Yarrawonga, Doesn't Want Visitors

[Dvation]

Recently flew into YYWG and was amazed to find their new signage warning us in no uncertain terms that "without written permission" upon returning to our aircraft we would be fined $2000 big ones unless we had first visited the "colonel of stalag YYWG" for our WRITTEN PERMISSION to re enter the visitor parking area. Also noted the gates chained and padlocked, the girls not happy about climbing the fence to exit the visitor parking area !!

[Mach E Avelli]

Is the same warning posted in ERSA? If not, next time go with bolt cutters and cut your way out of the gate, and back in if necessary. Just be sure to wear your ASIC....

[AussieNick]

Nothing noted in the ERSA and nothing about permission required to operate from there

[Wallsofchina]

Isn't Yarrawonga undergoing construction works?

[YPJT]

Just be sure to wear your ASIC....
YYWG is not a security controlled airport. No requirement to display an ASIC airside.

As AussieNick said, nothing in ERSA so the operators can hardly expect pilots to comply with their made "on the run" rules. Like a lot of these types of airports, run by complete amateurs with little or no experience in airport operation.

[Worrals in the wilds]

I thought only a government statutory authority could fine people.
I know carparks do, but my understanding was that it is usually either dressed up as 'retrieval' fees or similar, or backed by the local council in a bylaw. IIRC fine revenue collected by the major airports goes directly to the federal government, because they are not statutory authorities.

Anyway, if it's not in ERSA it doesn't exist, right? :E

[Fieldmouse]

There is a sizeable disconnect between what aircrew expect and what airports need to do these days in regards operations, and there is no reliable real time means of the two communicating.

ERSA is a terrible means of presenting TIMELY information to pilots and the NOTAM system won't carry operational information of this nature.
I don't know what the solution is.

It certainly sounds like Yarrawonga could have done this better though.
Maybe they have an update for ERSA in the system and it just didn't make it.
Certainly there is nothing in the June 24 2012 update either.

[kaz3g]

I find that really hard to understand.

My experience at YYWG has been one of totally friendly and helpful airport management.

Fuel is at least 10 cents per litre cheaper than the Yarra Valley, the shop carries lots of gear, a car is available at very cheap rental and you can grab a free coffee or tea.

It is a council-owned facility so they can make their own by-laws. Irrespective of ownership, I would be very careful following some of the advice already posted here.

In my view, if those signs are as stated, and you enter the airport airside, you have an implied invitation to do so. You have a right to use the airport but no right to do (criminal) damage to its infrastructure.

If you enter from outside without permission and have to break in to do so, you enter as a trespasser and can be charged with that as well as criminal damage.

It seems to me that a sensible course of action would have been to speak to the airport manager or, in his absence, the fuel guy who is also the GA Flying School proprietor to sort the issue out. It's not too hard to guess that the sign and penalty are there to protect aircraft owners from unauthorised access to facilities AND the visitor 's aircraft.

Kaz

[MajorCorporalArse]

I went up that way for a soplo nav about 12 months ago, Nothing was noted up that way and the new terminal was just completed..

I think you'll be okay either way, hardly doubt they will fine you and it will stand considering your main reference is your ERSA.

So considering you landed and parked in visitors area, presuming you haven't been fined then?

Shame if they do this to the strip because it's a good spot to go for golfing (plus our hoiday house!)

[VH-XXX]

I just did the obvious and rang the Moira Shire Council for further information.

The signs were removed this week because "there was an issue with them," so Dvation, bad timing on your part it looks like.

When Mark calls me back I will endeavour to find out why they were put there and whether they really are going to try and fine you $2000 for trying to inject money into their local economy.

:cool:

[Worrals in the wilds]

It is a council-owned facility so they can make their own by-laws.Fair enough.
It's not too hard to guess that the sign and penalty are there to protect aircraft owners from unauthorised access to facilities AND the visitor 's aircraft.I have a personal hatred of Big Scary Signs. They never discourage proper law breakers who don't give a toss anyway, and just annoy/intimidate everyone else. A lot of the time (though not in this case, thanks for the info) they're not even legal. :mad:

[LeadSled]

Folks,
Is this an ALOP aerodrome, or was it originally built by the local council?
Tootle pip!!

[Eye on]

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p511/eyeon2/lockedgate004.jpghttp://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p511/eyeon2/lockedgate012.jpgAt 3 pm today 5 June the signs still displayed.

Think they mean excepted.

[VH-XXX]

Dear Dvation,

You'll need to learn to be more observant when you read things!!!!

The sign (which is still there apparently) has replaced the old one that said you need "a valid reason" to be airside. They were given legal advice that "a valid reason" is too loose and as such, "written permission / authority" (whatever is on the sign now) should be used.

