View Full Version : ATPL hour build with American registration
Hello to All
It is my first post on the Forum
I hold PPL JAR-FCL and are doing my ATPL in Greece I have 6 subjects to finish
the ATPL theory and parallel building hours to start my IR
If any one knows i was told that i could not do my hour build with a (N) registration
holding a JAA PPL in Greece and had to do it with a European registered aircraft i am confused as i cant get a strait answer ,air clubs have registration N aircraft that can be used for hour building but not for training PPL-CPL-IR ect ( i was told)I asked at the Hellenic CAA and was told they have no problem if it is only hour building and if it would be ok with my academy ,my academy strictly states that it is against the law,
can any one that knows were i can find any information about this so that if i log on hours they are recognized by law with no problems
2nd Jun 2012, 14:35
Your academie is talking rubbish. More than likely so you have to hire thier aircraft.
Alot of UK modular students and infact most of the intergrated ones as well have a large percentage of there hours in N reg aircraft.
The unfortunate thing is that everything is in a bit of a change just now and normally we would just say look at your countries ANO. BUt now we have a thing called EASA FCL to conform with. You need to get hold of that.
That what i was thinking too!!!!!
i found the November airplane at half price and was hopping to save money on the hour building but they had a go at me saying you need a special license from the CAA to fly a November registered airplane with a JAA PPL and for no purpose will it be granted for hour build towards a JAA ATPL so thanks for the info just had a look at the EASA site have a lot of reading to do to find out were it is printed in all those PDFs,I can understand the training part,that it has to be a European registered aircraft
i truly respect that but for hour building as long as it is insured under JAA requirements
cant see what the problem would be.
its just so they don't lose the rent of there airplane!!!!!!\
I believe that they either don't know the law bout this or just don't want to loose money
I have to find this in writing but the EASA site is very tricky cant find what i need i was told that JAA-FCL1.080 IS WHAT IS NEEDED by an air club that have a November registered aircraft but it is not very clear if any one has seen this and can send a link it i would be very great full if i find it i will post for future students
2nd Jun 2012, 22:18
One of the things I like best about the United States is the relative lack of barriers to vertical movement for individuals who are willing to work and have the zeal to improve their lot in life by moving up through the socio economic levels of society. Millions have found it the land of opportunity; life liberty and the pursuit of happiness and all that.
It seems to me that Europe is making it much more difficult by introducing costly, regulatory burdens and obstacles for those not of “noble” birth, “old money” or elite political connections to change their lot in life and become professional aviators if they so choose.
Our airline has flying for us German, Scandinavian and French Captains. What an incredible asset they are to our organization as flight officers and instructor pilots (as are the Middle Eastern and Asian pilots we have). Each one of those European individuals are a first generation immigrant, who left Europe in their 20s, to pursue their dream of commanding an airliner in the United States. Collectively they are our gain and Europe’s loss, we are fortunate to have them.
Those pilots are better off in the left seat of the airliner or instructor’s position that they have earned, than doing some “less demanding” task that some anonymous bureaucrat or “system” would have relegated them based on their perceived “station in life”.
So, for all of you in Europe who are running into newly erected barriers, difficulties and obstacles rooted in Brussels and in the reams of new onerous regulations that you yourself had little or no input into bringing them about, you have my sympathies.
Becoming an airline Captain is a hard enough road; and it looks like it is going to get more expensive and onerous.
All societies have their problems. The United States is flooded with problems,but keeping good pilots needlessly out of the air is just so “unnecessary”. All those hours, training, landings, approaches, night flights, cross countries and airwork in that "N" registered aircraft was not really "flying" at all..............pity..........
3rd Jun 2012, 07:06
You are so right. That's why I left JAA land for FAA land a long time ago. Everybody gets his/her chance in the U.S. Those who work hard will make it.
In Europe, it seems as they do everything to try to stop you from dreaming of being a pilot, from the 6 hour grueling and ridiculously expensive medical (500€) where they try to find any details of superficial health conditions, to the training itself, not far from 80,000€. Not counting the fact that you will have to fork out an extra 20-30,000€ for a type rating, and why not double that for line training, since you need those 500h on type minimum to submit your application for an F.O. position. They will have you sit in a class from 9 to 5 for six months up to year doing nothing but ground school, and learning irrelevant facts that you will never comme accross again in your life as a pilot. Once you get past that, you will pay anywhere up to 100€ as fee for each of your 14 exams. I know in France most schools charge you 11000€ just for that ground course!!!!The flight test fees are around 800€, and you will need to spend an additionnal 4000€ a year to keep current. Nothing like the FAA and licences for life with just that biannual review. One the things I find crazy and ridiculous, is that a JAA pilot who flies as an expat will have his IR lapse and will need to retake the test after a certain number of years of not flying in JAA land, even though the whole time he has been employed and flying big jets in Asia, Africa, Australia, or America.
Maybe because of all the bullcrap EU pilots go through, the JAA believes they have the "best licence" and any flying from anywhere else doesn't count whether it be 50 or 5000h(if it did, you'd just have to pass an Air Law exam like most ICAO ATPL's to get your conversion, not go through the whole process like a beginner) For all these reasons, I see no interest in getting a European licence, especially as there are no jobs in Europe anyway!
But some smart guys are still willing to spend 100,000€ to say "i'm a pilot" and come here on this forum crying about why they can't get a RHS and where can they buy some time as a passenger acting as an F.O. in some third world country for some SOP-less operator which happens to be on EU and FAA blacklist. And worse, they actually still dream of coming back to EASA land after that and fly for a major with all the bad habits gained (no, not all hours are worth the same) while having used their parent's house to secure a loan they are struggling to repay while being paid peanuts. If they even get paid at all.So sad.
3rd Jun 2012, 07:33
well to be honest its nothing to do with europe the problems the OP is having.
Its all to do with his school being :mad:.
I do agree get your ATPL in europe is expensive!!!! as of companys asking for type ratings that is also very true ,at the moment the skill test on getting your PPL wore 350euro last summer not shore know,as for the theory exams is fist attempt 5 euros a subject 5*14 =70 euros and it is another 7 euros each if you fail so its still ok here (for know)i heard in the UK its about 100euros a subject :ugh: first medical class A is 150 euros and then every year 100euros
those prices i believe are ok the funny thing is with the cost of flying i have found a N reg aircraft to log the rest of my hours at less the half price of what i am paying at my academy it is also based closer to were i live and available every day it all comes up to what mad_jock says the aviation schools are the problem they change the law to suit them so they make more money hopefully i will find what i want in writing and get it done