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LHR Rain
16th May 2012, 09:06
Romour has it that Emirates will only get 4 additional A-380s for a grand total of 25 A-380s.
They are going to concentrate on the B-777 X for the expansion.
I can't believe this if it will be true. I will be stuck on the small bus with its crap flying for the next 4-5 years until I can get on the Boeing. If I can't get off the Bus and I have to go elsewhere. There is no way I can handle the flying and schedules with the lack of days off for another 4 years. I will die, no question.
Hoepfully EK will get more 380s.

fringhtok
16th May 2012, 09:16
I think even the die-hard Boeing boys admit the most optimistic delivery timing of the 777-X is late 2018. I doubt EK is going to wait that long to expand.......

Capt Groper
16th May 2012, 10:41
The A380 is necessary due incresed PAX numbers and slot restrictions at most Major Airports / Hubs.

The A380 will be the B747 replacement at most major airlines wanting to increase PAX seat availability.

glofish
16th May 2012, 10:42
Heard similar rumors.

If the price of fuel does not drop to ~80$, the days of the fuel guzzlers are numbered.
The impact on the profit showed already this year, they did not expect it to be so drastic and so fast.
The way they might go is to get every 777ER possible until the 777X gets available. This order increase might mellow Boeing to accelerate things.
The range below will be covered with the smaller 350ies.

I guess the future belongs to Twins.

The few dugongs will serve hotspots like JFK, LHR, BKK and some other Asian biggies, plus BOM/DEL.

falconeasydriver
16th May 2012, 10:52
Glo, of course the argument will be put forward, yes the 180 burns more gas but it generates more revenue, whatever the maths worked out in the shiney building I guess we will know in the fullness of time, either way the LHR flight the other night couldn't catch us:E

White Knight
16th May 2012, 10:53
Romour has it that Emirates will only get 4 additional A-380s

From what I've heard, EK's getting 4 more - UNTIL the wing fix is sorted out! And then delivery continues.
I think the price of oil will drop quite a bit further - it is already coming down quite significantly and even the likes of OPEC consider it as far too high.

The impact on the profit showed already this year

Price of fuel did make an impact - but the 777 burns a fair old chunk too, and without 14 First and 76 Business pax on board either:rolleyes:
And remember glofish - the company still made a MASSIVE profit!

glofish
16th May 2012, 12:06
yes the 180 burns more gas but it generates more revenue

exactly the Airbus slogan, but is it true? Why the new rumors now? Maybe because it is not entirely so. More F and C seat do not necessarily generate that much more profit, looking at the prevailing occupation by upgrade.

whatever the maths worked out in the shiney building I guess we will know in the fullness of time

once again, that's most probably where the rumors originate! For one thing I trust management to be able to use EXCEL. I however do not trust them to admit to strategic mistakes. So time will tell.
I already said that if fuel tends lower, no big reversal will be seen. If it stays high, brace for this rumor.

In this region it's all about greed, therefore I somewhat trust the rumor. But just as much about saving face, so any reversal to the big mouthed annunciations will be served under smoke screens and with all kinds of detractions and excuses.

But the writing on the wall gets sharper every day.

Avid Aviator
16th May 2012, 12:31
I think some argy-bargey between EK and Airbus over A380 rectification, EK stalling acceptances (i.e. final payment) until some increase in the effort to fix the wings. Might be an excuse to reduce the overall order too, if Boeing can pick up the slack with a few extra 777s.

I think the permanent casualty might be the A350, which looks unlikely to be delivered much before the 777-8X and -9X. Why wait just as long for an untried product?

nolimitholdem
16th May 2012, 14:03
There will be an announcement soon from the company. No more 380 pieces of Shiite until Airbus sorts out their issues. The earliest THAT is expected to happen is 2015.

In the meantime, the B747-8 is being looked at again, hard.

You heard it here first.

I guess there will be a whole bunch more "EX380 Drivers"?!?

As far as the company "still making a massive profit" even with the gas-guzzlers, it could just as well been in spite of them as because of them. I'd bet on the former. Pretty sure the productivity of the staff has more to do with the profit than the productivity of machines that spent most of their time in a hangar.

Alconguin Crusader
16th May 2012, 15:12
As a 777 pilot I don't see what is wrong with the Big Bus. Rumor is Ek got them cheaper than an ER and has been pointed out there is about 42 (?) more premium seats and loads more sterage seats.
Yes they were delayed and Red Carded for cracks but EK got compensated for that very handsomely by the EADS.
I believe it is still too early to turn your back or the company's back on the airplane. What does the B747-8 give you that the Bus doesn't?

falconeasydriver
16th May 2012, 16:08
Alconguin, yeah I agree with you, all d1ck measuring aside it would be premature to write the beast off yet.
As for What does the B747-8 give you that the Bus doesn't? Id venture to speculate, cargo capacity? but then if the 77X is all that is promised then why would you take an airframe that is ostensibly 40 years old over something thats a heck of a lot newer and almost as capable?

Payscale
16th May 2012, 16:38
Trim tank problems?

akerosid
16th May 2012, 17:48
Quote:
Heard the same thing today, only 32 A380s will be taken, 777 order to be increased, 350s cancelled and 747-8 definitely on the cards.

While it wouldn't surprise me if they cut back the A380 order (90 seems like a mad amount) and I know EK is very keen on the 777X, this does seem rather like a Boeing person's dream: no Airbuses at all (apart from the existing 380s) in this scenario?

Politically, this would be very dangerous, given that there are strident calls in some quarters for access to EU markets to be controlled or curtailed; EK certainly wouldn't want to give the EU regulators any excuse to do this.