Written permission implies a you have:

a. valid pilots licence
b. a valid flying certificate
c. a need to access airside
d. one or all of the above

It is essentially a standard CASA style council sign just like the ones at every other council airport (plus more) around the country.

I hope that clears up your concerns!

(To your credit though, they have received around a dozen phone calls in the last two weeks about these new signs)

Piddle Doop !

[kaz3g]

An ALOP certified aerodrome.

Kaz

[Dvation]

The Actual Sign Reads,

RESTRICTED AREA
TRESPASSERS PROSECUTED

NO PERSON or VEHICLE IS PERMITTED
BEYOND THIS POINT UNLESS AUTHORISED
IN WRITING BY THE OFFICER IN CHARGE
OF AERODROME OPERATION.
EMERGENCY SERVICES PERSONNEL
AND VEHICLES ACCEPTED
PENALTY $2,000
by order of the chief executive officer,
MIORA SHIRE COUNCIL.

I checked out a few similar airports today and found none with even similar signage. Yarrawonga sure seems to be still the un friendly user airport !!

[Worrals in the wilds]

(To your credit though, they have received around a dozen phone calls in the last two weeks about these new signs)So maybe the new signs are a little scary and/or confusing. ;)
Nothing like Legal Advice for making clear water murky, at a bargain $250 per hour plus email reading fee. :\
Have they also painted every flat surface yellow and removed the toilet paper on the basis that toilet paper related injuries may result in a damages claim? :ooh:
Dipple Poop...:}

[Air Tourer]

OK, but what's with the locks. If a lady passenger "fell" over a fence, it might cost the council more than $2g.

[Frank Arouet]

And the sign said "Long-haired freaky people need not apply"
So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said "You look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do"
So I took off my hat, I said "Imagine that. Huh! Me workin' for you!"
Whoa-oh-oh

Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?

And the sign said anybody caught trespassin' would be shot on sight
So I jumped on the fence and-a yelled at the house, "Hey! What gives you
the
right?"
"To put up a fence to keep me out or to keep mother nature in"
"If God was here he'd tell you to your face, Man, you're some kinda sinner"

Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?

Now, hey you, mister, can't you read?
You've got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
You can't even watch, no you can't eat
You ain't supposed to be here
The sign said you got to have a membership card to get inside
Ugh!

[Lead Guitar]

And the sign said, "Everybody welcome. Come in, kneel down and pray"
But when they passed around the plate at the end of it all, I didn't have a
penny to pay
So I got me a pen and a paper and I made up my own little sign
I said, "Thank you, Lord, for thinkin' 'bout me. I'm alive and doin' fine."
Wooo!

Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?

Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Sign
Sign, sign

(Five man electric band. Canada).

[K28]

Someone needs to take there own advice

You'll need to learn to be more observant when you read things!!!!


So

IN WRITING BY THE OFFICER IN CHARGE OF AERODROME OPERATION

implies

Written permission implies a you have:

a. valid pilots licence
b. a valid flying certificate
c. a need to access airside
d. one or all of the above


Not sure that would stand up in court

[VH-XXX]

I was just passing on the message from the AD operator who thinks the sign is fine. Interesting that the way he described it sounds quite the opposite to what you have posted!! and he said he had legal advice!!

No wonder he's had a dozen phone calls.

At least we know it's an innocent sign and should have read "no entry without a valid pilots licence" or words to that effect.

Perhaps I'll call him back again.

The woman on reception at the council offices believed it was removed due to concerns over it, but the operator said they were still there. Sounds like an organized establishment!

[isis64]

What IS all this nonsense about? Isn't YYWG a small, uncontrolled country airport?

Every airport I fly out of has a sign which forbids entry to persons "without authority or lawful reason", so why make a blanket exclusion as well as chains on the gate?

Smacks of a control freak somewhere in the organisation!

[VH-XXX]

Every airport I fly out of has a sign which forbids entry to persons "without
authority or lawful reason", so why make a blanket exclusion as well as chains
on the gate?


Did anyone even read what I wrote when I said that I took the initiative to ring the council and ask them?

so why make a blanket exclusion

It is NOT a blanket exclusion.

A poorly worded sign, yes, but not a blanket exclusion! :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:


If you really want access to get off the airport, then go and park outside the hangar of that guy who wears the green overalls 24x7 with the badges all over them, I think he flies a trike or something, I'm sure he'll let you through :rolleyes:

[Homesick-Angel]

Write the text a bit bigger XXX. I dont think we heard you....:E

[VH-XXX]

AT LEAST I DIDN'T YELL IT.

