View Full Version : RAAF Restructure
19th May 2012, 08:36
After some serious in-depth navel gazing I have come to the conclusion that the RAAF is all about fast jet. Anything else is second rate.
As such I propose that the RAN and ARA take over the transport and maritime roles (they must be able to handle this as they donít have fast jets)
That would reduce the RAAF size by probably 90%. The other two services expansion would not cover that amount so we immediately have a saving (SRP). Sell off Richmond and Willie, one or the other or both could be the alternate airport/s for Sydney. Another big profit for the government. Sell off Edinburgh (no need for ARDU as with only two types it could be handled at the squadron) more money in the coffers. Close/sell Pearce( we may be heading towards a surplus even with the JSF buy) move the schools (with the subsequent downsize of the RAAF side of the training as they would only need to graduate 12-15 odd pilots a year) to East Sale. Move the Willie boys up to Curtin. Glenbrook could be closed and sold ( yep we would be in a surplus, please send this to the PMT oops the PM) and the whole shebang moved to Amberley.
I donít know why this has not been done years ago.
20th May 2012, 00:02
The obsession with fast jets is due to the chronic undermanning of ACG that has been a feature for the last twenty years. As has been mentioned numerous times, this has occurred due to cultural reasons within ACG and also mass resignations to the airlines that have taken out most of the RAAFs experienced pilots.
The obsession you talk about is simply generated by a desire to fix this chronic shortage of fast jet drivers. But all the measures being looked at now are just tinkering at the margins. Things will not change until air Force lowers the bar for aspiring jet jockeys and also stops working them into the ground. Many of these highly trained pilots will never see any real action, for strategic reasons and the attitude of the GOA. Experience has shown over the last twenty years that RAAF can produce the worlds best fighter pilots but why do they have to be so exceptional? Where is the threat?
20th May 2012, 00:32
the RAN and ARA take over the transport and maritime roles
I want to see the carrier that you can land a C17 on please!:)
20th May 2012, 01:50
Where is the threat?
Who knows when an unxepected Air Show might turn up, or perhaps a short notice 'Operational Exercise?'
20th May 2012, 04:21
If the RAAF couldn't do counter-air, strike, and OAS, what's the point of anything else?
20th May 2012, 05:37
If the RAAF couldn't do counter-air, strike, and OAS, what's the point of anything else? Counter Piracy, Humanitarian Aid, Airlift in support of ISAF, Overland ISR, and much more - just check out the Current Operations webpage.
20th May 2012, 05:57
Maybe not a C17, but the good old C130 can, and has done. Google up "C130 onto USS Forrestal" on YouTube. Click on the link below. C-130 Carrier Landings November 1963 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZGy2ppViCck)
20th May 2012, 07:25
Counter Piracy, Humanitarian Aid, Airlift in support of ISAF, Overland ISR, and much more - just check out the Current Operations webpage.
All valid roles, but only in a permissive air environment. We enjoy one of these now, but may not next operation.
20th May 2012, 08:51
Although tongue in cheek given a claim that if youíre not fast jet your second best and not worthy of really being in the RAAF, particularly if your aiming for C17/C130ís etc.
Parabellum, what carrier, the RAAF ainít got one why would the ARA or RAN want to land a C17 on a carrier?:p
Surplus, yep all that good stuff but again why wouldnít /couldnít RAN/ARA do it??
I mean what is ALG there for? Basically to move the grunts around. Maritime ... isnít that something to do with lots of water and donít we have some ADF branch that operates in this environment.
20th May 2012, 11:31
Couldn't agree more, if the RAN and ARA got their fingers out, we could go home once in a while. :}
20th May 2012, 21:19
With the Maritime world's personnel (Maint & Aircrews) getting sick of constant Resolute's and the big dollar wages in the mines coming online there will only be an airshow and air lift capability in the RAAF soon.
20th May 2012, 21:51
BA, you are soooo correct but it has been stated recently that if you ain't a nuck your very second best and if your joining to be a ALG driver your the wrong type for the RAAF. By inference anyone not aspiring to be a nuck is not worth it, anyone not aspiring to be a pilot (read nuck) must be even more worthless, so all those other plebs involved in RAAF type stuff from ATC to Engineering etc are just plebs and serfs
Sounds very Imperialistic. Bring on the revolution Viva La ?????
21st May 2012, 02:00
Thanks OldFella, I was actually hoping to see some artists impressions of a really huge carrier! Mind you, I doubt the STOL capability of the C17 is all that shabby.
Finestkind - RTFP please!
"the RAN and ARA take over the transport and maritime roles " - that, to me, reads the RAN will take over transport and the ARA maritime.