I don't see the 748 happening either, for EK; the 777-9X will be longer than the current 77W, so it will offer pretty much the 748's capacity without having to move to a new type.

SMT Member
16th May 2012, 22:20
Airbus announced today (check flightglobal if you wish) they've submitted a permanent wing-rib fix to the authorities for approval, and expect to begin installing by 2013 for aircraft deliveries from 2014 onwards. They also said it's going to cost them another 200M USD, but that they expect break-even on the A380 line as of 2015.

The proposed 777X hasn't been defined yet, at present it's just a wet dream and a powerpoint presentation from the sales people, testing the waters as it is. It will, at the very earliest, become available for airline service as of 2018, probably more like 19. That's if Boeing decides to do it within the next 6 months, rather than endlessly dither about like they did with the 737. I personally think Boeing are waiting to see what Airbus will do with the A350-1000 and then decide if they need the X to compete.

As for EK and the 747-8: When pigs fly. If one quad is supposedly too expensive to run because, well, it has 4 engines sucking fuel, how come one that burns just about the same, but carries less of everything except 2 lower-deck PMCs, is a better idea?

White Knight
17th May 2012, 02:21
Then you mention that EK still made a massive profit yet you are the first to stand up in support of policies that are detrimental to this company?

And just where am I standing up supporting these policies? You've got a screw loose sunshine:rolleyes:

Whight Knight, you really are a dumbass. You honestly believe that oil prices will drop quite a bit further? What is the basis for your argument? No one knows what the price of oil will be in a year but magically you have deduced from your infantile dreams of grandeur that you know what will happen. Um, er, um, errr err.


Probably the same way that you magically deduced that we should all buy gold and silver sittingidly because the prices of those will rise. It's called reading the financial press. Maybe you would argue that everything's fine in the Eurozone right now:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The 777 is obviously the most economical aircraft at EK, yet you pretend otherwise?

No I'm not pretending otherwise - just pointing out that 90 premium pax is potentially huge revenue! And I think you'll find that the 343 is the most ECONOMICAL aircraft in the fleet...

You are a bitter little man SI. Pity the poor sod that has to sit with you for hours and listen to your rantings:ugh::{:rolleyes:

ironbutt57
17th May 2012, 02:52
Hopefully the 380 works out better than the 340 5/6 series....343 economical?? Why did the triple put it out of business then..

White Knight
17th May 2012, 03:49
343 economical??

At 7 tonnes per hour, low fuel burn for long sectors! But to be honest I've no idea what the Seattle twin burns:}

Edited to add that the 343s at EK were very cheap - hence the economical tag combined with the fuel burn:ok:

7one7
17th May 2012, 04:38
I've heard that already planned 330 courses have been changed to 777. Is it really so?
Might have something to do with this issue.

springbok449
17th May 2012, 04:52
No 380 delivered to EK since February, 5 EK tailed A/C parked in TLS, no A/C factory fitted with "new" wings to be delivered until 2014, even the most enthusiastic 380 admirer would have to admit that things are not looking great...

A350 most defenitely on the back burner...

three eighty
17th May 2012, 06:01
When are we getting our iPads? My friend who plays golf with a guy, who knows a guy' who breakfasted at Starbucks with a hostie' who knows the wife of a manager type (with reserved parking) in the training department and he said we are getting them so it must be true!

White Knight
17th May 2012, 06:51
A lot of hoo-har and speculation chaps! And ladies.

Let's face it, building large metal objects to hurl through the air is quite an engineering undertaking. After all, it took many years for the 737 fleet to show the fatigue issue in that design - the open top Aloha, and a few years of service for the A300 before folks realised the rudder wasn't designed for tramping on from left to right and back again in a hurry.
More recently the Dreamliner has had extensive delays! The 747-8 doesn't meet fuel burn calculations; so much so that Cargolux refused the first delivery for a period of time. It's AVIATION folks...

As long as we get a pay-cheque every month - that's what counts heh?

BigGeordie
17th May 2012, 08:36
White Knight, there is a bit more to it than the paycheck at the end of the month (although that is important as well).

Those of us stuck on the minibus and being killed slowly by the grinding fatigue of the rosters are probably more concerned about lifestyle than money at the moment. Similarly, those on the same fleet who have had command courses delayed indefinitely (while their colleagues who joined on the Boeing have been Captains for months already) would like to know what is going on.

The silence from the company is predictable but no less unwelcome for that.

GoreTex
17th May 2012, 08:54
didnt they stop 330 to 380 and do right to left?

fatbus
17th May 2012, 09:26
Everyone thinks the 777 is the more economical than the 380 but no one has talked about lease rates and operating costs or the fact that Dubai Inc owns a big part of EADS, you might find the 380 is more economical bases on unit cost compared to the almighty 777. Hence the reason they are getting 90. 777 is a great A/C and boeing knows it so they are not going cheap.

emratty
17th May 2012, 09:31
Everything is up in the air right now (except the 380!!) but what is for certain is that yesterday's plan has changed. No where near the numbers of pilots required this year, expect very few 330 to 380 slots and upgrade courses cancelled.
The company will announce a change of plan shortly but until the 380 delay is made official we will hear nothing.

ironbutt57
17th May 2012, 12:31
@BigGeordie...funny one's perception of "minibus"....:}

thegypsy
17th May 2012, 15:33
sittingidly

Your thoughts on investing in Gold please.

three eighty
18th May 2012, 05:37
….and the moon landings

fliion
18th May 2012, 09:27
Sitty's contribution to pprune....

9/11 a CIA conspiracy

Currencies dead...we all would use precious metals for trade (didnt he say he would run down SZR if gold was lower this year....ha!)

