Veterans ID card

[grimfixer]

Its a sad fact......we will all end up wearing the rosy specs, spinning war stories and embellishing them profusely whilst criticising the new young blades doing the do in a different way than we did.

Saw this petition via another source and thought it worth putting to the Pprune massif for their thoughts on supporting it.

Identity cards for Military Veterans - e-petitions (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/14243?goback=.gde_44359_member_120247619)

Still remember waiting in a queue and watching local civvy workers for a large firm getting a discount, spotty stude bringing out his NUS card and getting likewise and me being refused with a serving Military ID card! Even more difficult for the ex-mil community. Every little helps!

GF

[Herod]

Agreed. Petition signed. Something else I saw while in the States recently. Our hosts were members of the National Association for Retired Persons, which gave them access to all sorts of discounts at hotels etc. Big groups have clout: maybe we need something like that here.

[Pontius Navigator]

It is not so much the possession of an affiliation card that is needed but the recognition of such a card.

A veterans badge is as good a symbol as anything but it there are no concessions on offer then it confers no benefit.

Now in New Orleans at the cruise terminal I asked if a stall holder would give a veteran's discount - I had no card or badge. He immediately offered 10% then said no, make it 15%.

On concessions though, a local proper sports shop offers 10% on production of a mil ID and our local dry cleaners also offers 10% - I don't think either offers and veteran's discount however.

PS

I have an official Service Personnel and Veterans Agency ID Card which states that I am a War Pensioner. Now there may be other war pensioners without such a card, ring the agency on 0800 169 2277 or 01253 866043. You may need to be a war pensioner but no harm in asking.

[Wrathmonk]

Try these ....

RAFA Retired Service Card (http://www.rafa.org.uk/members/Membership-types/Retired-Service-Card)

British Veterans Recognition Card (http://www.britishveterans.co.uk/card.html)

Neither of these are 'official' and both cost you money. The second one seems to have discounts negotiated with certain companies.

If you want a proper ID card you could always join the Reserves!

[earswentpop]

Ends 311553AAUG12. Need to get a wiggle on and spread the word. Only 2556 signatures at last look.

[jamesman]

Of course we all know that in the US, there are discounts everywhere for serving & retired service folks. However I would say that over here it is more commonplace for servicemen to recive various store discounts, I live in a very high contration of the green side of the mil and most stores & cinema do some kind of mil discount. I even went into Nandos recently and received 20%.

I can only imagine that a retired mil card would also attract a similar, benefit. I will be signing!:ok:

[Bladdered]

Nandos...................................;)

Whatever happened to the Forces Discount Brochure.

[Tinribs]

Austin Reed at their discount warehouse in Thirsk give a large further discount on production of a service ID

They also go out of their way to offer the benefit. A young friend of mine had her 1250 in her purse the assistant spotted it and without any resquest made the discount

Remember the name ......Austin Reed.....

[Geehovah]

I should say at the outset that I don't hanker after the past and retirement really is wonderful. I experienced the massive support for veterans in the US during two tours over there. The experience in the UK is poles apart. It really is the case that veterans are actively persuaded to avoid their former "stomping grounds".

I wish it wasn't the case but I still rely on just one aspect of former service life. At every turn, the Service puts obstacles in the way, most of which a F1250 will fix. It's now at the point where I'm looking for a civilian alternative.

Unlike the US where access to the BX and health facilities is valuable, a veterans ID card at least would confer a recognition of service and essential access.

[Pontius Navigator]

a veterans ID card at least would confer a recognition of service and essential access.

To what end? What do you call essential access?

My Veterans Card does give me essential access as a War Pensioner to NHS facilities directly associated with my war pension. Mind you no one asks what these were nor have I noticed any benefit from this. Put another way, those that can give me preferential treatment seemingly as unaware of my rights.

[LFFC]

To what end?

To me, the biggest issue is to ensure that veterans suffering health problems get the treatment that they need! I'm particularly thinking about those that suffer mental health problems years after they have left the Armed Forces, but as a direct result of their service.

One of the main obstacles that often stands in the way of veterans quickly getting help is that they have little evidence to prove that they were ever in the forces. So in my view, issuing a veterans' ID card is an essential part of a Military Covenant. That fact was recognised several years ago.

