Rub Al Khali

[Dan Gerous]

Apologies if this is the wrong area to post this, but some of you pilots/aircrew may be able to help. I was on Google maps/satellite looking at the empty quarter and noticed 3 dark spots near the Saudi/Oman border on the Saudi side. Zooming in they appear to be 3 fairly large oasis/lakes but with no roads or signs of habitation. I haven't been able to find any info on them so far. Has anybody overflown these, know their names or have any info about them?
Lat and Long's are
20.699600N, 54.732513E
20.899871N, 54.006042E
21.394262N, 54.835510E

Thanks
Danny

[Jayand]

Jeez, somebody must be bored! Have you tried Jeremy Kyle?

[Lingo Dan]

I've just had a look and cannot answer your question, although I did spend about 10 years flying in Oman.

However, for what it's worth, the bend in the border at about 20N, 55E was entitled "MFN" in our nav database: "Middle of F...ing Nowhere!"

In pre-GPS days, navigating along that border was challenging, although there were/should have been markers every few miles. I'm sure I must have unintentionally "visited" Saudi several times, but not as far as these "blobs" on Google Earth.

[Wizzard]

There are several meteorite strikes in Rub al Khali, these may be the marks you can see. Try Wiki

Wiz

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

The geography fits with drainage basins.
The first site has 4 non-natural features, around 60 ft on a side, which may be buildings
I doubt any tracks would show up at this pixel size.
Maybe a PI can help.

[EngAl]

Maybe the salmon fishing lark is catching on!

Ok, hat, coat, fishing rod!

[A2QFI]

Having flown over the Rub al Khali for 6 years I think that we may be looking at Sabkah

Sabkha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabkha)

There were areas in inland Oman where a shallow rainwater lake would form and then crust over so that it appeared to be a dry salt lake. It would bear some weight but anybody breaking though the crust could find themselves in several feet of nasty sludgy mud cum quicksand. Not nice. There is an inland sabkah/quicksand, Umm as Samim, which looks quite like the spots you have located and even in the Rub al Khali there is sometimes heavy rain and surface water which can pool and dry out

Umm as Samim, Oman - Water Resource - Sabkha(s) (http://itouchmap.com/?c=mu&UF=-789237&UN=-1137251&DG=SBKH)
Hope you find this more useful than the low IQ input at #2!

[Milo Minderbinder]

There appears to be a large number of dry fossil lakebeds out there, as related in this report from Saudi Aramco
Saudi Aramco World : Lakes of the Rub' al-Khali (http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/198903/lakes.of.the.rub.al-khali.htm)

However it seems that some of these can refill - presumably on rare occassions when the monsoons fall in the wrong location
See these two before-and-after satellite photos from this year
Flooding on the Arabian Peninsula : Natural Hazards (http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/view.php?id=77758)
The blurb speculates on the route of the water

And heres a March 2008 eyewitness report of a lake being found in the Saudi empty quarter Rub’ Al Khali – The Empty Quarter in Saudi Arabia « American Bedu (http://americanbedu.com/2008/03/11/rub-al-khali-the-empty-quarter/)
It doesn't say when exactly, but 2007 or early 2008 seems likely - and that Google Earth imagery is marked as being from 2007.
"I further learned that within the Rub’ al Khali (about 5-7 days into the trip) the group came across a desert lake. Yes; you read that correctly – a lake in the midst of one of the world’s largest sand deserts. It had rained three years ago and enough water still remained to qualify as a desert lake. Here is where my friend was able to view a wide variety of foliage which even included a seagull who had found its way to the water. Due to the location and composition of the ground, the water in the lake was composed more of sulphur water and emanated a sulphuric odor."

edit
the page with the two photos also links to this map of the 2012 flooding
Dartmouth Flood Observatory (http://floodobservatory.colorado.edu/Version2/050E030NSWR.html)
If I've read it correctly, those three sites are within the same general area

edit 2
interesting
if you download the KMZ file which contains the 2012 imagery and then plug in the locations of the three sites, the first two locations are within the 2012 flood area - but appear to have been much diminished, or even lost to the sand. The third location is co-located with one of the larger 2012 flood pools.