America to blame for every problem in the world.

General hurling of insults with anyone who disagrees with him....

...wait insults incoming,

And now authoritative waxing poetically on Airbus...

Yawn....again.

f.

Payscale
20th May 2012, 14:31
Listen. I and most people dont give a flying fxxx about your personal opinions. Right or wrong. This is not a show about you.

Does anyone have good info on the latest plans for the A380. Thats what this thread is actually about.

halas
20th May 2012, 16:38
:D:D:D

halas

Alconguin Crusader
20th May 2012, 17:50
Filion is so smart he couldn't even get hired at a Major in the states. But he knows everything, just ask him.

On to the topic, word is A-330-300s are coming instead of the A-380s until a permanent fix rears its ugly head. Maybe early 2014.

ironbutt57
21st May 2012, 03:55
Wonder if Airbus will send the currently undelivered "weak-wing" 380's back through the factory for a refit, or deliver them as is....seems another airline here in the Gulf has also declined delivery until the permanent fix is incorporated into the assembly line process...makes sense to me...but seeing as they haven't even actually fabricated the new and improved rib-foot yet..might be a while...

fatbus
21st May 2012, 04:45
I think it going to catch on that most airlines are going to refuse them until the permanent fix is done.

ironbutt57
21st May 2012, 04:50
@Fatbus..yah I suspect you're probably right...:ok:

springbok449
21st May 2012, 06:52
Airbus has finally officially announced that the 380 will indeed only be delivered with the "factory fitted" fixed wings in 2014...

Announced in latest Flight International...

Dropp the Pilot
21st May 2012, 07:40
If it is "2013" in Airbus-years, what is that in the real world?

Bypass ratio
21st May 2012, 07:54
Not too long to go Ex380. You'll be in the LHS of the 'super' in about 4 years....

White Knight
21st May 2012, 08:00
If it is "2013" in Airbus-years, what is that in the real world?

Probably remarkably similar to Boeing years:}:}:}

Remember that Dreamliner thingy:E

White Knight
21st May 2012, 08:03
Airbus has finally officially announced that the 380 will indeed only be delivered with the "factory fitted" fixed wings in 2014...

I imagine so - for those that haven't had any wings fitted yet of course! But I imagine there are several already on the production line with fitted wings that need the fix, hence after the six or seven week fix-time will be up for delivery!!

springbok449
21st May 2012, 08:35
It may not necessarily be the case WK, apparently Airbus expect customers to take delivery of the non modified 380's and then have them fixed in their own (airline time) as per the maintenance directive until 2014 when the "new" wings will be fitted.
It seems that this is one of the major issues between Airbus and customers at the moment...

nolimitholdem
21st May 2012, 10:20
Nah. If you were junior enough to get bumped back to the baby bus, there'll never be enough A380's on the property for you to get a LHS on it. Especially if these envious Boeing pilots you imagine, that are senior to you, want on it! lol Good news though, I've yet to meet a single Boeing pilot with even a hint of interest in moving over, so that's working for you at least. :ok: Could be a little competitive though with only a couple dozen taken when the sand finally settles on the crack fiasco.

Another shrewd move: taking the "Ex-380" name, seeing as it could be a much-desired nickname in the next few years.

Dreams are free! (Too bad wings aren't.)

etops777
21st May 2012, 12:51
Time will tell if the bubbles will burst on ex a380 driver. With the problems on the a380 and most of the major Asian airlines are not even placing any orders, even if they did it's a lingering few. My guess is that 380 will ended up like the MD11 with less than 300 in the skies. Twins are here to stay..777, A350, 787..:ok:

Wizofoz
21st May 2012, 14:31
380,

How long has the Aircraft been in service?

What is the order backlog now as opposed to then?

etops777
21st May 2012, 15:19
The backlog remained pretty much the same as it did back then. SQ has sent a RFP from Boeing and Airbus and we shall see of SQ orders more 380:}

380, get over it...size doesn't matter in flying..:ugh:

Wizofoz
22nd May 2012, 02:24
And that's kinda the point, 380- the orders haven't grown, except for the EK top-up, since day one, and there doesn't seem to be any prospect of it doing so.

The 747-8 is approaching those numbers, while the back-log for the 777 and 787 is 380 and 820 respectivley.

Face it- it is never going to make a red cent for Airbus, indeed I've heard the A350 program is in trouble due to the money going to the A380.

I like traveling up-front of the thing, and I'm sure flying it is a nice gig- but as a manufacturing program it's been a big white elephant.

etops777
22nd May 2012, 06:52
380 driver

It may not worth anything to you because of your ignorance. You can't accept the fact that some of us here criticize the quality of your 380. Grow up dude...we all have our different opinions and that's LIFE. :=

GoreTex
22nd May 2012, 07:09
etops777
before EK I flew 737,757,767,777 in EK 330,340,380, so I think I have a little insight in both, the 380 is the nicest piece I ever flew, my personal opinion.

When I flew the 737 I thought it was the best plane ever because it was my first one, I think many of our 777 drivers never flew anything big before EK and are brainwashed as I was when I was 25 years old.

White Knight
22nd May 2012, 08:06
You can't accept the fact that some of us here criticize the quality of your 380

I assume you're talking 'manufacturing' quality. But let's face it, all types have ADs issued regarding something from the original design...

As for 'comfort' type of quality. Well, I'd rather be a passenger in an EK 777 than the 343 or 332. BUT, the 380 is far better quality. Very quiet, big suites up the front (top) and a decent bar:cool::ok: Far surpasses anything else I've ever travelled on.