MoD Announcement on the issue of Veteran's ID Cards (http://www.hmforces.co.uk/benefits/articles/604-mod-announcement-on-the-issue-of-veterans-id-cards) - April 2009

It is thought that under the proposed plans more than four million former members of the Armed Forces could benefit from preferential treatment on the NHS and, where necessary, access to council housing. These were some of the recommendations made by a Conservative Commission in 2008 where it was considered that greater efforts should be made to rebuild the Military Covenant, an unwritten pact whereby serving and retired members of the Armed Forces receive special treatment in recognition of the sacrifices they have made.

Veterans win fight for 'smart ID cards' (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/veterans-win-fight-for-smart-id-cards-1657028.html) - 30 Mar 2009

Four million former servicemen and women are to be given veterans' cards to ensure they get priority treatment for NHS healthcare and housing, and discounts for services such as transport.

The Ministry of Defence plans to introduce the cards at the beginning of 2010, The Independent has learnt, in an attempt to begin repairing the damage done to the military covenant between nation and armed forces under New Labour.

[Laarbruch72]

I have to be honest, and I can see that I'm in a minority (even a lone voice so far), but I'm not a supporter of a blanket veteran ID card. Unfortunately, I find that some people will inevitably expect it to give them privileges that they are simply not entitled to any more.
I remember when the RAFA "proof of service" cards came in about 15 years back, we had one gentleman produce one at Wyton and he (quite angrily) stated that it should entitle him to visit any RAF station he liked, unescorted, purely on the strength that he used to be in the mob, and that he wanted to look around. We did get a few of those annoyed RAFA card holders that mistakenly thought they'd been issued with a kind of new civvy "1250".

Personally speaking, I left recently after 22 years and now earn a good living in aviation working for a civil company. I don't expect any further access to any RAF station based on past service. I expect that if I have to visit on business, I will be escorted. I'm not interested in a veteran ID card because I don't work for the RAF any more...

Futher, I can't see why I would expect special treatment from certain vendors because of the company I used to work for. I used to get 10% off at Cotswold when I was in, very handy it was too. But I accept that I'm not in now, I work for another company and I don't see why Cotswold would give me a discount based on what I did in the past.

No civvy business owes me a living or a discount based on my previous employment, and no RAF station should expect me at the gates demanding entry. And I'm still not quite sure why I'm in a minority in that view.

The medical stuff I can empathise with by the way.

[mini]

I'm still not quite sure why I'm in a minority in that view. You're not, I suspect. The minority are whinging.

I share your sentiments, when you leave, leave it behind and move on. Civvies don't really give a damn for "When We" stories or mindsets, loose the "Rank (ret'd)" annotation too would be my advice. Show them you're up to it, ie earn it.

As a slight aside, The Mob's a closed community but, once you leave it you should have enough skills and experience to make it without reference to a former life...

Injured servicemen is a totally different argument.

Am I right in saying that there's an Official in the UK CAA that despite being a civvy still describes himself as "Wing Commander?

:ugh:

[Scuttled]

Do we really have to be so self deprecating about it?

It is genuinely pleasant to be in the USA, where a bit of service and hardship for the common good is appreciated. It can be a little OTT for the British sensibilities, but it is a foreign country with a less cynical outlook.

The recognition of service, current and past - seen on badges, hats, license plates, shirts and other accoutrements - is acknowledged at the very least. It's a bit 'cheesy' sometimes, but it is all encompassing, inclusive even, and it engenders a strong National spirit and pride.

I wish we had that, in our own manner, at Homeplate. Britain would be better for it. I think the people's joining our Nation from overseas would benefit from experiencing this pride too. To all our benefit.

[NutLoose]

Yup, nothing that interests me either, will sign it though as it may if issued help those that need it for preferential medical care, though I doubt any of the Government claim would have any substance. I agree with what you say about people still using their rank too.... Get over it, it was a job and you no longer are doing it, so it is Mr.

[Scuttled]

Nah. Sorry.

What's the problem with recognition of achievement if somebody has made SNCO, WO, Queen's Commission in service of the country?

