embarrassing jubilee flypast

[Hireandhire]

I am as patriotic as the nex tBrit, but am I alone in finding the jubilee flypast this afternoon a bit useless?
one DC3, a couple of Kingairs, the BoBMF and the red arrows! a bit sad andNot very impressive at all.
We could do much better next time with 100 LAA aircraft and the Vulcan!
I'll even organise it for them if the LAA get a move on!I guess some "overflight" rules can be waived forsuch an occasion.
whilst I am on the subject, there must have been FLEET Air ARM PILOTS SPINNING IN THER GRAVES over the decision to abort the Swordfish flypast on Sunday due to a bit of low cloud and light mist. Nothing compared to the heroics of "flying off "round the clock in the North Atlantic, i'm sure - where's their bottle gone? I was itching for the swordfish to put in a late appearance hurdling Buck House during the concert later, when it had all gone nice towards sunset
sorry for the rant.
hnH

[cats_five]

There's a very good reason the Vulcan could not be there, if it was scheduled to be... I believe the big fly-past was a week or two back at Windsor.

[Tableview]

Isn't the Vulcan (XH 558 as far as I know being the only airworthy one) currently o/s after an engine problem a couple of weeks ago?

[Torque Tonight]

I think everyone would have been very pleased to see the Red Arrows and the BBMF in conditions that that could have scrubbed any flypast. HM certainly seemed pleased. Regarding the Swordfish, a ceremonial flypast should not require heroics and bottle. If they chose to cancel due to weather then so be it.

100 LAA aircraft flypast? I think most of the crowds would have fallen asleep before half the aircraft passed, and that's coming from an LAA aircraft owner. Would they not be even more vulnerable to duff weather than the RAF.

I think yours is a pretty mean-spirited rant and I know that if every available military aircraft was flown down the Mall there would be far greater complaints of extravagence and misuse of resources.:ugh:

[G-ARZG]

Well said, TT.
HM saw plenty of airframes over Windsor a few weeks ago.
Some would argue tautology if repeated today also...

'ZG

[PompeyPaul]

I'll gladly fly a PA28 over Buck house as part of a fly past. I'll even give the Queen, or preferably Kate Middleton, a ride in it if she pleases.

[G-ARZG]

Give that a Buck House flyby a go in a month or so :)

PA28 + Apache AH1 + Typhoon formation, can't wait !

[effortless]

Give that a Buck House flyby a go in a month or so

PA28 + Apache AH1 + Typhoon formation, can't wait !

Can I film it please? Reckon it'll make a couple of bob on you've been framed.:}

[Hireandhire]

TT-I'll apologise now for any appearance of "mean-spiritness"
I'd just like UK to have done better, especially after all the little boats came up trumps.

[blueandwhite]

100 LAA aircraft in formation :eek:

TT gave my opinion on the rest of the post quite well.

[gooneydog]

They should have redied a Concorde on the QT and surprised everyone.

[3 Point]

Torque Tonight,

Well said! I've been in too many ceremonial flypast which did require heroics and bottle (including in the Swordfish) and the guys on Sunday made exactly the right decision not to push it. This way they will be there for years to come.

H&H; mean sprited seems to me to sum up your comments pretty well! Are you appropriately qualified and experienced to voice an opinion on the subject?

Don't be sorry for ranting - just don't rant!

Well done to all aviators for a safe and professional weekend's flying activities!:D:D:D

[stickandrudderman]

I think the aircraft should have been armed with MST missiles myself!




Mean Spirited Tosser

[david viewing]

Seen elsewhere on Sunday

Gillespie ?

[fwjc]

Do you really think that there are 100 LAA pilots who are competent and safe to fly close formation in non-matched types at low level? Get real.

[Pace]

I have to agree with the poster!! But from a different angle! I see this as a reflection of how our Air force has been decimated to almost non existence from what Her Majesty the Queen must have known years ago.
A Dads army of Air power and creative brilliance in aviation long lost?
Surprised they did not chuck in a few hang gliders to make up the numbers???

Pace

[Katamarino]

I must admit to being a little disappointed in what was fielded (not in the execution, though) as well. Why exactly did they tack on a couple of random King Airs? It would have been nice to see some Hercs or fast jets.

[italianjon]

10 years ago for the 50th, it was this.

http://www.bluesquareit.com/jmabro/jubilee/FlypastConcorde1Big.jpg

Does it feel like Britain has regressed in the last 10 years in the field of aviation????

