AOC vs Private OP

[Iceman666]

We have been suggested to go from a private operation to getting our airplane on an AOC.

While searching for information as to whether or not it is worth it I would like to hear from you guys in here.

Any info??

BR

Jess

[Savoia]

Iceman: What was the basis of the suggestion to obtain an AOC?

As you know there are numerous requirements associated with operating under an AOC (by comparison to the private category). These will depend on the authority to which the aircraft is registered and, to a lesser extent, where the aircraft normally operates (local aviation rules).

In many cases operators move onto an AOC when deciding to make their aircraft available for charter but there are other reasons also.

[Iceman666]

The basis was to save money e.g. on fuel, yet I have spoken with the fuel supplier, we use at our home base, who told me that the only difference would be that we wouldn't pay VAT, but we get the VAT back already as it is anyway, being a VAT registered company (non-aviation).

The owner will probably not be willing to charter the aircraft out for others since he needs it to be available for him on short notice.

Jess

[deefer dog]

In many cases operators move onto an AOC when deciding to make their aircraft available for charter but there are other reasons also.

And pray what other reasons would there for be placing an airplane onto an AOC, if not for charter flights? Please don't say tax free fuel, because that aint valid.

I would love to hear why anyone in their right mind would want to put up with the bollox, paperwork, hoops and a ton of other meaningless cr@p if they have no desire to operate for charter.

Can't wait for the answer to this one.

[Savoia]

The answer is fairly simple - some insurance companies offer better rates on hull insurance for aircraft operated under an AOC and while increased passenger liability becomes an 'issue' for public transport ops again, some insurers impose only a small premium for this (according to hours flown).

The cost benefits from savings on insurance tend to be marginal (overall) but .. there are owners who go through the rigmarole in order to reap the little they can. However (and as you might perhaps have imagined) these tend to be smaller aircraft operating on small budgets. For example, the last client of mine who did this owned an MS760 Paris which was used by a local flight school as a 'final hour jet experience' at the conclusion of their IFR course! Yes, he did generate a little income from putting the bird on an AOC but .. the small insurance saving was also a factor in his decision making.

[EMB170]

we used to operate on an AOC and now private, but with a different operator. insurance is now cheaper than before and also the fuel.

the reason for that is, this operator, operates many more aircraft all over the world and gets much better insurance and fuel rates.

most likely, training costs will increase on AOC as all operators i know, visit simulator twice a year vs ounce with private operators.

if you have no intentions to charter out, privat is for sure easier, but you have to be careful which register you pick as different rules apply.

EMB170

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Was that parked on D10? last month in LFPB.

Tried to get pic: but wet/wet/wet..... plus very widy.

All runways in us for departures, due to high southerly wind.....

Glf

[deefer dog]

If your insurance reduced as a result of changing to AOC ops it was for a completely unassociated reason! if you truly believe that saving even 10% of your premium (even if such was possible, which I can assure you it is not) you would still be classified as clinically insane for considering to change from private to commercial. Have you ANY concept regarding what is involved?

Regarding training. Please name a European AOC holder who actually conducts regular training in a simulator. There will be very few because of the costs involved, and EASA not insisting on it. Frankly speaking I believe this is a disgrace, and only those who actually participate in regular sim training are going to be well versed to handle real emergencies that cannot ever be simulated in an aircraft check ride.

[mutt]

Was that parked on D10? last month in LFPB. That didnt look as if it was still flyable!

Mutt

[CL30FL]

Regarding training. Please name a European AOC holder who actually conducts regular training in a simulator. There will be very few because of the costs involved, and EASA not insisting on it. Frankly speaking I believe this is a disgrace, and only those who actually participate in regular sim training are going to be well versed to handle real emergencies that cannot ever be simulated in an aircraft check ride.

Hi
All Swiss AOC pilots going twice a year to the SIM. No OPC on aircraft which is good.
But owners are running away to OE-... And D-....

[jr of dallas]

yep I know a few companies who send their pilots regularly to the sim for their OPCs...In France,Portugal,uk,denmark,Suisse..ect as for the Banana civil aviation of OE...same as their border brothers: cheapstake, greedy and killing this job.

[dirk85]

Also in Italy sim twice a year for AOCs.