Why so miserly in recognition of this? This is a symptom of the lack of pride in our country. When we were better than now, we celebrated achievement.

How bloody miserable. Even if you couldn't care less, for those that served their entire working life it normally means something. To negate it is mean spirited and pointless.

[6nandneutral]

Today is my first day as a civilian, and having had a RAF ID card for over 38 years and now having nothing, doesn't quite feel right. It would be good if we were looked after a bit better as regards using station facilities and med and dental care, free prescriptions etc. But I suppose the counter argument would be good pension and tax free gratuity.

[Pontius Navigator]

LFFC, have a look at my earlier post regarding the Veteran's Card that I have.

See if that Veteran's Card would fit the bill.

I also get the free TFL Oyster Card.

[Dan Winterland]

I joined the RAFA as a life member on leaving and got the retired ID card. It was useful in the USA where it was treated exactly the same as their governemnt issued ID for ex servicemen, but cock all use in the UK. Now, I live in Asia and I no longer know where the card is.

Petition signed.

[FFP]

A ID card would be useful for getting onto the local base to use the Spar shop..........:E

[Herod]

Ref medical help; anyone suffering Post Traumatic Stress Disorder should contact Combat Stress. I know of one individual who left the RAF over 30 years ago getting help for stress encountered 45 years ago.

[Pontius Navigator]

FFP, probably more use getting OFF the base.

I remember the N***I shop at ISK. It was on the main drag (main? joke) and accessible by all. There was a notice forbiding non-military personnel or their families from using it, probably because it constituted unfair trading compared with the local shops in Forres.

[Mr-Burns]

For f**** sake just leave !!!!!!!

[Pontius Navigator]

Mr B, I think, with the exception of a few Klingons, most people have done just that. What they want seems to be some additional recognition for their service to the country. You object to that?

[Mr-Burns]

No. Of course I don't. What I object to is the ever increasing numbers of people who never stop talking about what they did when they were in the Service. With the exception of the very unfortunate peeps who were victims of the redundancy programme, most of the individuals who I have had the misfortune to meet in the pub, or whose threads I read about on here, decided to leave of their own accord after bitching and moaning about the Service for years before they finally got the balls to leave. They then spend the next 5 years talking about what they did while serving....... and boring me senseless in the process.

[Fanda_2007]

Try Rewards For Forces - discounts for the forces community (http://www.rewardsforforces.co.uk). £20 for lifetime membership and serving forces are included. Lots of discounts already negotiated

Alan

[Pontius Navigator]

Ah Mr B, of course, but slight thread drift then?

The only time I do the 'when I was' is when there is a receptive audience such as at an Aviation Group or such. If you were to 'entertain' me with stories of Gutersloh or Laarbruch Buccaneers I would listen patiently but . . .

War stories are really only of interest to each other if we were there, or shooting a line on Pprune for instance about the Porno film club run in one of the airmens' bashas by the RAFP that upstanding and honest body of men.

No, I see a Veterans' Card in as a quite different and legitimate request if it grants additional privileges like my NHS or TfL cards.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

The only time I do the 'when I was' is when there is a receptive audience such as at an Aviation Group or such.

Or on just about every thread ever started in here.

[Pontius Navigator]

SFFP, true, but then you don't have to read whereas in a bar you could not avoid hearing.

[ratty1]

whereas in a bar you could not avoid hearing.

Is that because boring old duffers tend to talk loud?

[Al R]

War veterans | Transport for London (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14424.aspx?goback=%2Egmp_39666%2Egde_39666_member_117440651)

Worth quite a bit if you go into town regularly?

[Pontius Navigator]

Ratty, what was that? Speak up please old chap.

SFFP I see of all your recent posts there are ten threads to which you contributed in the last month in which I have no interest or experience in learning what pearls you might have cast. Only a few weeks to go then I expect you will either stfu or join we wiw.

[just another jocky]

Whatever happened to the Forces Discount Brochure?

That's hardly worth the paper it is printed on unfortunately. You can walk into most commercial enterprises and get those levels of discount by simply asking as a member of Joe Public. They are derisory discount offers IMO.