[K28]

I think the guy in the green overalls is also the one who now issues parking fines if you park your plane somewhere he doesn't like

[kaz3g]

I have also just had a conversation with the Council officer responsible for managing this certified aerodrome.

The Council had less blunt statements on previous signs but found people were still doing the wrong thing and causing difficulties with their certification. Their legal advisor gave them the current wording which they now admit is also open to incorrect interpretation.

Their representative confirms absolutely that the intention is to protect the infrastructure, aircraft and visitors. There is no intention to prevent lawful access and egress by pilots, passengers and other persons going about their business at the airport.

They are considering my suggestion that they (1) add a clause at the end of the current proscription excepting pilots, pax etc; and (2) place signs with an arrow as appropriate pointing to the various UNLOCKED pedestrian gates around the perimeter.

Moira Council has spent a lot of money upgrading the airport and has actively encouraged aviation activities at YYWG when many others are closing them down (Geelong) or talking about it (YKTN). Pilots should be supporting them and their tenants, not talking about forcing entry or staying away.

At least that's how I see it.

Kaz

[Jenna Talia]

Kaz,

I fully agree. I find the place a joy to visit and very pilot friendly, with no landing fees. It does not deserve the thread title.

Hey Frank, showing your age there. One of the best songs from the year 1971 :ok:

[Worrals in the wilds]

Hey Frank, showing your age there. One of the best songs from the year 1971 http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif
And remixed by Fatboy Slim in 2005's Don't Let the Man Get You Down. :}

They are considering my suggestion that they (1) add a clause at the end of the current proscription excepting pilots, pax etc; and (2) place signs with an arrow as appropriate pointing to the various UNLOCKED pedestrian gates around the perimeter.
Sounds like a solution. Signage is surprisingly difficult to get right; perfectly intelligent people come up with all sorts of weird interpretations that were never intended. Stick figures are good. ;)

[kaz3g]

There is ample provision for parking aircraft at YYWG which is safe and secure.

You seem to be more deeply involved than you are perhaps letting on, K28. Is it unfair to surmise that you might have been one of those whose actions caused the change in the signs?

My understanding from the conversation I had with the Council was that the problems were constituted largely by aircraft being parked so they obstructed taxiways and vehicles being driven on taxiways without complying with the MOS for certified aerodromes.

Those complaints don't sound like they originate with visitors.

Kaz

[K28]

Kaz3g

Considering I have never driven a car in the area and only ever parked a plane in the designated parking area you would be incorrect


I haven't seen the new signs but assuming that the wording Dviation has is correct it would appear the council who have done a great job with the airport are getting some bad advice

[VH-XXX]

You're going to get complaints like that when you have people living at the airport and some people think they own the place (in some ways they do).

I was there and a local saw a mate land in his aircraft and he insisted that his landing was too hard and told him he had prop struck. There was no damage to the prop and the landing wasn't overly hard. The local then researched and found the owner of the aircraft, rang him up and told him about the incident that never actually happened. Strange bunch. Overalls man is another story again!

[onetrack]

One for Frank ...... Signs from around Australia - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-23/signs-from-around-australia/4025898)

(I must say I do like photo number 11 - that's truly Australian. Now, this photo No. 11 wasn't taken at YYWG, by any chance, was it?? If it was, they need a better sign) :)

[Frank Arouet]

Good one, thanks for the laugh. It even has aviation content and is relevant to the topic. Well done that man:)

As for the song lyrics, well, if you remember the sixties, (and seventies), you weren't there. I'm flat our remembering what happened yesterday.

[isis64]

"It is NOT a blanket exclusion.

A poorly worded sign, yes, but not a blanket exclusion! "

Here's an idea XXX. Perhaps the operator should place another sign next to the existing sign so that dummies like me will be able to interpret the precisely worded first sign.

[isis64]

It was a friend of mine who reported the supposed prop strike.... he is from Melbourne, not Yarrawonga.

[Fantome]

I too have found the folk there particularly good. One time heading for Bris via Benalla, found BLA fogged in so kept going west where Yarrawonga was right on the fog boundary. But had meanwhile run off me map... Fueller bloke ducked back into his hangar. Came out with a used WAC and would not take a cent for it.

Frank . . .. . . if memory serves me right , that'll be a surprise. The thing is, we must not let it become a bother. If the synapse doesn't work with a satisfying click, then bugger it... just don't be held up by it. A smile, a shake of the head . . . and keep on keeping on.

[Eye on]

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p511/eyeon2/lockedgate012.jpg

[Frank Arouet]

My neck hurts, I tend to nod these days.

But from memory, last time I was at YYWG I didn't see any intimidating signs, but if I had, it is my usual habit of ignoring them anyway.

