Time to command at offshore operators?

[Stuck_in_an_ATR]

Can anyone shed some light on what command upgrades look like at offshore companies/others operating heavy multicrew helicopters? Are they based on seniority, merit, or sth else? How many hours does an average co-jo need to have to have a shot at command? How much time does it take to fly these hours?

I know, of course, that it will vary greatly from operator to operator and also depend on economic climate etc. I am looking for ballpark figures, just to make comparison to the FW airline industry...

Cheers!

Stuck

[helimutt]

Well Bristow are happy to put people through a command course in about 2500 hours, and 4 years, but whether you're up to it is another thing. You have to do a load of what are called QFR's qualifying flight reports, with a training Capt etc, and they monitor your progress.

CHC have minimum hours before you're eligible for command. The OGP requirements have a lot to do with hours requirements.

Minimum of 4 years I reckon. It all depends on ability and command positions becomng available. 3000 hours. Mind you, flying Southern North Sea is different to flying out of ABz. The aircraft are smaller, you spend a lot less time in the cruise down south, more landings etc, and i'm told even the night flying is different due to the lack of light from flare stacks.
I've never flown out of Abz so only repeating what i've been told.

I would guess that 3000hrs up north is about 1/4 the number of landings of that you'd do down South in the same hours.

Most, if not nearly all of the guys I started with are now upgraded or in the process of being upgraded, and thats 4-6 years.

[Stuck_in_an_ATR]

Hi Helimutt, thanks for insight! :ok:

That's more or less similar to standards in the Airlines. For instance at the operator I work for, to be eligible for command course one needs 3500 "factorized" hours (with different kinds of experience being given different factors) and certain experience on type operated (500-1500, depending on previous experience). Of course it also depends on company requirements and there are operators where a 20-year wait is not unusual :ugh:

On a side note - at my company, Rotary Wing hours may be credited towards the required experience (with a not-so favourable factor of 0.3, but still credited). Do helicopter operators recognize FW experience at all?

[Colibri49]

The short answer is yes, but indirectly. I'm not aware of any formula or factorising used by my employer in Aberdeen which would affect time to command.

Some pilots do a little (or a lot) of fixed wing flying before undergoing a helicopter CPL course, while others get their CPLs without ever having done any fixed wing time.

As far as I know (which isn't very far) someone wanting a helicopter CPL wouldn't get a large discount from the CAA for flying hours towards licence issue.

Yet many of us came from military backgrounds, where we did hundreds or thousands of f/w hours before converting to helicopters. Those hours are fully accepted as part of our grand totals, but not necessarily deemed relevant towards command.

It seems that after having several thousand hours, command becomes a waiting game lasting years to fill "dead men's shoes" or until the employer wins a big contract necessitating recruitment and promotions.

[Camp Freddie]

southern north sea it took me 5 years but I had 4500 hours at that point, it happened because my number came up (seniority), the command course usually not a problem.

some of the older people who started early nineties took about 7 years, some who started mid noughties got it in a year if they already had more than 3000 hours when joined.

theres a lot of luck involved, the best way to get a command is for the company to be growing and need more captains

[HeliComparator]

As has been said, 4 yrs / 3000 hrs to get a command course. Probably little or no "discount" for FW time. In reality the limiting factor is the need for commanders, which depends on winning / losing contracts and to a lesser extent (now we can work to 65) retirements. In our company, provided you meet the minimum standard, it is based on seniority, not ability.

[ChasnDave]

Recently I was chatting to a MP/ME instructor, he suggested that a good route to command might be to join one of the big training providers, get a type rating on a new type, become a SFI do a few years as an SFI then return to the North Sea as a potential TRI/ Commander.

Has anybody seen this happen before for a North Sea P2 stuck in the seniority queue?:confused:

[hueyracer]

A SFI does not log any flight hours…so why should this be a "good" route?

[26500lbs]

Seniority is the main thing in most of the NS operators today, so time served is most important. Get online asap. Get in with an operator that looks like they are either growing rapidly or are already large and have a good throughflow of personnel. By that I mean are often recruiting and have people retiring every year. Something to consider for new upstarts is that they may have a very young workforce and therefore could be a very long time to upgrade.

[divster]

Interesting thread.
Whilst this route would not give hours on the aircraft, it does give instructional hours which with an SFI/TRI rating would allow a TRE cert in the future. CAP 804 covers it but I think you need 50 hours instructional experience on type rating courses before you can become a TRE. I need to check that.

By the way I heard unofficially FlightSafety down in Farnborough are looking for more instructors on the S92. Not sure about the package but apparently there are incentives for ratings etc. Anyone know any more?