A few years ago, a friend of mine used to tour big companies on behalf of Barclaycard employees and negotiate discounts for them. He told me that if he didn't get to 30-35%, he walked out.

You'd have thought that just one of our higher paid masters would have thought this one through; put a Joint Services team together, send them out to every mortgage provider, insurance company, car manufacturer, electrical products chain, travel firm, high street retailer etc etc. Promise them free advertising but demand some real discount or walk to their competitors and see what happens. If my m8 could get 30-35% for credit card employees, how much ought to be gotten for military? It's an instant, unfunded pay rise. FFS, it's so simple.

[Chugalug2]

It seems to me that the difference between attitudes to veterans in the US and the UK perfectly reflects the open-mindedness of the former and the bloody-mindedness in the latter.
All the cards available in the UK seem to have one thing in common, to get them you have to cough up first, and then work on recovering that cost from possible future discounts! Given that everyone now has access to discounts, whether by direct haggling, cash-back sites (such as Top CashBack Official Site - The UK's #1 CashBack Site (http://www.topcashback.co.uk) ), and online deals sites (such as HotUKDeals - Deals, Discounts & Voucher Codes (http://www.hotukdeals.com) ), the use of such a card in preference to such other means would probably cost rather than effect savings!
The only general advantages I can foresee are for entry to places of entertainment and places of medical treatment. For that, this would be a boon and be a means of both private enterprises and UK Gov to express recognition of service to the country. You can see the catch here though, whereas the former might so be inclined, the latter would not. Such gestures are easy to make in opposition, political dynamite when in Govt.
I have therefore signed the petition in the hope that it might allow of a reduced entry to Alton Towers, etc. For a large family group that would be a large amount and well worth the getting. Anything else is a pipe dream...

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Ratty, what was that? Speak up please old chap.

SFFP I see of all your recent posts there are ten threads to which you contributed in the last month in which I have no interest or experience in learning what pearls you might have cast. Only a few weeks to go then I expect you will either stfu or join we wiw.

Not quite sure what is so lamentably sadder, the fact that you felt compelled to check my posting history or the fact that you have nothing better to do with yourself each day other that dribble away here on Prune :sad:

[NewsOfTheWorld]

you have nothing better to do with yourself each day other that dribble away here on Prune

Pot - kettle - over

[Whenurhappy]

I've posted a similar message in a related thread but let's not confused by a discount offered to SP or ex SP at Disneyworld or access to the Commissary with the hard realities of 'vets' in the US. VA hospitals are a necessity because of the lack of a comprehensive and free public health care system. Walter Read Hospital is good - but not without many problems (if I wasn't on my phone I'd put in links to some of the issues).


Vets are having great difficulties in seeking stable employment. Not only is the economy still weak (but, granted, gradually improving) but employers are increasingly viewing SP as 'damaged goods'. I have worked with the US forces a lot over the years and I know a number of guys (Maj - Col/Capt) who are struggling to get decent jobs. The level of 'transition assistance' compared with our resettlement is much lower and is lodged increasingly with the third sector. Furthermore, the massive down-sizing of thje Services will exacerbate the problem.

On a more prosaic level, yesterday I booked overnight ferry crossings and found it was much cheaper to book each leg separately. The inward leg (to UK) was much much cheaper to book using a German website; I went via the Forces Discount website, and even with 10% discount it was about £100 more. We're returning back to Europe at peak time and booked that leg via a price comparator site and save over £150 compared with the company, and got a cabin upgrade. Bottom line - shop around!

[glojo]

Reading this thread there is talk of needing some type of identity card to prove we were in the services to get a better standard of medical care? I'm not sure where I stand regarding this issue but...

What about our medical documents, would they not have references to our time in the services?

[Tankertrashnav]

I'm not sure where I stand regarding this issue but...



Other than those ex-servicemen and women who have a medical condition as a result of military service I do not see that we should have any sort of priority for medical services over those who have never served.

[NutLoose]

How about looking at it on another tact, what can you get, I will start the ball rolling...