It's usually the people that put them up who have the problem, and the sign is simply an attempt at "problem transferrence" which people should transfer back to the person with the original problem.

Don't you people see, it's people who are the problem, not me?

[Tankengine]

Perhaps every private pilot in Australia should write to the council so they can be authorised?!:E

[jas24zzk]

Good Idea tank!

That way we'd provide employment for a couple of local girls processing our applications, and their subsequent annual reveiws. They'll make that 6 monthly when Martha down the road loses her job selling cow shoe due to the taxation.


:D


Cheers
Jas

(PS...not taking a shot, just rolling along with your jest)

[VH-XXX]

It was a friend of mine who reported the supposed prop strike.... he is from Melbourne, not Yarrawonga.

Your mate literally has an astounding memory as I realized earlier today that the prop "strike" was at Wangaratta around 8 years ago on my way back from Narromine :ok:

[Sunfish]

Yarrawonga is now on my "overfly" list along with Mildura.

Friendliest place I've struck up that way is Mid Murray Flying Club at Swan Hill. It's a great spot.

[Xray Tango]

I also clearly remember that poor Cirrus being forced onto the runway, the pilot smacked it on the runway (19er) and actually did a go around the first attempt at landing.
The debris that came off the runway sure made a cloud as the prop dug up the strip sure got our attention, then to all our surprise he came back for another crack at it, this time no better an approach and after a fully compressed nose wheel landing he got it on !!! Wow, what an arrival !!
Then to our amazement he taxid "past the maintenance facility that was open around the back of the hangars for a short time. Shortly after returning to the runway and departing to the south.
And YES, one of the blokes in our group did search the register and put a call into YTDN expressing his horror at the pilots decision to "Press On".
Only recently saw that very same pilot flying a lovely looking RV. Not sure who owns the RV but it seems to be YTDN based.
Ooh, and bye the way, the cirrus incident did happen at YYWG. There were plenty of us present watching.

[Pinky the pilot]

The sign appears to read; 'No person or vehicle is permitted beyond this point unless authorised in writing by the officer in charge of aerodrome operation.'

I am not a Lawyer (wouldn't want to be one either) but to me the sign's wording could indicate that the 'Officer in charge' of that particular aerodrome, ie Yarrawonga, must give you written approval to enter the tarmac area.

One of the best examples of poorly thought out, bureaucratic bungling I have seen in ages!

The Council obtained legal advice on its wording? Yeah, right!:rolleyes:

[Fieldmouse]

Actually the sign is brilliant. It absolves the airport owner from all sorts of legal obligations. Anything bad happens and you don't have written consent to operate there...............I bet their insurance company is involved in this.

[Mish A]

Onetrack,

Talking about signs. The stick figure sign on the way out of the Burketown Airport advising not to ride in the back of utes.

May have been because one of the motels (or only motel) would provide transport by ute only and there were more than two of us. :O

[jas24zzk]

We have to have the original in live for this.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3_2wjRk02s

[Pinky the pilot]

Fieldmouse; An interesting observation!:ok: I may get a 'tame' Lawyer acqaintance of mine* to have a look at this one sometime.





*Yeah, I know. I should be more careful with whom I associate, but I did say he was an aquaintance, not a friend.:O

[metalman2]

Only been in there once, well actually twice, we called in for fuel on the way to temora this Easter and the mate I was with had a brake failure while taxiing out for YTEM, I had already departed ( hence the "twice" ) so I returned and we we're given help by the trike school guys to fix the little bugger, can't say enough about the hospitality and not a cent was charged for the use of the hanger ,oil and tools, didn't really go looking for signs telling me stuff I don't want to hear though.

[YPJT]

I don't think there is much difference between what section 3.15(4) of the Aviation Transport Security Regulaions requires at security controlled airports and what is on Yarrawonga's sign.
I know the regs don't apply at Yarrawonga but just maybe they have had instances of undesirables being airside for the hell of it or causing damage to aircraft or other property and this is the first step in controlling it. Sad sign of the times I know but that's the way it is I'm afraid.

[kaz3g]

Metalman said: Only been in there once, well actually twice, we called in for fuel on the way to temora this Easter and the mate I was with had a brake failure while taxiing out for YTEM, I had already departed ( hence the "twice" ) so I returned and we we're given help by the trike school guys to fix the little bugger, can't say enough about the hospitality and not a cent was charged for the use of the hanger ,oil and tools, didn't really go looking for signs telling me stuff I don't want to hear though.

One of those trike guys was a good friend and he lost his life in a trike this week just near Temora heading towards Yarrawonga in company with another trike flown by "the guy in the green overalls". Real aviators both and always ready to offer hospitality, assistance and mateship.