Rather Be Skiing
22nd May 2012, 08:16
etops777
before EK I flew 737,757,767,777 in EK 330,340,380, so I think I have a little insight in both, the 380 is the nicest piece I ever flew, my personal opinion.

When I flew the 737 I thought it was the best plane ever because it was my first one, I think many of our 777 drivers never flew anything big before EK and are brainwashed as I was when I was 25 years old.

Of course we are all brainwashed by our current type. I don 't think whether it is 'nice' to fly is the question being debated.

Dropp the Pilot
22nd May 2012, 08:31
It's as if a particularly annoying toddler just left the room.

Try it, you'll like it and you will be able to hear yourself think whilst conversing with the adults.

etops777
22nd May 2012, 09:42
etops777
before EK I flew 737,757,767,777 in EK 330,340,380, so I think I have a little insight in both, the 380 is the nicest piece I ever flew, my personal opinion.

When I flew the 737 I thought it was the best plane ever because it was my first one, I think many of our 777 drivers never flew anything big before EK and are brainwashed as I was when I was 25 years old.

For your info, before EK I flew B747-400 as well as A320. Both are great airplanes to fly..

The thread is not about how does each type of ac fly but the quality of the plane and its orders.

etops777
22nd May 2012, 09:45
Dropp the pilot

What a great function. :ok:

MagicCarpet
22nd May 2012, 12:14
Tip of the hat to whichever one of you jokers tacked the “Save The Dugongs” newspaper article up on the bulletin board in the employee service center.

Need I remind you, it’s not good form to slap the mother and tell her the baby is ugly.

Be nice.

ironbutt57
22nd May 2012, 13:22
They do look like dugongs..:}

givemewings
22nd May 2012, 16:17
They might be a bit fugly, but they are still aerodynamic. Dugongs just have a big fat everything. The 380 has a big forehead, just like a beluga :}

Beluga Whales, Beluga Whale Pictures, Beluga Whale Facts - National Geographic (http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/beluga-whale/)

Iver
23rd May 2012, 03:15
I guess it is a matter of personal preference and your own experience, but from an external aesthetic point of view, none of the airplanes discussed (including the 777 and A380) can hold a candle to this:

Photos: Boeing 787-881 Dreamliner Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/All-Nippon-Airways/Boeing-787-881-Dreamliner/2107573/L/%26sid=f42988058c00c2e78655cbbb70cba6fd)

Now that is a beutiful airplane. I hear it flies nice too. Looks like the boys at Qatar and the other big, nameless UAE carrier will find out soon enough... :ok::cool::}

ironbutt57
23rd May 2012, 04:44
That makes all 380 drivers "crack pilots":}

Dune
25th May 2012, 02:05
A380 cracks fixes to start early next year | ATWOnline (http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engines-components/news/a380-cracks-fixes-start-early-next-year-0524?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AtwDailyNews+%28ATW+Daily+News%29&Issue=ATW-04_20120525_ATW-04_283&NL=ATW-04&YM_RID=dmalone%40emirates.net.ae&YM_MID=1314742)


A380 cracks fixes to start early next year

By Karen Walker and Kurt Hofmann | May 25, 2012

Modifications to repair wing rib cracks on in-service Airbus A380s will begin in the first quarter of 2013 and the composite material at the root of the problem will no longer be used on new-production aircraft delivered from 2014.

The cracks issue, discovered early this year, resulted from a carbon fiber-aluminum material known as 7449 that was used in A380 wing rib feet construction. The material was selected because it is both lightweight and strong, but it is now known that it becomes brittle during the production tempering process. Although the problem did not show up on computer modeling during the A380’s design and development or on demonstrator aircraft, it is now known that the material is affected by natural up and down wing movements during flight and also by extreme temperature variances.

The European Aviation Safety Agency issued an airworthiness directive, extended to all in-service A380s, ordering mandatory inspections of the wing ribs (ATW Daily News, Feb. 9).

EADS CEO Louis Gallois has said the fix for the 71 A380s in service will cost €105 million ($138 million) and will be borne by Airbus.

Briefing reporters in Toulouse, France on Wednesday, Airbus EVP-programs Tom Williams said a demonstrator aircraft with the modifications would begin flying from around the third quarter this year and parts for the retrofits would be available to airlines from early 2013. Williams said the repairs could be done in one of two ways—either as a single, nose-to-tail program or in a series of repairs fitted into routine C check maintenance schedules. “We are still working out how long the aircraft will need to be grounded,” he said.

Lufthansa German Airlines CEO Carsten Spohr told ATW last week that he expected repairs to put each aircraft on the ground for four weeks. “Next year, one of our A380s will always be on the ground. We are in talks with Airbus about compensation for the non-production of our aircraft when they are not flying," Spohr said.

The A380s delivered from early 2014 will have a new all-aluminum rib design.

Williams admitted that Airbus was “pretty concerned” when the cracking problem was first discovered but was now confident it understood the issue and had the solution. “It was very disappointing and embarrassing in front of our customers, who have been extremely supportive in terms of the inspection process,” he said.

LHR Rain
25th May 2012, 06:44
What does this mean for EK? It is all well and good that there is a fix but is Emirates still going to take all 90 plus aircraft.
I have to get off the mini bus and fast. As I said earlier I can't do this much longer. Just got June's roster and 8 days off with 4 midnight turnarounds to the 3rd world as a top bidder. One layover and most night flights. What is there to look forward to?
Anyone considering joining EK on the Airbus should really think twice. You will not last long on this fleet.

fatbus
25th May 2012, 07:15
Was at ETC last week. What ever people say the 380 is here to stay and at last 90.Courses planned in July and on wards.Just sit tight! I think the big problem is the 340 is short and cant give up anyone and the 380 needs pilots in hugh numbers when they do start coming again and they are slow to hire enough to cover off the fleets properly.