As a RAF or Army, ( it does not mention RN lol ) engineers you are entitled to ask for a Halfords Trade Card and get various discounts on their shop prices,

details here

Halfords Advice Centre | Trade Card | Customer Services (http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_14552_productId_565661_langI d_-1_categoryId_173018)


Some stores simply do it on your ID :E


Halfords Trade Card for Forces - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1370141)

Halfords trade card is one of the best discount cards going. They have never entered the trade market before and are aggressively lowering there prices to beat all competition. I am a mechanic in the Army and I had the full brief from one of there card suppliers. If you can get one without showing any quals then get one while you can because they are not meant to be to non mechanics and they could tighten up in future.

The card doesnt give reductions on the push bikes etc but huge savings elsewhere. They also send through discounts about every 2 months. Here are some examples that I have had:

Discount voucher: Halfords diesel oil £10 This is good quality oil and was for 5 litres which is enough for a complete oil change on most cars.

Trade card: I went for the best quality battery that they do for my 2 litre deisel. This was a calcium one and is guaranteed for 4 years. Original price £100- trade card got it for £50

New wiper rubber, should be £8.00 came to £2.50 with the card.

My advise is to get one while you can because once you got one its yours forever. Yep, thats right, no expiry date, they are good for life. Yahoo!

Discounts vary, but just google them, they do offer it on tools, so will be handy for anyone leaving and wishing to become an Engineer in Civi street as their proffessional range is very good, I buy the odd cheapies to modify to suit jobs, and don't mess up my Snap Off stuff with angle grinders..

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Other than those ex-servicemen and women who have a medical condition as a result of military service I do not see that we should have any sort of priority for medical services over those who have never served.

Why even go that far, it's a National Health Service so why should anyone get preferential treatment :confused:

[glojo]

as their proffessional range is very good, I buy the odd cheapies to modify to suit jobs, and don't mess up my Snap Off stuff with angle grinders.. Going very slightly off topic but if you can get a discount at Halfords then their Professional range should not be sniffed at :) These tools come with a life time guarantee which is 'No Quibble' just keep the receipt. There are not the cheapest tools sold by Halfords but they are cheaper than similar quality items..

Would Halfords offer that discount on top of the regular discounts we see for this range of tools?

[just another jocky]

If you service your own car or bike or need tools etc then the Halfords Trade card is definitely worth it (it's free after all). My last 5l of engine oil should have been ~£30 but cost me ~£23. The discounts are even better on windscreen wipers, bulbs etc. Card doesn't work on sale items though.

It seems like it's up to the store manager at the time to decide if they should hand one out. As I do all my own bike & car servicing plus I have spannered a little for some friends who race bikes, he was more than happy to give one to me. If anyone has any difficulty, simply go to another branch and try there.

@glojo...outside of sales, the discount card works on Professional range tools. All mine are Professional range. :ok:

[Roadster280]

Other than those ex-servicemen and women who have a medical condition as a result of military service I do not see that we should have any sort of priority for medical services over those who have never served.

I fundamentally disagree with you there. Anyone who joined prior to about 1994 will have joined up with the right to use Military Hospitals for the remainder of their life. When they were done away with, that right should have been perpetuated in the replacement arrangements. It was not, and that is wrong. If that means priority in the NHS, then that would be appropriate.

Not that it affects me now, as I am an ex-pat, but that very issue continues to grate.

[NutLoose]

Glojo, I don't think it does, and you do not know what the discount will be until you pay.

There is a list of discount amounts here that has been compiled


Halfords Trade Card - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=676691)

And as said, remember as a Serviceman you can get this Discount card if you ermm qualify

Roadster, totally agree with what you say about the Hospitals, it was one of the perks of the job, a bit like having private medical care, and they allowed you some beers on the ward, subject to drugs etc

[Tankertrashnav]

I seem to be sitting somewhere between SFFP & Roadster here. In principle SFFP I suppose you are right, but I was thinking not so much about someone like me who has the usual aircrew back problems and high tone deafness that I can get along with, but more the poor sod who has come back from Afghanistan minus a few limbs and maybe some other bits. Once he's a civilian I still think he deserves a bit of preferential treatment, but maybe that's an emotional rather than a rational point of view.