RIP DavidH... sadly missed.

kaz

[isis64]

Great idea except it seems that every Council officer from the Director of Infrastructure down is refusing to give any pilot written permission as required by the sign!

[LewC]

Catch 22? I guess those Council knobs saw the movie.

[Woodwork]

If the aerodrome is certified, the operator would need to demonstrate to CASA that they are taking steps to control access to airside areas.

Under common law, a person has a reasonable defence against charges of trespass if they are accessing a place open to the public that has no signs, fences, gates, or other notices or measures indicating that it is not a public place. If you landed at the airstrip and approached these notices from behind (ie from airside), and had consulted ERSA and NOTAM and the air/ground signalling area near the windsock, then you have established a solid defence against prosecution (unless you went on to cut the lock from the gate, in which case you have committed an entirely new offence).

Clearly, then, the signs are intended to keep the airport visiting aircraft-friendly by ensuring the airside area is for you to park on, not for Farmer Jack to store his hay bales or the local scout unit to hold an open day on or the local car club to do performance testing (all three of which I have seen at rural airstrips more than once!).

I would suggest that these signs, while poorly worded, are obviously not intended to apply to crew or passengers of an aircraft. As they're confusing, continue to call the council about them until they decide the cost of changing the wording will be worth it to stop the phone calls. But there's no need to become full of hatred for a council that, unlike others, seems to be trying to keep the airport as a place for aviation.

[Xray Tango]

We actually contacted our local solicitor for advice, ( yes we really got advice) and after a somewhat lengthy discussion came to the view that "we ALL need to comply" with the authorities request for " written permission " QUIET SIMPLY , THATS WHAT THEIR SIGNAGE ASKS FOR. There is no mention of pilots being exempt, it clearly states WE ALL NEED WRITTEN PERMISSION. The council has told us this was the need for re entering the area. Like others my partner and I have spoken to the council on several occasions regarding this written permission only to be told by the people who instigated this signage that they WILL NOT be issuing written permission. Go figure !
PS. the people at YTOC are more than happy to have us there. We noticed last weekend that the operator from Bankstown doing the river weekend tours is now using toc and won't return to yarrawonga till the situation is cleared up.
Good on the Miora Shire !! Great news for our tourism, NOT !!

[YPJT]

I have never needed "written permission" even at regional security controlled airports. :ugh:
X-ray Tango, sounds like your are dealing with some right imbeciles there.:rolleyes:

[Tankengine]

Boycott the idiots, and write to them every time you do that!;)

[Pinky the pilot]

If the aerodrome is certified

May I suggest that in this instance it is not the aerodrome that needs 'certifying.*':rolleyes::E

*Think about it.

[YPJT]

We actually contacted our local solicitor for advice,
So a group who obviously have very little understanding on how to operate an aerodrome paid a fist full of dollars to someone who probably knows even less for "advice". :ugh:
Here's an idea, call the operators of your neighbouring aerodromes and pose the question "we have this situation.... blah blah blah.... how would you deal with it"? Well that's how the rest of us approach and tackle these issues but hey, put a couple of over zealous rangers and council bureaucrats into the equation and anything is likely to occur. Anything that is except for a well informed and practical solution.

[Frank Arouet]

Don't encourage Lawyers by paying them.

They lock them up in Libya.

[Eye on]

http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p511/eyeon2/Welcomesign.jpg

[YPJT]

So where exactly are the prohibited areas and how are they notified to airfield users?

[Creampuff]

A masterpiece of almost meaningless passive voice ambiguity and inconsistency. I’m guessing the work experience kid in the council office drafted it.

I wonder how I work out the difference between “aerodrome property”, “prohibited areas” and “operational areas”. Is there a map?

How do I work out if I’m “actually” engaged in operational procedures instead of … errmmm … virtual procedures?

Who gets fined if dogsh*t doesn’t get picked up and properly disposed of? The dog?

Is “shall” intended to mean something different from “must”? If not, why different words?

Great idea defining “C.A.S.A.” Where else does “C.A.S.A.” get used on the sign?

If I flew in there, I’d ignore it (after a good laugh).

[Xray Tango]

This "IS" unfortunately an airport that is surely very very confused regarding its obligations to the rate payers and visitors to the area.We no longer are prepared to use YYWG and now use corowa just to be safe and avoid the possibility of expensive litigation. One of our aero club members who was about to start training at yarrawonga has now begun training at YTOC. He also contacted the Miora Shire regarding this required written permit and was told he would not be issued with such.
I'm sure in time that the Shire will see the error of their way and amend this situation and re sign the airport.
We were also advised by the shire that the airport ARO was told by the authorities that he was not permitted to use his unregistered unroadworthy uninsured (due to no registration) quad bike on the grounds.
It really seems that perhaps a big broom needs to go through the whole management of this airport before its too late ??