The Turtle
25th May 2012, 07:30
Airbus To Retrofit Wings On 120 A380s (http://www.aviationnow.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/awx_05_24_2012_p0-461578.xml&p=1)

By Robert Wall [email protected]
Source AWIN
May 24 , 2012

Airbus will have to retrofit 120 A380s to resolve a problem with wing component cracking before a permanent fix will be implemented on new-build aircraft.
The aircraft maker has already delivered 74 A380s, but the total number in need of retrofit will grow to 120 aircraft because of work already in the production system, says Tom Williams, Airbus’s executive VP-programs.
Airbus has developed two fixes it says will permanently deal with the cracking of some rib-feet, which has already resulted in an airworthiness directive requiring enhanced inspection intervals and fixes where component cracking is found. One solution addresses the retrofit fix while the other alters the production process so the problem never occurs. The fixes should restore the aircraft to 19,000 flight cycles and regular inspection intervals, Williams says.
Airbus expects the cost of resolving the situation to top €260 million ($327 million).
There are several causes for the problem. One was the use of a specific aluminum alloy and its heat treatment; the alloy delivered weight savings, but the component was more brittle, causing cracking. Another problem occurred in attaching the wing skin to the ribs, where excessive loads were placed on components during assembly.
The problem was compounded by a failure to properly account for the temperature-induced material expansion and contraction during operations.
The European Aviation Safety Agency still has to approve the repairs, which Airbus will need to validate inflight trials using an instrumented Airbus A380 test aircraft, which Williams expects to be flying in the fall.
To avoid future problems, Airbus has decided to make changes beyond those immediately needed. For instance, Rib 48 and Rib 49 at the outer end of the wing will be replaced even though they have not shown cracking because they are made of the same alloy that has caused problems. The ribs will be replaced with ones made of a more traditional alloy.
Airbus is now deliberating how it will implement the retrofit and is in discussions with its airline customers. Options include parking the aircraft several weeks to fully install the fix, or a phased enhancement during several C-checks. The repair comes with a relatively modest 90 kg weight penalty.
Some airlines also may defer taking delivery of the aircraft until the permanent solution is installed.
In the retrofit, all 23 hybrid ribs will be replaced with all-metallic ribs, and the rib feet will be strengthened. An inspection hole in the area where the cracking takes place also will be strengthened.
The permanent fix, which replaces all the composite ribs with metal ones, should be available in early 2013; the change should not affect the aircraft’s weight.
Airbus also has adapted its A380 design process to improve its finite element modeling techniques to catch such problems earlier, and is applying more stringent measures to the development program for its A350 widebody. In most cases, the materials are different, but where the aluminum alloy involved in the A380s has been used it has been replaced with aluminum lithium.
Meanwhile, Airbus is gradually seeing improvements in dispatch reliability of the A380 to 97.6%, and as high as 98.6% in March. “It is going in the right direction,” says Airbus Chief Operating Officer for Customers John Leahy, although he acknowledges this reliability rate still trails that of the company’s other aircraft products.
Leahy also hopes to book 30 A380 orders this year, but says that is “a stretch.”
The aircraft maker next year expects to deliver the first A380 to Emirates Airline with 575 metric tons maximum takeoff weight (MTOW), which boosts the aircraft’s range to 8,500 nm.
Also becoming available is a 490-metric-ton maximum takeoff weight version, which complies with more stringent noise requirements and should allow airlines like Emirates to operate early-hour flights at slot-constrained airports, such as London Heathrow.
Emirates already has signed up to take a 510-metric-ton MTOW A380, to be used in regional routes with about 650 seats.

flareflyer
25th May 2012, 09:22
Rumors are that 4 aircraft are sitting in Toluse and Emirates has no intention to accept them until when they will be fixed. In addition to that it seem that for this year no more 380s will arrive........

I don not believe it but it would be nice to hear from our management what is the real situation..........

Flare

Kernow 101
25th May 2012, 09:36
Fatbus- I agree with you. Ek always has gone from famine to feast and back to famine again. They are always out of phase with demand. Once the 380s start arriving they will have a hard time keeping up with demand.


Well me and my friends in the 'Pool' are here ready and waiting to help you out:E Now give us a call!!

Easy Ryder
25th May 2012, 09:59
Lhr rain,

Are you in LHS or RHS? I'm second top bid rostered 48 hrs, 4 layovers, 2 turns & every flight departs after 0830 from DXB.

I would suggest as an FO on 'mini' bus fleet life is relatively sweet (considering a probable transfer to the a380 before command upgrade).

glofish
25th May 2012, 14:35
The aircraft maker next year expects to deliver the first A380 to Emirates Airline with 575 metric tons maximum takeoff weight (MTOW), which boosts the aircraft’s range to 8,500 nm.

Big boost from 569 to 575 ….. gives less than ½ hour flight!

Also becoming available is a 490-metric-ton maximum takeoff weight version, which complies with more stringent noise requirements and should allow airlines like Emirates to operate early-hour flights at slot-constrained airports, such as London Heathrow.

How? A full actual 380 out of LHR to DXB does not weigh more than 466 tons.

Emirates already has signed up to take a 510-metric-ton MTOW A380, to be used in regional routes with about 650 seats.

Again: What for? With a ZFW of 366, what regional route could require 144 tons of fuel?

The only way to make the dugong less fuel guzzling is to reduce it’s DOW.
We are waiting for such an announcement. Actually, unfortunately, they’re busy adding aluminium ……

Craggenmore
25th May 2012, 19:04
I'm second top bid rostered 48 hrs, 4 layovers, 2 turns & every flight departs after 0830 from DXB.