(P.S. Anti-Flame - despite my name on here I am actually British - Long story on that one)

[Pace]

It would have been nice to see some Hercs or fast jets

Do we still have any???;)

I must admit I did not see the flypast as I was with a private jet in the south of france!
I have friends some who are not Aviation background who made comments.
We have decimated our Air Force and I am sure the Queen is aware of the sort of flypast she would have experienced 20 years ago.
Tacking on a couple of Kingairs? Had I timed it right my Citation could have joined in too :E

Pace

[JW411]

my Citation:

Purely as a matter of interest, do you actually own it?

[shortstripper]

What annoyed me was the way BBC radio (I didn't see much telly as I was working) kept referring to the flypast as the Red Arrows and WW2 planes?

Is it thought that calling them the BoB memorial flight wouldn't be understood by the vast majority of the public?

[Pace]

JW411

No I do not own it! But it is still my baby! I understand its every tick and grumble and burp far more than the owner :E
So its his Aircraft my Baby!

Pace

[JW411]

I just wondered.

[Legalapproach]

BBC News - Pilot's view during Jubilee flypast of Buckingham Palace (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18334001)

[mary meagher]

I must admit I was puzzled by the Kingairs....anybody have the faintest idea why they were in that display?

But remember the significance that the Memorial Flight must hold for HM.

She was there when those aircraft were all that kept Hitler from sending over his boats and making Britain into another victim of blitzkrieg.
She was there when Buckhouse was a prime target.

It was her party after all.

I am very happy that they flew at all in those marginal conditions.

The Red Arrows were the final flourish, as the crowd has come to expect.

[ExRAFRadar]

Used for training

RAF - King Air (http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/kingair.cfm)

[foxmoth]

whilst I am on the subject, there must have been FLEET Air ARM PILOTS SPINNING IN THER GRAVES over the decision to abort the Swordfish flypast on Sunday due to a bit of low cloud and light mist.

Not sure where you were during the Sunday proceedings, I was driving round the M25 and even had the fly past happened I do not think they would have been seen in the rain I drove through, I also recall comments about the "shard" not being visible, and the tv showed the top of it WELL into the cloud, so cloubase certainly under 1000', not sure I would want to be flying over central London at that height even single ship, never mind in formation!

[Grob Queen]

I must admit I was puzzled by the Kingairs....anybody have the faintest idea why they were in that display?

Doubtless to prove that we do still train pilots at Cranwell Mary ;)

Agreed, the old KingAir is common place but (although on this I did not see the Jubillee Flypast and have not spoken to any of my friends on 45 about it) actually a four ship low formation of KingAirs is actually quite impressive :p

[foxmoth]

a four ship low formation of KingAirs is actually quite impressive

Yes, but two lead by a DC3 not quite so!

[Talkdownman]

I am very happy that they flew at all in those marginal conditions
EGLL 051350Z 17012KT 150V210 9999 -RA SCT028 SCT035 13/09 Q1013 NOSIG

err...hardly marginal conditions... :ok:

[maxred]

The clip posted by legal approach, view from Lancaster, shows a good 10k under the crud" they would be VFR, perfectly doable.

[Bill Macgillivray]

:ok: Let us see what Saturday brings. Like many, I can remember (and have taken part in) Her Majesty's Birthday flypasts. I hope it will be an improvement in numbers. The guys and guyesses on the Jubilee were great, as always. Just thought there could have been more, even though we are cutting back!!:sad:

[mary meagher]

Thank you,ExRAFradar and Grob Queen; it now makes perfect sense.

The King Air is used to train the new generation of RAF pilots. So the modest display that caused criticism was hugely symbolic for those who could understand the message.

Talkdownman, your official weather summary only emphasizes how much caution must be used in trusting official met. The actual report by Foxmoth is interesting; heavy rain, and the London Shard disappearing into the murk.
I was only watching on the gogglebox, but the formations certainly appeared out of substantial murk - not exactly brilliant VFR.

Straight down viz is one thing, lateral can be quite different. As every approach to minimums will prove.

[Oldpilot55]

Was the weather not bad when the boat people were strutting their stuff but on the dreadful concert day the weather was a huge improvement. Apart from the aeronautical stuff which was lovely would it not have been lovelier if the reds had done some loopy type things? I liked the union jack on the Palais but not the straight red, white and blue which looked un petit francais, n'est-ce pas?

[Shell Management]

The Repubique Francaise is Bluer, Blanc & Rouge.:ok:

[rans6andrew]

the weather at the fly by location is not the only factor. It needs to be "doable" at wherever the formation is coming from and, later, where they are going back to.

We dropped in at Leicester for fuel one day last year, on our way from Wickenby, and found ourselves at a Club Family day. There was supposed to be a Vulcan fly by, the weather was superb, but at Doncaster, where the Vulcan was coming from it was rain and cloud down to the deck. It didn't show. We had intended to visit Netherthorpe that day but when we called for PPR they said no chance due to weather....

Safety first!