[jas24zzk]

Maybe some letters to the training organisation explaining that these restrictions are sending their business to the competition.

I know i'd be all over councils behinds if it was done to my business.

[YPJT]

This situation is not unlike what is occurring at another small airport south of Perth where even the AROs allegedly fancy themselves as quasi ATCers. :=:=:=

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Developers are encouraged to assist in the funding of new works, services and facilities required by the expanding residential population, particularly in the Shire's four major townships and on land within the
Yarrawonga-Bundalong CorridorFrom Vic.Gov.au (http://www.dpcd.vic.gov.au/planning/planningschemes/get-information/historical-planning-information/planning-scheme-history-index/Moira?sq_content_src=%2BdXJsPWh0dHAlM0ElMkYlMkZzMy5kcGNkLnZp Yy5nb3YuYXUlMkZwbGFubmluZ19zY2hlbWVfaGlzdG9yeSUyRmM1ZDQwOTZh Yzk5Mjk5MTU5NTRiOWJlYmIzNTg5Y2M0LnBkZiZhbGw9MQ%3D%3D)

Hmmmmm...time to start up the letters. Aerodromes are not good neighbours for land hungry developers.

The existing use and future development of the Yarrawonga Aerodrome should be protected from and not impeded by the urban development of Yarrawonga;

�� Development of the Yarrawonga Aerodrome will promote the commercial sustainability of the facility as a regionally significant transport link and leisure facility. Business and tourist development that can link with the airport will be encouraged; and

�� Development to the east of the township will be generally in accordance with the recommendations of the Yarrawonga to Bathumi Development Plan 2002.


Should, Not the same meaning as Must or Shall

You can bet London to a brick the first two aims will not be in accordance with the Development Plan!

Development Plan at page 9. Hopefully, the boundary stays that way above the highway.

[jas24zzk]

Maybe some of these muppets that make said decisions affecting airfields should go spend some time in the GAFA

Maybe then they might begin to to realise the community benefits of a functioning/accessible airfield.

[Super Cecil]

The scum sucking, bottom feeding parasites have everybody running scared, this is one of the results.

[JACREW]

They're not GA friendly or savvy there. It's ALL RAA??????

[kaz3g]

All RAA there ...???

RUBBISH!

There are several active businesses there working on/with GA Aircraft including a flying school, a refurb business and a couple of LAMES from memory. The lovely lady at Pumkin Head doesn't discriminate and neither does the aero shop where you can also get a cup of tea or a cool drink, or a hangar for your aircraft overnight and a hire car to take you into town.

Don't wipe the airfield off just because the Council puts up a stupid damned sign that means virtually nothing if you are a normal, responsible pilot. And perhaps give them credit for widening the bitumen, putting in a new terminal building to enhance the facilities and promoting the "air park" environment concept in a business climate where most councils are trying to subdivide.

It just happens that the AAAA is holding its Spring Fly In and AGM at YYWG 21-23 September which will probably see at least 100 aircraft arrive there for the weekend. Most of these are GA aircraft sans training wheels and I suggest all you knockers book your accommodation early because it will be BIG!

Kaz

[jas24zzk]

Sorry Kaz, but what about the written permission to fly in? or is that expempt for the even?

[Tankengine]

100 Aircraft @ $2000 a pop sounds like a tidy little earner!:E

[Xray Tango]

Just imagine the debacle that's going to take place when all the planes fly in for the "big yarrawonga fly inn" only to find the gates locked, and of course those very welcoming signs warning of entering without " written permission".

What a joy for the poor unsuspecting pilots, welcome to yarrawonga !!

They will ask the ARO for written permission as required by the MIORA SHIRE AIRPORT SIGNAGE only to be told by the airport manager to "stuff the shire" there idiots !!

Surely the shire needs to re word the signage prior to this event to hopefully save some face, common sense must prevail !!

[JACREW]

Wouldn't it be nice and friendly to see a "Welcome to Yarrawonga Aerodrome" at the entrance and the "Conditions of Use" removed and left for the 'air side'.

That would be inviting and 'friendly'.

[Xray Tango]

It seems the ARO and Moira Shire are finally backing down on the "written permission" access for the Yarrawonga Airport.

The shire has blotted out the "written permission" wording and new signs are being worded.

And who ever said the sword was more mighty than the pen !!

AT LAST.

[SIUYA]

Creampuff...

Who gets fined if dogsh*t doesn’t get picked up and properly disposed of? The dog?

Gold! :D

Is “shall” intended to mean something different from “must”? If not, why different words?