Up until now I thought Australians were pretty sharp and with a good sense of humour.:rolleyes:
21st May 2012, 03:07
The ARA might make a better job of it. :E
21st May 2012, 06:01
PB , sorry maybe the irony didn't quite come thru. Given that your not worth anything in the RAAF if not a knuck than the RAN can do the transport stuff and the ARA maritime stuff (read facetious) considering its a second rate flying position.
21st May 2012, 09:31
BA, you are soooo correct but it has been stated recently that if you ain't a nuck you're very second best
You don't fail transports and move to FJ (only because you keep going on about it).
PB, sorry maybe the irony didn't quite come through. Given that you're not worth anything in the RAAF if not a knuck, then the RAN can do the transport stuff and the ARA maritime stuff (read facetious) considering it's a second rate flying position.
22nd May 2012, 11:11
Yeah but no but you do go from transport to fast jets
27th May 2012, 18:54
The RAAF was created in 1921 to provide air support for the RAN and ARA; yet a thinly-veiled smallish unified ADF was created in 1974 with 3 separate air arms! All 3 Services were subsequently technically deskilled due to Federal Government actions; but the Air Force arguably retains better capacity to manage AIR resources, as it should. Both Navy and Army struggle to maintain adequate provision of aircraft resources from what they already possess so any expansionary ambitions ought to be kept in perspective.
Worth having a read of this very brilliant strategic analysis by Stratfor; which somewhat calls into question the goals of Defence White Paper 2009 re ADF structuring: The warpath to Australian wealth | George Friedman, Stratfor | Commentary | Business Spectator (http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Australia-economy-military-strategy-iron-ore-pd20120523-UK6S5?OpenDocument). Note these concluding bits in particular: Australia is in a high-risk situation, even though superficially it appears secure. Its options are to align with the United States and accept the military burdens that entails, or to commit to Asia in general and China in particular. Until that time when an Asian power can guarantee the sea lanes against the United States Ė a time that is far in the future Ė taking the latter route would involve pyramiding risks. Add to this that the relationship would depend on the uncertain future of Asian economies Ė and all economic futures are now uncertain Ė and Australia has chosen a lower-risk approach.This approach has three components. The first is deepening economic relations with the United States to balance its economic dependencies in Asia. The second is participating in American wars in order to extract guarantees from the United States on sea lanes. The final component is creating regional forces able to handle events in Australia's near abroad, from the Solomon Islands through the Indonesian archipelago. But even here, Australian forces would depend on US cooperation to manage threats.The military priorities argued are an ability to deter interference with trade corridors and suitably structured regional capacity. But DWP2009 aims at creating a mythical futuristic Force 2030 structure, impossibly based (in my view) on a pretext of being able to defend Australia against armed attack! Add to that some hugely wasteful acquisitions and soaring operating costs of much higher technology hardware. Federal Government revenue will soon foreseeably shrink with a world economic slowing so the ADF will likely have to shed some roles over the next decade affecting all 3 Services. Just how that plays out will be interesting.
Big Pistons Forever
27th May 2012, 19:17
The fighter pukes lost their hereditary lock on the senior leadership of the Canadian Air Force in the early 2001 time frame, and the Air Force was better off it
The fighter pukes lost their hereditary lock on the senior leadership of the United States Air Force in the early 2009 time frame, and the Air Force was better off it.
I predict the same for the RAAF.........
28th May 2012, 00:06
So did the USAF their chief is a C130 pilot.
I think the last defense chief was a helicopter pilot.
At the end of the day it is all bulldust some of the finest officers and pilots in my unit were transport through and through. We even had an ex RAF Hunter pilot who saw the error of his ways after an exchange tour and moved here permanently.
At the end of the day it is a team effort that is what it is all about.
28th May 2012, 00:38
The great man Angus was on choppers. CAF - CDF for an extended period. Its already happened in the RAAF, BPE
Edit: BPE, not Col..
28th May 2012, 00:41
Who knows when an unxepected Air Show might turn up, or perhaps a short notice 'Operational Exercise?'
The great man Angus was on choppers. CAF - CDF for an extended period. Its already happened in the RAAF Col.
And a good bloke too. :ok:
...if you ain't a nuck your very second best and if your joining to be a ALG driver your the wrong type for the RAAF. By inference anyone not aspiring to be a nuck is not worth it, anyone not aspiring to be a pilot (read nuck) must be even more worthless...
So does that mean that if you want to deploy and do your job then your not the type for the RAAF? :E
Maybe if they gave the FJs to the RAN they would see operational service... Ducking for cover! :ouch: