View Full Version : Modular in Canada or Intergrated in Europe
19th May 2012, 23:43
First I'd like to thank all of you for your help. I am a newbie and it's been my dream to be a pilot since I was a little kid. Unfortunately I had to choose another career path to have a solid foundation, enough money and time off, so that I can live my dream to be an Airline pilot.
I am now 30 yrs old. I have enough experience in life to know that "you get for what you paid for." i have a descent jobs that pay well about $46,000/ Every 6 months after i pay tax. i work 6 motnhs on and 6 months off.
Here is my dilemma. i would rather have unbiased opinions and lets give our opinions only if we have experienced rather than basing our replies on assumptions.
In Canada I can get my ATPL Frozen for 75,000 US total. But from a lot of research I've come to realize that many pilots here have no options but the bush. There is only a handful of reputable Airlines, lets face the facts. USA is an option but there are many pilots there that have been flying for years as 1/O and only get 18,000/month wow. The regional is not a future. Perhaps for a 21 year old who's willing to stick around for 5-6 years and advance to better things.
On the other hand Oxford is the Harvard of Aviation, I would say CTC comes second, perhaps a few other ones in Europe. I see Europe and Asia the future of Aviation, for any serious Pilots who faces the facts.
Lets say all factors remain the same regarding Economy and politics. What would be the to my best Interest; Taking the Integrated course at Oxford $140,000? and if I do exceptionally well I may have the 50% chance of getting a solid 1/O position in an Airline? Or Do the Modular in CTC or Oxford and cross the river half way and not get a placement or get a chance to get my feet wet with an airline?
My other option is to stay in Canada finish my ATPL frozen, look for a job in Canada and convert my license to European? I will also be stuck like many other Canadian pilots, perhaps I will end up in the bush. :(
Or go to Greece FAS Pilot Academy in Rhodos and do my ATPL Frozen for $75,000 US/55,500 Euro.
I also have dual citizenship Greek and Canadian.
I have read the forums and i see that many pilots prefer modular. I don't get it, There must be a good reason why integrated is much more expensive. For my self, this may be my best option, because I've already sacrificed many years of my life going into a different career, in order to have the ability to produce more capital for my pilot training. But, 145,000 is a lot and if i don't get a placement I'll be kicking my self with steel toe boots. lol
lets face the facts guys, perhaps Integrated is the way. You give your best shot get high 90's do exceptionally well and when you graduate you have the chance to get in an airbus. Right?
I appreciate all your Experience, feed back and i value all your opinions.
20th May 2012, 02:33
I think you are looking at things a little too simply here. Future of aviation in Asia, oh yes definately, but in Europe, think again. Europe is actually the past of aviation, as even low cost airlines are now slowing expansion. Besides what is the point of spending 100000€ for a licence that will give you a 10% chance of being employed, and only after you have been through selections and paid an additional 30000€ for a type?
If I were you I'd get the cheapest possible licence and work my way from there. That is, if being a pilot was REALLY the only thing I wanted to do, and not just a temporary desire.
While you have those 6 months off from work , go to the U.SA., get a CPL for $40-50000, that will leave you with enough cash to convert, and even buy yourself a type (I wouldn't do it, at least not without a firm job offer) and build a few extra hours.
Anyway, bottom line is you have to pay your dues someway, somehow, whether it be funding your training from zero to hero like in EU, or building tons of hours with crappy pay like in the US (where the airlines pay for your TR). Don't be like those youngsters, expecting a RHS in an A-320 just because they paid an expensive school and sat in a class being fed irrelevant theory for 6 months. Even in EU, most people don't start their career on a jet. Wake up and smell the coffee my friend!
20th May 2012, 13:30
Thanks a lot for your feed back, I see where you're coming from. You're right we have to pay our dues somehow. I started in Nautical science (Navigating commercial Ships) There too, you need to start from the bottom and work your way up, no doubt about it. But At least you are guaranteed a job as an officer and the opportunity to be Captain withing 5-7 years.
I would love to go on the bush and learn how to land on unpaved runways, fly over Africa, or the Yukon in Canada. I just wish that there could be some sort of assurance that I will have that opportunity to be on an Airbus someday. After speaking to many pilots, I realized that most of them just get stuck as bush pilots. Then if they get lucky they get regional jobs in the USA and they end up sleeping in Hostels and really cheap accommodation for another 3-5 years. Where is the pride in that?
I'm at an age where I've already paid my dues, I just wished that I could have enough information to make the right decision regarding my aviation career, I am searching for the true answers to prepare my self.
I know it's possible, there are some routes, weather its Integrated or modular, i know there are ways to get these Airline jobs. I guess it depends on how badly I wanted.
Also I would like to add, that naturaly humans tend to rationaliazre "justify their actions for choosing the route they chose" For example someone who's done the modular route and put in his/her hours but never landed and airline job. There is a posibility where that person will justify his/her actions of taking modular, even though they may have regrets deep inside for not having enough money to do the integrated, right?
So, I don't want to discourage my self completely from the integrated route. If I find enough pilots that admit it's a way to go, i will need to question how they did it.