Exactly! Try telling that to the clowns that rewrote the PNG CAR Parts - look at Part 119 to see what I mean!

I always understood that 'shall' and 'must' were (in practice) interchangeable, but that if you really wanted to be pedantic, 'shall' applied to a person or entity that had an obligation to act in a certain way, and 'must' applied to an inanimate object.

For example (using the Yarrawonga Aerodrome sign) 'Dogsh1t MUST be picked up', or 'The dog SHALL pick up its sh1t.'

Or words to that effect. :rolleyes:

Also, for all, it's MOIRA shaire, not MIORA.

[TWT]

Also, for all, it's MOIRA shaire, not MIORA.

No,it's MOIRA shire,not MOIRA shaire :ok:

[SIUYA]

You're right TWT..............and well spotted on the deliberate error! :8

[Xray Tango]

Well well well,,,it seems that due to a change of heads at the Shire Office the Yarrawonga Airport may well be on the up & up !!
At a very recent meeting held by the new members of the shire,it was all positive for the airport. NO more listening to just the "green overalls".
The "locks" are coming off the gates and confronting signage to be removed and replaced with can you believe "WELCOME" to Yarrawonga Airport signs.
Seems they may even see some new GA activity in the coming future.

[Ozgrade3]

Maybe I'm slow on the uptake, or I must have been flying into another 'Yarrawonga' for the last 7 years or so, but I've always found the people there exceeding friendly and accommodating.

[Possum1]

I suppose removing the signs saves the council from having to hire a more competent legal adviser, one who perhaps knows that the word is "excepted" in this context, not "accepted."

[TwoFiftyBelowTen]

Dammit, Poss, I wanted to be the smart-arse that pointed that out. Was ready to pounce until I read that very last comment. Dammit, ... damn it!

[Possum1]

My point is, why didn't more of the contributors spot the Nigerian email standard English in this sign back in 2012 and use this as a legal out for ignoring it or at least taking it with a large grain of salt?

[VH-XXX]

The green overalls should stick to selling dodgey spark plugs from eBay.

[cockney steve]

one who perhaps knows that the word is "excepted" in this context, not "accepted."

Pedant mode on..... Those accepted, are, indeed, excepted .

As someone suggested, Nigerian Scammer grammar, but correct, nevertheless.
Pedant mode off....:}

[Eye on]

Abraham Lincoln had it right :

You can fool all of the people some of the time.

You can fool some of the people all of the time.

But you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

[Xray Tango]

Flew into YYWG and WOW, NO LOCKED GATES, still have the "Green Overalls" diverting incoming aircraft to park in his "private" section so that he may remove you of some CASH on your way out his shop door, but once your awake to that stroke of brilliance its all good !!

Talking to one of the Maintence (lame) guys there, he said the new shire officer's responsible for the airport have taken to listening to the stakeholders of the airport (land owners) after a recent meeting and not just the ARO.

He said there will be new signage installed soon clearly showing the way for short and long term parking.

[isis64]

I heard "green overalls" is moving to Wangaratta".

[DWB50]

I'm intrigued at the comments re "Green Overalls". I know who he is as I have flown into Yarrawonga once & I must say I found he & his wife to be very helpful.
We received a free cup of coffee each & I bought some cookies to eat. I was going to refuel with AVGAS at the bowser reluctantly but instead was offered MOGAS from him at a price I can assure you he wouldn't have made a cracker out of.
I thought it was wonderful to fly into an airfield with an amenity such as this after so many I fly into in the country areas are like ghost towns & you're lucky if you can find a Coke/Chip machine.
Not sure what I'm missing here...........

[kaz3g]

I'm intrigued at the comments re "Green Overalls". I know who he is as I have flown into Yarrawonga once & I must say I found he & his wife to be very helpful.
We received a free cup of coffee each & I bought some cookies to eat. I was going to refuel with AVGAS at the bowser reluctantly but instead was offered MOGAS from him at a price I can assure you he wouldn't have made a cracker out of.
I thought it was wonderful to fly into an airfield with an amenity such as this after so many I fly into in the country areas are like ghost towns & you're lucky if you can find a Coke/Chip machine.
Not sure what I'm missing here...........

I agree wholeheartedly but I'm not intrigued.

What a load of crud there is in some of the derogatory posts I have read here.

The sign was ridiculous. We all agree. But it's intent was to keep out undesirables who might be tempted to help themselves to stuff in someone's parked aircraft or get up to other mischief.

The gentleman who wears the green overalls (a flying suit) is an absolute gentleman and his wife quite lovely. Their hospitality to visitors is wonderful. I stayed a few nights in Yarrawonga a few years ago and parked my Auster in his hangar for $30. He gave me the keys to his car which had full tanks when I took it (and when I returned it again) and would accept nothing for its use. I also had free cups of tea and a comfortable seat in the "shop".