I'm with you Easy Ryder except I have 5 night stops :ok:

glofish
26th May 2012, 05:37
anyhoo- bit of a waste of time talking facts to you. Enjoy the the lightie you are on, and relax.

OK fattie, then please direct me to any manufacturers website/facts about the increase in ZFW.
This is not meant satirically, I am really curious.

Dropp the Pilot
26th May 2012, 06:16
An empty 380 weighs 130 tons more than an empty 777 300ER.

The useful load of a 300ER is 60 tons.

Before 1 kg of revenue-producing load is placed on a 380 it is already carrying the load which 2 300ERs could carry but carries that load as dead weight.

For it's 130 ton dead-weight penalty the A380 carries 5 tons more load than a 300ER.

Very, very few people people have ordered the A380.

Discuss.

EK380
26th May 2012, 06:33
Yes drop the pilot!
And the MTOW is 200 tons more than the 773-ER!
And it can take-off at MTOW at +40C...

fatbus
26th May 2012, 07:14
Who cares? Get over it. We just sit in the pointy end and go from A to B. Why not just try to enjoy the job you do.

glofish
26th May 2012, 07:30
Thanks for the clarification, fatty. Interesting.

I have therefore amended or confirmed my earlier contribution:

Also becoming available is a 490-metric-ton maximum takeoff weight version, which complies with more stringent noise requirements and should allow airlines like Emirates to operate early-hour flights at slot-constrained airports, such as London Heathrow.

How? A full actual 380 out of LHR to DXB does not weigh more than 466 tons.
(same as original contr.)

Emirates already has signed up to take a 510-metric-ton MTOW A380, to be used in regional routes with about 650 seats.

Again: What for? With a ZFW of 373 (iso 366), what regional route could require 137 (iso 144) tons of fuel?

The only way to make the dugong less fuel guzzling is to reduce it’s DOW.
(same as original contr.)

Fatbus you are right, but it's so much fun to rub the truth into the stubbornly blind:}

donpizmeov
26th May 2012, 08:00
Glofish,

The 510t version at EK now does not have a crew rest fitted so carries 27 more seats in Y class. Its ZFW is also increased to 373t so can carry a bit over 73t of revenue. It does UK, BKK, HKG, ICN, etc. It does not need to be heavier than 510t as to use weight above this would require a crew rest. The one in the article quoting 650 seats is the two class version, which is not in the fleet yet.

The 569t version has a max ZFW of 369t so carries 69t of revenue, and can carry that to JFK and SYD in both directions.

I find it hard to believe that a EK Boeing pilot would be confused about differing MTOWs and ZFWs for the same airframe. Isn't it the same with the classic 772s?

The Don

glofish
26th May 2012, 08:49
Don

I do get the different versions, I was not entirely familiar with them, now I'm enlightened, thanks.

But that was not the issue of my contribution.

The lengthy article made believe that there is a big improvement to the dugongs performance. When you look behind the the smokes and mirrors, you realize that it will be able to fly a whooping 190nm further!
Then it supposedly flies quieter with a reduced MTOW, although it never exceeded that specific weight anyway in LHR and has no improved engine or aerodynamic package. An effectless feature!

Bring on some news when it really and sincerely shows an improvement, because only then we can relax and enjoy the forthcoming deliveries without rightfully fearing of it burning the remaining profit.

It's funny that off the company record every station enjoying the dugong admits it only generates a profit when full, and that is not the case! JFK would prefer two to three T7s, if they could choose, they'd make more money.
But I guess these guys are all incompetent and brainwashed. The real truth is right here on pp with 380fatty.

GoreTex
26th May 2012, 09:07
seriously glo,
why dont you tell the guys in the financial department to do their job, I am sure they are desperate for your advise.

I do it like fatty, fly from A to B and enjoy the ride in a comfy seat with a nice table, loved the 777 but that was 98.

glofish
26th May 2012, 11:07
Why do you revert to the defamation sarcasm? Running out of arguments?

If it runs down to our bonus everyone tells the finance morons to do their job, don't we?

I am simply pointing out the things that do not run as smoothly as anticipated. The dugong certainly does not perform as expected.

If we now have cheerleaders who constantly embellish the situation, that does not help. It's not even fighting the symptoms, notwithstanding fighting the origin of the problem, namely the 380 being too heavy and the performance not as AB promised.

EK and their (cheer)leaders will not admit to and are politically bound to go for all of the 90. Logically enough their propaganda machine tries to cover up the blunder. I do not blame them for that, we're all too used to that, aren't we. Just remember the cost neutral changes of our t&c ..

This is a rumor network where everyone can freely put their considerations. That's what I'm doing by putting a counterweight to the eternal cheering the dugong.
I would certainly like to see it in the air, albeit never want to fly it, but at the same time I like the company to post profits and, even more, I like my profit share!

So if I am criticizing the overburn of the dugong, try to provide some information or arguments of how EK, AB or the pilots are going fight the problem, but spare me with trivial contributions like GT and A380baby.:ugh:

donpizmeov
26th May 2012, 12:25
Good points Glofish, can you please let us know the details of the 380 under-performance? I am sure when you state these facts all will have to agree.

Sittingidly, When you talk about about crap procedures are you referring the EK 777 VNAV approach? It must be up to amendment 999 by now.