Didn't know that about military hospitals Roadster, but as I never lived within 100 miles of one it would have been academic in my case.

[ShyTorque]

Going very slightly off topic but if you can get a discount at Halfords then their Professional range should not be sniffed at These tools come with a life time guarantee which is 'No Quibble' just keep the receipt. There are not the cheapest tools sold by Halfords but they are cheaper than similar quality items..

All very well until you find that the receipt was a till slip which has faded to a blank sheet! I bought my son a so-called "Professional" tool kit for his 18th birthday. The first time we used a "Torx" adapter to undo a brake caliper bolt, the adapter snapped clean in half. Also, the chrome is peeling off the spanners, making them unusable (unless you like razor sharp shards of chrome plating embedded in your hands). Total junk! The branch where I bought them refused to exchange or refund for the damaged items because their own till slip receipt wasn't readable due to it fading. The manageress accused me of "trying it on" and that she suggested I might have bought the tools at a car boot sale, cheeky bint!

Needless to say I now only use Halfrauds very much as a last resort. Items such as oils and filters are usually obtainable cheaper at my local motor factor. Also, Halfords staff level of technical knowledge is very poor. I asked for some half inch heater hose and was told they hadn't got any. I pointed to a box of the stuff behind on the shelf and was told it was the wrong size. It was 12.7 mm.... derr! :ugh:

Terrible thread drift but.. from personal experience I had to put the other view to that, sorry. :*

[glojo]

Needless to say I now only use Halfrauds very much as a last resort. Items such as oils and filters are usually obtainable cheaper at my local motor factor. Also, Halfords staff level of technical knowledge is very poor. I asked for some half inch heater hose and was told they hadn't got any. I pointed to a box of the stuff behind on the shelf and was told it was the wrong size. It was 12.7 mm.... derr! I fully understand your frustration and yet I personally know someone that used an extension bar as a drift, damaged the end of it with a hammer and the cheeky devil took it back to his local Halfords who exchanged it on the spot!! No receipt, no proof of purchase just a straight swap, damaged old item for the exact same new one.

Listening to what you are saying it might pay us folks to scan the original receipt and keep the file in a safe place (not the toolbox with the other files!):sad:

[Ron Cake]

TTN

....no military hospital within 100 miles?

If, as your name suggests, you were at Marham, then RAF Hospital Ely was just down the road

[Sandy Parts]

more drifting thread alert - if you read the small print on the Halfrauds pro tool warranty you'll see it excludes 'moving items' so when the ratchet fails - no replace/refund I'm afraid - that said, I still bought some in the last sale as they were a great price when heavily discounted.

[glojo]

Going back to ex service personnel having preference over any other citizen of this country, I find it totally and utterly WRONG... Service personnel that get injured on duty and are forced to retire will already be in the system and surely no precedence is required as they are already receiving the best of treatment available?

Once those injuries have been dealt with, then in ten years time should they jump the queue if they might need further surgery? Whose place will they take, the young school child that may have been struck by a hit and run driver? What about a school crossing lady that gets mown down or someone needing a life saving transplant?

We can all get very emotional and cite our brave service personnel that are getting seriously injured in areas of conflict but what about someone that has never seen any conflict and whilst on leave gets drunk, steps in front of a vehicle and is so seriously injured the are medically discharged. They are ex service and are we seriously suggesting they should jump any queue of civilians who may have far more serious injuries?

Why not let those best qualified deal with each patient on purely medical grounds and prioritise on greatest need, be they black, white, pink, green, bent straight, ex military or perish the thought our old age pensioners!!:mad::\

[Tankertrashnav]

....no military hospital within 100 miles?

If, as your name suggests, you were at Marham, then RAF Hospital Ely was just down the road


Indeed it was, and in fast my oldest son was born there (it's now a private hospital, I believe)

I meant after I came out and moved to the wilds of West Cornwall!

[NutLoose]

Would that then not have put you in range of Wroughton or Halton?

[Krystal n chips]

"
Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav

Other than those ex-servicemen and women who have a medical condition as a result of military service I do not see that we should have any sort of priority for medical services over those who have never served.