So I keep on going back. Good PR is good business and it would be nice to find it somewhere else on my flying travels.

Kaz

[JACREW]

Sorry Kaz
But the only reason for locks on gates was to restrict and inconvenience operators and stakeholders at airport. Couldn't have hangar owners having easy and required access to there taxiways. Thankfully the locked gates never hindered an emergency. IT was all about 'control'. The hoons and thieves just came in at terminal gate that never had a chain. So security was not the issue. Even the BOM guys were stuffed around with access to their own radar.

There's bigger issues. Aerodrome and taxiways complying with CASA Regs???????? It will take $$$$$$$$$$$ and Moira Shire won't put the hand in the pocket. Unfortunately previous shire staff listened to the wrong person who thinks he knows all about GA - and now they know better and it will COST. Least now taxiways and airside are clear so we can safely negotiate.

[Xray Tango]

Under the advice from ( yep, the green overalls ) the shire had the whole of the "illegal taxiways" painted in the traditional double yellow marker lines in order to make it easier for them to prosecute any user / aviator that god forbid had an aircraft or other actually overhanging the newly painted yellow lines,,,, problem being MORE LIES TO COUNCIL,the taxiways did not comply in the said regs and at the cost to the shire yet again,,,,the lines were swiftly painted out in black,,,,when will the shire learn,,,IF HIS LIPS ARE MOVING ITS PROBABLY NOT TRUE !!!

[jas24zzk]

I understood the paint out of these lines occured sometime ago ?

[CHAIRMAN]

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx111/rone37/d92e8007-daf6-4826-83a0-0cf57abb4bb6_zpsaa82ca52.jpg?t=1405945260

Signage is to be respected at all times:O
Containers are excluded.

[JACREW]

Interesting??!!
Wonder what CASA or RAA would say about Joy Flights in a TRIKE????
Wonder if the operator has insurance for Joy Flights. I was under the impression Joy Flights were not permitted. Usually go under the muse of TIF????.

Wonder if CASA are interested in this thread???

The lines?? Obviously only had yellow paint??

[Aussie Bob]

I think you will find that they were in fact trial introductory flights with the hope of gaining a student. I know there is a grey line in this conduct but WTF, flying schools are doing it everywhere, selling trial flights to thrill seekers with a very low retention rate, if you desire a trike ticket this is how it starts.

The fact that Alloverit seems to want to berate an operator on his first post speaks volumes. Whats your beef buddy?

[Squawk7700]

Alloverit, love your post :ok:

If they are HGFA, then the CFI can "induct" another "instructor" to take passengers on TIF's only as long as that pilot has completed 100 hours of flight :ok: Not sure if you were hinting what I was thinking ;)

Years back the couple at Bright used to to the same thing and even came back with engines off from up in the hills. Unfortunately I believe they shut down after the CFI suffered a sudden illness. Lovely couple.

[kaz3g]

Dear Mod...The post you mention seems to me to be a not so clever but rather sly attempt to diminish the reputation of the person named in it and his commercial operation.

Kaz

[Squawk7700]

It seems that the offending post has been removed. But that being said... this is a rumour network and if there's some truth in it, well perhaps it is valid that it stays there.

If there are in fact "Joy Flights" being advertised, then a clear breach of the regulations is taking place be it RA-Aus or HGFA registration. Aside from the allegations of night and formation flying, Joy Flights are a clear breach.

[Old Akro]

There are strong rumours of giving " TIF's " to tour buses. But I have never seen it first hand.

I did however watch with my own eyese 2 trikes doing low level formation flights slightly after published last light (but with some remaining visibility) over the runway in both directions - ie they were kind of flying a barbell pattern over the runway and a couple of the outlying hangars. From where I stood it looked like windsock height, but it was probably 50ft or so.

If it was GA the pilots would just about be locked up, but RA (Aus) seems to laugh it off.

[kaz3g]

Low level and formation endorsements are provided for in the RAAus Flight Manual.

Obviously flight after last light is not.

Kaz

[Old Akro]

Low level and formation endorsements are provided for in the RAAus Flight Manual.

Over a certified public airfield with PAL and published instrument approaches?

[kaz3g]

If you have direct knowledge and believe an aviation safety incident has occurred you are captured by sections 18 and 19 of the Transport Safety Investigation Act and should do your duty

Kaz

[Old Akro]

CASA says its an RA (Aus) issue. RA (Aus) says they are under resourced. One day its all going to end in tears.

[kaz3g]

Mandamus...the great prerogative writ!

Kaz