Documents to carry in a G-reg abroad?

[peterh337]

Does anyone have a definitive list?

I have one for N-reg here (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/faa-nreg/docs.html), which is supposedly correct...

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Think of all the documents that it would be really helpful for investigators if you left them on the ground before crashing and burning.

Them's the ones you've got to take with you.

Plus the interception procedures.

[UV]

What would be really helpful that the CAA hasn't got a record of anyway?

After all they issued them in the first place!

Think about it!

[Mark 1]

Do you mean Schedule 9?
Circumstances in which documents are to be carried
1 Subject to paragraph 3:
(a) on a public transport flight, Documents A, B, C, D, E, F, H and, if the flight is
international air navigation, Documents G and I must be carried;
(b) on an aerial work flight, Documents A, B, C, E, F and, if the flight is international
air navigation, Documents G and I must be carried;
(c) on a private flight which is international air navigation, Documents A, B, C, G and
I must be carried;
(d) on a flight made in accordance with the terms of a permission granted to the
operator under article 41(3), Document J must be carried.
Description of documents
2 For the purposes of this Schedule:
(a) 'Document A' means the licence in force under the Wireless Telegraphy Act
2006(a) for the aircraft radio station installed in the aircraft;
(b) 'Document B' means in the case of a non-EASA aircraft the national certificate of
airworthiness in force for the aircraft(b);
(c) 'Document C' means the licences of the members of the flight crew of the
aircraft;
(d) 'Document D' means one copy of the load sheet, if any, required by article 100
for the flight;
(e) 'Document E' means one copy of each certificate of maintenance review
required by article 25(2), if any, in force for the aircraft;
(f) 'Document F' means the technical log, if any, in which entries are required to be
made under article 27(2);
(g) 'Document G' means the certificate of registration in force for the aircraft;
(h) 'Document H' means those parts of the operations manual, if any, required by
article 83(4)(c) to be carried on the flight;
(i) 'Document I' means a copy of the notified procedures to be followed by the pilot
in command of an intercepted aircraft, and the notified visual signals for use by
intercepting and intercepted aircraft;
(j) 'Document J' means the permission, if any, granted for the aircraft under article
41(3).

Then there's the EASA requirement to have the POH for which I don't have a handy reference.

[BillieBob]

Then there's the EASA requirement to have the POH for which I don't have a handy reference.There isn't one yet - that comes with the Ops Regulation, which will also override Schedule 9, later this year.

[UV]

Impressive list Mark1... but Gertude, how many of them are not already with the CAA?

[peterh337]

It's not the CAA inspection; it is a foreign inspection one needs to get this right for.

[bookworm]

There isn't one yet - that comes with the Ops Regulation, which will also override Schedule 9, later this year.

There is currently an EASA requirement (under Part-M or similar) to carry the C of A. As you say, Part-NCO will create a common requirement (and will probably apply to domestic flights as well as international), but there's a lot of talking still to do on Part-NCO.

[BossEyed]

Interesting, isn't it, that post No2 of this thread is NOT:

"The definitive list of documents is XXX, YYYY, ZZZ, as laid out clearly in Reference AAA"?

Mark1's quote of Schedule 9 was looking good until:

Then there's the EASA requirement to have the POH for which I don't have a handy reference.

How is anybody to be certain they know the full answer for all international destinations?

But hey, no problem for a (hypothetical) prosecution. "Ignorance is no excuse".

FTOAD: I mean that no wonder these supposed rules are treated with contempt, consciously or unconsciously, by the otherwise determinedly law-abiding if it is so difficult to determine what the rules actually are. :rolleyes:

[BillieBob]

There is currently an EASA requirement (under Part-M or similar) to carry the C of A.Agreed, but that is entirely irrelevant as the question referred specifically to the POH.

It is also interesting to note that Part-NCO, as currently drafted, requires that the AFM/POH is required to be carried on every flight but the C of A is not. Now, which takes precedence, Part-M or Part-NCO?

BossEyed - If you expect anything relating to aviation in Europe to be laid out clearly, I fear you are in for a life of severe disappointment.

[hoodie]

BossEyed - If you expect anything relating to aviation in Europe to be laid out clearly, I fear you are in for a life of severe disappointment.