[Captain Sensible]

Bit off thread, but I suddenly had a flash of memory about the Rub Al Khali - anyone remember an ill-fated expedition, think maybe it was from Cranwell, some mates tried to cross it using freely sponsored Mini Mokes - didn't get far on account of the wheels being too small or something?

[Dan Gerous]

Thanks for the serious replies, I'll look into those links. Not bored at all. I was trying to tie up pics I took in Oman and Saudi with a general overview of the areas I had visited and got sidetracked a bit. Jeremy Kyle? I'll shoot myself before I watch that guff.

Lingo Dan, I was told that the border was marked with Burmails, and that the Saudis were always moving them to grab a bit more land. I only ever got to the Rub al Khali once whilst working in Oman, and only the Southern area near Shisr/Ubar. There was no chance of getting anywhere near the empty quarter from Khamis when I worked in Saudi.

[Bill Macgillivray]

Dan, I think that you will find that this is the "sabqah", a pretty revolting mix of sand/salt surface with even more revolting moisture underneath. However, that area near Butabul always had "lakes" of sulphurous smelling water, as I remember - they probably spread over the border! Oman/Yemen/Saudi border had, as I remember (not always accurate!) a pile of "burmails" where they all joined up near Ramlat Shuwayt. I remember a Saudi incursion up there in the '80's. Just been to Shisr (Ubar!!!) and it is being commercialised big time! Old days were best!!!:D

[fergineer]

Ah Butabul remember it well.....Stuck bleed air valve there in temperatures that heated the wing and cowls up so much it was painful getting on the wing. Fixed it and got the Herc back to Seeb but boy was it hot up there.

[Lingo Dan]

When I left Oman in '96, the border markers "burmails" had been replaced by concrete, burmail-like structures, with a more substantial one every 5 miles or so. Every now and again, the ROP seniors wanted a "border tour", quite possibly to ensure that the Saudis hadn't been nicking markers/territory.

Haven't been back since then but, from what others tell me, there is an increasing commercialisation that bears out Bill's remark that the old days were indeed best, when it came to flying/living in Oman.

When it comes to high temperatures, Fergie, Khasab takes my personal record. I have a photo of the temp' gauge in a 205 with the needle firmly pressed against the top stop at 50 degrees C.

[Dan Gerous]

Bill I left Oman in 2000, and I visited Shisr last in 1999. There was a newly built village there and some palm groves. The "water hole" was a bit of a dissapointment, after reading Atlantis of the sands. The feeling then was the palm grove was not really working out and this was affecting the water. I looked on google and it has been built up even more since I was there. One of the best thing I did in Oman was a road trip up North for one of the eids, in early 2000. We took in Wahiba, Sur, Ras al Had and a few more places. Going along the coast on a narrowish dirt track it was a brilliant trip. Now there is a highway built along most of the route we took, with a horrible flyover at Wadi Shab, that really spoils the view. Still, if I had the money, I would love to go back there and just drive around, there was loads of stuff up North I would love to visit.

[RimBim]

I was part of the convoy delivering the Rapier systems to Thumrait from MAM in 1976 and we drove past a couple of large, shallow lakes with tiny fish in them. These lakes appear after heavy rain and the fish, having lain dormant for perhaps several years, spring into their short but fecund life. On Google Earth I can see what are possibly such depressions/lakes near Dauka and further up the road towards the North at19.699/55.979 where the terrain is dated May 2005 - when I believe there had been quite a bit of rainfall. Interestingly there seems to be a long stretch of water at 19.5839/54.8834. What is the road system at 19.6255/55.504 for?
Wonderful times at the SAF aqua club - and even in the Lansab Mess from my B2!

[A2QFI]

Almost anything with a road in the middle of nowhere, in 2005, was likely to be something to do with oil. The road system you ask about is a strange shape to be sure. To the South East there is a walled compound with evidence of some sort of agricultural activity and to the South West at N19.36.50.05 E55.29 20.17 there is an oil rig, probably drilling, as there are no production facilities that I can see.