Why even go that far, it's a National Health Service so why should anyone get preferential treatment "

To be fair SFFP. TTN does have a valid point here, and, whilst the NHS is here for everybody, those who have incurred physical / mental injuries as a direct result of serving should, at the very least, be looked after once they leave.

Those who seem to make the most noise about benefits ( various) however would also seem to be those who have not quite ( and possibly never will) been able to make the transition to Mr and probably also use their previous rank in civilian life when ever possible.

[Whenurhappy]

The NHS generally prioritises treatment based on need. One of the issues that the Military Covenant has tried to tackle has been the bureaucracy and list-sliding that occurs when SP and their families move into another Health Authority jurisdiction. This is generally not a problem for personnel who are still serving (we are effectively treated as private patients) but it can be an isue for dependents that are already on a waiting list with a chronic or acute condition.

I suspect the average PPruner (serving or 'ex') are able to put up a robust argument to a Health Authority when this happens; however think of your young squaddie's family with his 'partner' and snotty nosed brats - little formal education (typically), little understanding of the System and hubby away for extended periods...this is where assistance is required to receiove proper NHS treatment.

[Chugalug2]

Wuh:
...this is where assistance is required to receiove proper NHS treatment.
Indeed, and isn't that where Commanding Officers should step into the limelight to...uh, command?

[diginagain]

Would that then not have put you in range of Wroughton or Halton? You weren't a Nav, by any chance? :E

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

You weren't a Nav, by any chance? :E

I wondered that as well :D:D:D:D:D

[Al R]

Halfrauds..?

Halfords voted the worst for customer service in Which? High Street survey | This is Money (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2147532/Halfords-voted-worst-customer-service-Which-High-Street-survey.html)

[Whenurhappy]

Yes, perhaps they should - but often the COs aren't aware of these problems - for a myriad of reasons. The Army Welfare Servioce are typically tasked to deal with these problems, but that assistance generally falls to SSAFA or regimental association welfare officers when SP leave the Service. The SP may get the care, but it's the families that often suffer - when, for family reasons, young soldiers (typically mid 20s when they leave) are drawn back to the areas they were recuited from - where there are major problems with social provision. Again, as said before, we run the risk of developing a 'victim' culture within the Services in the UK (especially the Army) where Service leavers are viewed as 'damaged goods' but also expect to receive greater levels of assitance from the general population (access to social housing, NHS care - for non Service illnesses/injuries - job centre priorities etc etc).

[pkam]

whenurhappy.
Quote,( Copy & paste)
I suspect the average PPruner (serving or 'ex') are able to put up a robust argument to a Health Authority when this happens; however think of your young squaddie's family with his 'partner' and snotty nosed brats - little formal education (typically), little understanding of the System and hubby away for extended periods...this is where assistance is required to receive proper NHS treatment.
Why not stop at the young squaddies family point in the sentence? I think the assumed description which followed is totally unnecessary. I hope the "average PPruner" has more generous view of people on not so lofty a platform.

[jindabyne]

I am now an old duffer - as some would like to describe me. As many others, I spent thirty years plus in HM Service, from 1962. Only two of those years were spent in harm's way: the rest was preparing for an all-out war that was in itself unthinkable, but nevertheless possible. I was not in danger of losing my life, other than being required to rehearse, daily, those procedures that were life-threatening. In other words, it was a stressful time, albeit, with its enjoyment. That said, many lives were lost in the process, including more than a few of my mates.

I already wear an old-duffer's metal badge (readily bought), occasionally. But yes, I would welcome a recognised Vet's card. Specifically one that would recognise my Service to my country previously described: of which I'm proud. I don't ask for financial gain, but, for me, it would be nice to be welcomed into my old Base Messes without being seen as a Pariah, and to be given access to other, military orientated, public places with a little privilege.

I hope that those presently serving, and who have served, in more recent and harmful conflict will be accorded better accolade than their predecesors.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

I leave in a few weeks time after having spent over 38 years of the happiest, finest and most enjoyable days of my life in the Royal Air Force.

I now relish the prospect of life on the outside and cannot wait for the adventure that is the rest of my life.