No expectation, rather an explanation of that disappointment. :)

Good job none of us pay (through the nose) for supposed representatives to sort this out on behalf of the we, the populace.

If we did, well now - that would be disappointing.

[bookworm]

Agreed, but that is entirely irrelevant as the question referred specifically to the POH.

It's not "irrelevant". The C of A for an EASA aircraft is not in Schedule 9 because it is an EASA requirement. I wasn't suggesting your claim was incorrect. Though AFAIR, under national legislation, the AFM sometimes forms part of the C of A where it shows limitations.

There's a thread on the POH here (http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/431444-poh-board-uk.html) that may be of interest.

It is also interesting to note that Part-NCO, as currently drafted, requires that the AFM/POH is required to be carried on every flight but the C of A is not. Now, which takes precedence, Part-M or Part-NCO?

I don't think that was intended. The original order had the C of A, not the AFM, first on the list, and I guess the exceptions didn't get changed when the list was renumbered.

[bookworm]

How is anybody to be certain they know the full answer for all international destinations?

The answer is, if you want full detail, by consulting the legislation of every country to be overflown or visited. As a shortcut, you could try the Chicago Convention which details the documents to be carried on international flights:

Article 29
Documents carried in aircraft

Every aircraft of a contracting State, engaged in international navigation, shall carry the following documents in conformity with the conditions prescribed in this Convention:

(a) Its certificate of registration;
(b) Its certificate of airworthiness;
(c) The appropriate licenses for each member of the crew;
(d) Its journey log book;
(e) If it is equipped with radio apparatus, the aircraft radio station license;
(f) If it carries passengers, a list of their names and places of embarkation and destination;
(g) If it carries cargo, a manifest and detailed declarations of the cargo.

There are further requirements in Annex 6 Part II

2.4.2.2 Aeroplanes on all flights shall be equipped with:
...
d) the following manuals, charts and information:
1) the flight manual or other documents or information concerning any operating limitations prescribed for the aeroplane by the certificating authority of the State of Registry, required for the application of Chapter 2.3;
2) current and suitable charts for the route of the proposed flight and all routes along which it is reasonable to expect that the flight may be diverted;
3) procedures, as prescribed in Annex 2, for pilots-in-command of intercepted aircraft;
4) visual signals for use by intercepting and intercepted aircraft, as contained in Annex 2; and
5) the journey log book for the aeroplane

Having said that, within Europe the provisions of Regulation (EC) No 785/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 21 April 2004 (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004R0785:EN:HTML) on insurance requirements for air carriers and aircraft operators also applies, meaning that you also need proof of insurance.

In fact, the convenience of a single set of rules for your international flight in Europe will only be achieved when the rules are standardised across its states. For rules where the UK currently has more liberal regulation than the European norm, that seems to be a painful process for UK pilots.

[dublinpilot]

What exactly is "Its journey log book;"?

Is it a log of the current journey, or a history of journeys? If a history (which I'm assuming it is) how far back should it go?

[peterh337]

That one has been kicking around for a while and AFAIK has never been settled.

On private flights there has not previously been such a requirement so most people will be starting a fresh one.

Practically, I wonder what purpose it serves, on a private aircraft. If the pilot wants to suppress a particular flight (say an equivalent of the old chestnut of travelling to the Middle East after you have travelled to Israel; something which most European countries dealt with by issuing a replacement passport ;) ) then he simply won't log it.

I keep a journey log and write in there stuff like the FAA-mandated VOR check every 30 days, plus abbreviated notes showing 50hr and Annual checks. No particular reason for doing it, and it certainly doesn't live in the plane (currently).

[bookworm]

What exactly is "Its journey log book;"?

Is it a log of the current journey, or a history of journeys? If a history (which I'm assuming it is) how far back should it go?

I think the spirit of the Chicago convention suggests it should be since the aircraft left its home country. The requirement has been transposed into Part-NCO though. The length of history required is not specified.

[peterh337]

I think the spirit of the Chicago convention suggests it should be since the aircraft left its home country.

So it may be needed only on foreign flights?

[bookworm]

Currently, yes. But the (draft) Part-NCO requirement is for all flights, unless exempted by the competent authority. Thus it would be possible for a state to exempt all domestic flights from the requirements to carry documents.