'm not playing into the hands of anyone... I'm taking advantage of a chance to take more time off to be with my family at a time that suits me....meanwhile you can carry on working your normal roster if you want because that suits you... You're not working any harder because of me... You're just not working less ... So what's your F'ing problem.... If you were at BA or easyjet would you begrudge guys who choose to go on a part time roster for part pay?.... It's options like that that allow their crew to do other stuff as they please outside of work... Not everyone wants to, but some do... It's called flexibility... Its very poular and it suits the company and the employee....God forbid Cathay should ever offer part time .... that might suit so many crew that you might have to work your normal roster indefinitely.

Sorvad,

You seem a bit stressed out, why don't you knock off a few months on sick leave instead? I'm not sure you are aware but you actually get paid while you are on sick leave.

I realize you are trying to help out, and save CX some money so maybe the sick leave option is not right for you (even if you are too stressed out to fly)...

Your name and previous posts just about sum you up... Idiot

Sorvad, Quote:- "I'm taking advantage of a chance to take more time off to be with my family at a time that suits me.."

I think that you might be taking the time off at a time that suits the Company.

You do seem to be a real team player though - in a team of one!

Having spent 20 years at CX, I had a very good family life - two months leave per year, later reduced to six weeks and a family that lived where I was based. Perhaps your circumstances are different, but then that is up to you.

How F'ing dare you berate me for making the choice to take some time off for less money just so you can work less for the same money.... This whole bloody forum stinks.... From schadenfreude of the worst kind on the "Paris base closes" thread, to you to$$€rs on this thread begrudging families or individuals wanting to make the most of a lull in business and take some quality time off (and no not just a few extra days on the roster) to do what they want to do just so you can have an easier life without taking a hit

Mate, get real. you and those like u are the very reason our T &C have been significantly reduced. Thanks.

What absolute rubbish.

Been on overtime since last November. Now 898 hours. Works well as 2 weeks off per month.. Rostering being sensible for a change and not putting stupid spoiler events in the middle.. Thanks CX but more and more like me and surely getting exponential as the load falls on the rest.. In theory this will go on until same time next year when the annual hours start to drop..

How soon will they run out of pilots? This is one rule even CX management can't get around..I guess shutting down -400 routes will be the only sensible option.. 98% load factor to break even due to the bonus earning highly paid help upstairs and their stupid hedging.. Maybe do a seminar at Ryanair guys to learn how to do it?

I bet RH is praying for some Greek contagion to get him off the hook..
Ad how many shafted bassees will stick up a finger? Cme to HK and find a flat for 24k? Not...