The Don

White Knight
26th May 2012, 12:42
Try spending your time in a briefing room with some clown lamenting the fact he doesn't have enough time to properly brief a ULR

Must be a 777 thing then as I seem to remember the ULR briefings on the 345 only took a few minutes:D:D:D



If that:E:E



Boeing continues to over-achieve

That'll be the 747-8 then will it? And the on-time deliveries of the PlasticFantastic:rolleyes::rolleyes: I can't imagine what a mediocre level of acheivement you subscribe to Sittingidly:hmm:


One Brit Captain actually emailed the company

Got an issues with the Brits by any chance? I suppose it makes a change from you slagging the Yanks off though... Seriously though - why the dislike? Did we perchance over-run and rule your country for many years?:ok::ok:

BYMONEK
26th May 2012, 13:40
sittingidly

On another forum, I actually gave you credit for a reasonable post. Shame you go and spoil it all again with your massive chip you have against the British. You really need to get over it before it becomes an issue one day on the flightdeck. Care to divulge your ethnic group?

Anyway, what's wrong with asking for more time. Are you the type that rushes through the briefing just to brief the cabin crew at STD -83 because that's what it says so on a crappy piece of paper. I thought report time was officially STD-60 minutes yet the Company 'require' us to undertake this briefing before then. So, are we on duty or not? AS must be laughing all the way to his fat bonuses. BA gave their crew 1.15 before STD with 1.25 for long haul. Whats wrong with that? It reflects the extra work required for the longer flights. I wonder how much support you'd get missing something important but argue that the cabin crew briefing was spot on! You're an idiot man.

glofish
26th May 2012, 14:35
don

always a pleasure discussing with someone who does not drift into drivel ....

... can you please let us know the details of the 380 under-performance? I am sure when you state these facts all will have to agree ....

Now, not having access to what exactly AB promised EK, I can't know if such numbers were correct, I admit.

However, AB never tires to pretend that the 380 uses the smallest amount of fuel. So I must presume that this is what was promised.

Now reading the flight plans of our JFK and LHR flights, where the dugong competes with the T7 on a daily base, I have to find a day where that is true.
Whether it is in consumption vs. kg, or vs. passenger, the dugong uses more fuel.
When it comes to yield (which would not cover the above presumption, but we'll take it as this covers the profit and you know I like profit!!) I have to rely on what the station managers say (off the record naturally), that is the 380 only generates profits if almost full and with full fare premium passengers.
I guess we all agree that this is not happening at the moment.

To me at least, that is 'under-performance' to what was expected.

Cheers

donpizmeov
26th May 2012, 15:10
Glofish,
At least you are honest. But as you don't know what the promised specs were, you can't really argue its under performing.

Your argument re yeild of 380 vs 777 is also flawed. What amount of available zero fuel weight is required to be filled for the 777 to make a profit? Is this hampered when it needs to be restricted to carry extra fuel on longer sectors? You and I do not have the facts required to work this one out. But Timbo did state that EK was losing $US20mil per month due to the Boeing taking 380 sectors while the wing gets sorted. So maybe the fleet planning department have the mix right.

You can argue that the whole wing debacle is being extremely poorly handled by Airbus. And on this one you would be right.

The Don

glofish
26th May 2012, 17:03
Almost agree on the last two contributions.

apart from:

The second question, on the economics will be answered by Emirates themselves.

It will also be greatly answered by AB with their penalty payments and therefore distorted as to the down to earth economics.
No one of us will know exactly how much they will have to shove over.

My two cents for the future are on a maximum of about 40 units, and that would be a clear verdict.

But I agree, and have stipulated that very early on on other threads, time will tell.

Gulf News
26th May 2012, 18:57
If you guys want so hear what you sound like just listen to the rather nauseating:yuk: puerile dialogue on ICE at the moment called " The Three Captains"

Chief Pilot A380 vs Chief Pilot Boeing having a conversation worthy of a Punch and Judy show with TCAS in the middle nervously not trying to take sides and piss of the locals as usual.

When I first heard it I was dead-heading in uniform. I seriously considered asking the FG1s for a pair of F class pajamas to wear to leave the aircraft without anyone thinking I was in any way associate with EK flight crew. Just in case anyone on board had listened to it too and thought it representative of what EK as a whole.

Embarrassing for any professional however the willy waving and juvenile sniping demonstrated in this thread shows that some of our crew take their lead from those above.

Sad

givemewings
26th May 2012, 19:14
Apologies for butting in here, but question- TC has more than once responded to the question about 2-class A380 in EK saying that they have no plans and have not asked AB for it... is that article quoting him directly, or are they just speculating?

I recall back a couple years they were saying it was not viable to have 2 variants in the fleet and they weren't needed... is it because of the imminent re-shuffle of flying between 'fleets' on the CC side that they're now considering it, or just another rumour?

When you say 'regional' I'm assuming we're talking Asia/subcontinent where perhaps the F loads aren't that high and it's not needed... however I can't see much use for a 2 class going to the likes of JED... it's always crammed... unless of course they use a 2 class and replace the T7 or the 330 flights intra-gulf during peak periods. Can't see them needing more than a few 2 class though if that's the plan.... unless of course they know something we don't about India...?

three eighty
27th May 2012, 06:50
When it comes to yield (which would not cover the above presumption, but we'll take it as this covers the profit and you know I like profit!!) I have to rely on what the station managers say (off the record naturally), that is the 380 only generates profits if almost full and with full fare premium passengers.

Aah yes the station managers with their degrees in economics, yield management and possibly marketing.
These would be the same station managers that sing Airbus praises and bemoan the Boeing crews to us when we are there and 3 hours later sing Boeing praises and bemoan the Airbus crew when you guys are there.

Look up the word gullibility, and while your at it, on your next flight, ask your most junior Grade 2 which aircraft she thinks is better. I've got a pretty good idea what her answer will be. I know what her answer will be when I ask here the same question on my flight.