This evening I have set aside a couple of pots of parecetomol along with a clear set of instructions for Mrs SFFP to put the whole feckin lot into my tea one morning should I ever voice a desire to visit a Sgts Mess again or feel the need to start wearing a bloody veterans badge.

[NutLoose]

Well said Jindabyne.

I wouldn't want to, but I can understand those who would like too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NutLoose
Would that then not have put you in range of Wroughton or Halton?
You weren't a Nav, by any chance?


:O

[Whenurhappy]

PKAM.

Unfortunately it is also true. Soldiers these days serve for about 5 years on average (a drop from 8 years average service of 10 years ago). A significant percentage entering the Inf have a reading age assessed between 7-10 years and a similar percentage are then diagnosed as having SEN. This does not mean they are thick; typically their educational background has let them down. 40% are in common law relationships on leaving the Service (in spite of the problems with pensions for the partner if the SP dies in Service) and many come from disfunctional families (up to 30%). A 17 y o applicant for the Army is also likely to have a history of minor criminality and it is accepted they will have also a history of exposure to recreational drugs (Class B/C).

The Army (in particular) is a great agent for social mobility and the majority leaving the Service get steady employment. However, unless they go down the PMC/PSC route, or have managed to qualify in a trade, most are in low-paid jobs and need, inter alia, social housing. Frequent moves during their Service career makes it difficult to gain traction on Council waiting lists (being addressed by the Military Covenant) so many return to their home towns to get support from family and friends. This, unfortunately, does not always end happily. A quick view of the overlay of recruiting patterns and social deprivation with see a very high degree of congruency, regretfully (and has been ever thus). Factor 'access' to other social services - especially health care - and you can see the scope of the problem.

It is glib to blame the CoC for these shortfalls and failings...

[burstwurst]

One thing that puzzles me in this debate is that the MOD has already agreed to a de facto veterans card for Germany based ex-forces personnel. You can look up the above on the bfg.de website. :D

[Chugalug2]

Me:
Indeed, and isn't that where Commanding Officers should step into the limelight to...uh, command?
Wuh:
Yes, perhaps they should - but often the COs aren't aware of these problems - for a myriad of reasons. The Army Welfare Servioce are typically tasked to deal with these problems,
Well, not so tasked by the COs that "aren't aware of these problems - for a myriad of reasons" presumably.
I know that BOF's like me, forever starting out with "In my day...", are less than welcome here and understandably so, but if one has personally seen a system that on the whole worked one feels compelled to speak out when it so obviously doesn't work now.
So, in my day... CO's, subordinate and otherwise, had much greater powers and discretion than now. No doubt "human rights" and "financial reality" have much to do with that change, but at the cost of military effectiveness I would maintain, and at real costs I would guess.
My CO's in turn:
Took on the NAAFI monopoly for trading (or in this case refusing to) on MOD property and won.
Took on the DHSS on behalf of a pilot paralysed for life following an accident while on detachment and lost.
Personally drove a wife from Hullavington to BN to catch the VC10 to Washington, having obtained Compassionate Authority as she had been informed the same morning that her father had died. Once on her way he contacted BDLS Washington to have her met and taken across Washington to board her prebooked flight to MIA, where she was met and travelled on with her brother. Finally my Boss (you've probably worked that out by now) sent a signal to me at Lajes informing me of all this, and finally was first aboard on arr at LYN, anxious that what he had done was OK by me!
Would any of this happen now? Could any of this happen now? The important spin-off to these initiatives (even those that failed) is that they were around the Squadron in a thrice, and everyone new that their boss was prepared and able to go out on a limb for any one of them. Loyalty was thus a two way street and morale was thus enhanced. Military effectiveness hence greater and tiers of pedestrian bureaucracy avoided.
Of course there were good bosses and bad ones. It was always thus, but good bosses were effective bosses as well. Are they now? Can they be now?
As to Station Commanders, they were effectively Town Mayors with almost absolute control over their command, including civilians. The boss who saw off NAAFI was able to do so because his Station Commander endorsed his claim that the Operational Effectiveness of his Squadron required the provision of refreshments to his First Line Night Shifts. The CoC empowering rather than neutering its subordinate commanders. Does that still happen? Can it still happen?
I only asked...