Also, I can only have 6 month off per year, well unless I chose to work 3months off and 3 months off. I only have 42,000 in the bank right now. So if i choose Integrated I will have to take two years and save money. which means I will have to start at age 32. Or go modular and just wreck my life, give up my officer career on the ship, give up my fat pay checks and 6 moths off vacation and go to the bush ..... Arghhhh
Thanks for your reply, really I'm very grateful to your feedback.
20th May 2012, 17:16
I will tell you again; There is NO guarantee whatsoever in this job. You seem to really be hung on the thought that Integrated will give you a job, and modular will "ruin your life". Well, maybe that would be true, IF there were jobs to start with!
Just google all pilot recruiting agencies and you will find that for one job offer in EU, there are about 10 in Asia. But those concern ONLY EXPERIENCED pilots, meaning Captains and Senior first officers, and who usually are already rated and proficient on type. You need to come back to reality. Just because you are 30 and you paid your dues as a navigator doesn't mean the red carpet will be rolled out for you as a pilot! In that case, if I were 45, and had been selling Mercedes cars all my life, I could just come and request a Captain seat on the 737 because I have experience in life.:rolleyes:
You need to understand that tens of thousands of men and women have the same aspiration that you have, but not everybody gets to the cockpit of an airliner. And some people are perfectly fine with that, whether they stay and fly bush in Caravans, carry out medical evacuation In Be-200, or even work corporate on Citations. Now you sound like you just want to be a pilot for the prestige, the money, you know BJS (Big Jet Syndrome) If you really like flying, you should be content with anything that is handed to you especially in the first years. Lots of us never even get a job!!
If I were you, I'd go 6 months to the US with those $42000, get my FAA licence; and work my up from there. Retirement for pilots is now at 65 so what's the rush anyway? Even if it takes you 10 years to work your way up to FO on a jet, by the time you are 40, you will have 25 years left to upgrade to Captain and fly even bigger jets. Trust me, there are chances you actually get bored, and decide to return to more conventional flying!
OR if you are really so impatient to fly that jet, do what those new wannabees do; After your training, you pay for your own type rating, then pay an airline to fly for them as a copilot for 500H. Should come out to about $150000 I believe, maybe more. Personnaly, even If I had the money, I wouldn't do it. Rather be paid as a King Air Captain all my life than pay an airline to work for them. But hey, it is your decision after all. I rest my case.
20th May 2012, 18:36
some terminology has changed since 1975 when I learned to fly.
first off, what is a FROZEN ATP? I have a real ATP and have been flying as a 737 captain and working for a fine airline in the USA.
Second off...to the starter of this thread, why not get a commercial license and a flight instructor certificate and teach flying for awhile? you can get flying experience and earn a little money.
as 737ng put it...there are no gurantees whatsoever in this careerrrrrrr...so give it a try and good luck
20th May 2012, 19:13
On the other hand Oxford is the Harvard of Aviation
No. No it isn't.
Harvard is known for high entry standards and academic excellence. OAA's entry bar is achievable for most. There is no analogy between flight schools and universities.
20th May 2012, 20:23
Best advice? Start off by getting a PPL somewhere local to you at the start of those 6 months off - make sure you do really want to fly! It's a shame to see people devote everything (even worse to see them devote someone else's everything...) to a dream without knowing what the reality is like. But still happens far too often in this industry, some schools are very good indeed at selling the dream.
22nd May 2012, 02:26
Thanks everyone for commenting and welcoming me in your circle. I agree with you, When I studied to become a Marine navigator at school many expected to wear the uniform and work for Royal Caribbean, when they went on their practical sea term as cadets, they realized the harsh reality,1) In cruise ships you dont have the bridge to your own, everybody is navigating with you (eg. alterations of course plotting vectors, radar controls) in other words you dont really have the CON as a third officer. 2) that the jobs are in the commercial cargo ships, you get your hands dirty and you wear coveralls during loading and unloading, but you can call the shots (you get the chance to Navigate on your own when you are on watch) and u make more money. So, most of us ended up in Cargo ships....Anyway I should stop there.
I know, reality and Dream are two different things.
I don't care if i end up flying the bush or instructing. i just want to keep a dream alive on the "being an airline pilot someday" and make enough money to give a descent lifestyle. yes, i do have a Big plane syndrome. I had it since I was a kid. :)
I don't think I would get bored as a pilot, because when I'm navigating at sea, some times we can be steering a course for hours, even days (nothing on radar, no alterations, visibility good) I don't get bored, i just keep a good watch by all available means and that keeps me busy enough.
I've also taken a few introductory flights, I loved it. i can't imagine myself not flying, I don't care how hard I have to work.
I've already forgot about Oxford, it's just too much of a risk for me.
What about doing my ATPL f In the USA, then joining CTC wing ATP program.
I read on their website that even if I did my ATPL f with another organization, i could join and there could be a possibility to join Flexicrew. How does that sound? Could this move be a strategic way of getting both sides of the fence?
Also, does anyone know if the Aviation school standards of Canada and USA are equally respected? Do airlines favor any of them? what about Greece?
I am a newbie, so I am all ears :)