Rans6.....

[Talkdownman]

your official weather summary only emphasizes how much caution must be used in trusting official met. The actual report by Foxmoth is interesting; heavy rain, and the London Shard disappearing into the murk. I was only watching on the gogglebox, but the formations certainly appeared out of substantial murk - not exactly brilliant VFR.
It seems to me that foxmoth's 'actual' was for Sunday and not Tuesday! I watched the Tuesday flypast from St James' Park (only because we were denied access to the Mall by the yellow T-shirt crowd controllers). The cloud base was high and scattered and (in my most humble opinion...) matched the EGLL METAR. (But what would I know after 46 years METARS...)

No. It was not 'murk'. And the brollies only went up at the time of the flypast. It was good VMC and perfectly adequate for visual flight and for formation flight up to, and during, the flypast.

[Pace]

Really the conditions were irrelevant because either it was fly able or it was not ?
It was because a fly past occurred so for me it was about content!
The flypast should have been a celebration of aircraft which have served our Queen and country during the period of her reign from aircraft from the start of her reign to the high tech machines which defend us today!
Sadly the Dads Army flypast with a couple of Kingairs hardly showed our air power ??
More likely a showing of how our RAF have dwindled to dads army status.
Pace

[foxmoth]

Yes, if you read my post it is a reply to the chap who commented on the FAA wimping out on Sunday when there was supposed to be a helo fly past.

[Duckeggblue]

I was just happy that we got any aircraft to look at - the asembled flypast put a huge smile on the Queen's face. Job done as far as I can see.:D

[RNHF_PILOT]

I would like to assure the OP that we at Royal Navy Historic Flight did everything we could to ensure the Swordfish was ready and available for the River Pageant.

When the Swordfish carried out its post winter maintenance check test flight in May we discovered a major oil leak after landing. On investigation it was discovered that there were some major issues with the engine which resulted in a ground up rebuild of another engine with 3 weeks to run to the Pageant. The engineers worked tirelessly night and day (including the weekend) to ensure the Swordfish was ready in time and we finally managed to have it ready by the Wednesday before the Pageant.

When it was apparent on Friday afternoon that the forecast for Sunday was going to be poor we elected to fly the Swordfish to Biggin Hill on Saturday to ensure that it was as close to London as we could reasonably get it in order to achieve the flypast. The Swordfish is day/VFR only and we didn't want to be in the situation where the weather was good enough for the flypast but not good enough for the transit from Yeovilton.
On the day itself the weather was poor to say the least and at the time the aircraft were due to launch the cloud base at Biggin Hill was down to 200ft. There is no way we could reasonably be expected to carry out a flypast in those conditions. Even the Rotary Wing element in the Diamond Nine were unable to launch as I’m sure you can imagine the implications of having 9 helicopters plus 2 airborne spares going IMC at the same time in the London Control Zone!

I can assure you nobody was more disappointed to not be able to conduct the flypast than the particpating crews. The public only get to see a 30 second flypast. For the crews it involves months of preparation, planning and paperwork to get the clearances to do it. When the clearances have been received, hours of briefing, flying and debriefing for every practice.

It must be remembered that Swordfish LS326 is the only flying example in the world right now (I believe the Canadian one is grounded again) and therefore needs to be looked after carefully in order to preserve her for future generations to enjoy.
I think Fleet Air Arm Pilots would be more likely to turn in their graves if we had have damaged the only airworthy Swordfish through stupidity.

I can assure you that every time I fly LS326 I feel the responsibility of flying such a rare aircraft very keenly and if there is the slightest hint that something isn't right then I will elect to land as soon practicable rather than risk damaging the aeroplane. Spares are extremely difficult to come by so we have to maintain and preserve everything we have.
We are only custodians of these machines, they belong to the nation and need be treated with the greatest care and respect.

RNHF is not fully funded by the RN and we operate on a shoestring, we therefore rely on charitable donations made to the Fly Navy Heritage Trust in order to keep our aeroplanes airworthy for the public to enjoy.
If you wish to continue to see aeroplanes like the Swordfish remain airworthy then I can commend you to join the Fly Navy Heritage Trust in order to preserve these wonderful aeroplanes for current and future generations to enjoy. For further information about RNHF please visit our website www.royalnavyhistoricflight.org.uk (http://www.royalnavyhistoricflight.org.uk/) there is also a link to our FB page with all the latest news on it.

I hope that answers any questions as to why we 'wimped out'.

Regards
Simon Wilson

[stickandrudderman]

Straight from the horse's mouth!
:D:D:D:D:D:D

[mad_jock]

Glad someone like you (and all the others) is looking after these historic aircraft Simon.

I am sure if anything had happen the lady herself or at least her husband would have had words to say.