MagicCarpet
29th May 2012, 16:10
Seeing some posts on the EK 2nd Daily to LAX thread about 380 training cranking up again in the near future so I wanted to address it here.

Put simply, lay off the hallucinogenic mushrooms.

The wing crack problem is real. Emirates has really cancelled 380 pilot classes 2 or 3 times already in the past few months. Emirates really is spending loads of money training 380 cabin crew on the 777. Sound like it’s turning around to you?

Airbus themselves have already estimated a 2013 or 2014 timeframe. EK Airbus cheerleaders will shout about the big 380 training boom that will happen then.

Wrong.

By 2014 the European economy will be in full recession. Obama will be sitting there across the pond staring at the NO LIGHTOFF master caution for the 6th year in a row wondering why the US economy won’t recover. China will probably be OK but that will keep training going at places like China Southern, not Emirates.

Face it ladies. The Airbus side of EK is screwed for a long time to come. Lots of tedious all-night turnarounds to India, Muscat, Dammam, etc for many years to come on the Airbus side of the house. 777 still doing great. Remember all you wannabees out there. . . if you take the airbus. . . you’ll be s-o-r-r-r-r-r-r-y ! !

givemewings
29th May 2012, 16:41
You forget that not everyone wants to do layovers and long trips. For some, turnarounds mean time at home with the family. It's all in your perspective.

I do find it amusing though when people describe certain aspects of EK in this forum as 'slave labour'. Look around- while the schedule may be tough pilots and CC are most certainly not slave labour, those guys are the ones doing the real tough work in Dubai...

HamFan, that is true re: cruise comment. I guess they are just seeing the writing on the wall like everyone else and changing ops to suit....

MagicCarpet
29th May 2012, 17:11
You forget that not everyone wants to do layovers and long trips. For some, turnarounds mean time at home with the family. It's all in your perspective.

Agreed. I’ll grant you that.

But why not hold out for the 777 and just bid turnarounds? That way you have the option to do long-haul international flying and see the world if you decide later that you want to.

Many of us when asked in the interview why we wanted to come to Emirates answered that we want to be long haul pilots, yet still we were offered the airbus. Now we’re stuck with a handful of crap layovers in Africa, some bad timings to a few so-so European layovers, and tons & tons of turnarounds in the middle of the night. Now the wing cracks have our only viable reprieve on hold indefinitely.

From my chair, anyone joining this company should just flat out refuse the airbus and hold out for a 777 slot. EK needs the pilots so I think they’ll offer them the T7 instead.

LHR Rain
29th May 2012, 17:33
Totally agree with MC. Do not come to EK on the mini Bus. It will kill you. A slow death but it will still kill you.
Just because you are flying Low Cost in europe it really isnt any better in the sand. Demand the B777. You will be sorry if you accept the Bus

givemewings
29th May 2012, 23:00
Yes, that's great for those who have the option to choose and 'hold out' for a 777 job... some do not. So, the choice is theirs and it's great that (some of) the posters here are trying to give a more accurate picture than the glossy PR would have you believe.

I just really don't get the hostility that comes when people get talking about fleets- some have had no choice but to take the job they are offered even if it might not be what they hoped for- they've made the best out of what they've been given and suddenly the label 'management stooge' starts doing the rounds. Believe it or nto some people are actually happy with their lot in life because it doesn't do your health any favours to dwell otherwise... instead of bagging their choice why can't we recognise that for some it might have been a very hard decision and quite disappointing if they wanted something else...?

/Thread creep over

For those predicting 'dooooooooooom!' to the 380 I think the company will do whatever they can to make it work, what exactly that is of course remains to be seen... though I agree with the comment on the other thread, the Beluga is hardly 'dead'....

Swan Man
30th May 2012, 04:09
What about your health and favors flying so many hours on the back side of the clock? How is that going to work out for your long term health? Plus with living in the sand we are not going to make age 65.

Swan Man
30th May 2012, 05:23
And Emirates is worse than the industry average. Just look at the EK pilots.

Oceanic
30th May 2012, 07:40
A380 training courses back on, next one starting July.:ok:

Craggenmore
30th May 2012, 07:52
Oceanic - confirmed :ok:

you got the email yet..?

Spent 6 hours in the company of a 20 year+ colleague from the engineering department last week and it's not all bad :}

Easy Ryder
30th May 2012, 08:03
Yup got the email this morning :ok:

Lets see if it gets canceled for a third time now.....:ouch:

SANDBLASTER
30th May 2012, 11:39
Dear Magic Carpet,

As I am obviously not thinking clearly, could you explain why pilots have been getting e mails today for 380 courses starting in July? Even if they get cancelled again, as of today the manpower department think there is a requirement for more pilots on the A380. They must base that on something?

The point I was making on the LAX thread was that if no more deliveries were coming and 11 380's were going back to Airbus, why would we be training more pilots. We're not exactly undercrewed!

With regard to the 380 cabin crew being retrained, rather than costing the company thousands, I suspect it will save them money in the long run in reduced recruitment. All the crew being retrained have flown the T7 before. They will just have a refresher course. They have been advised that their primary role will still be operating the 380. The worry from their side of course is that they will be cover to operate the night turns and not any ULR flights.

givemewings
30th May 2012, 23:57
Oh, pass me the popcorn!!! :D

You seriously fell for that?!

Whatever you guys like to think, it can't be denied that a majority (sure, not all) of pax are very disappointed when told their plane was switched out from 380 to777. Arguing here aside, the pax do and will continue to love the A380 on the long flights. I've had comments to the effect that if EK get rid of the J class bar they are never flying with EK again (can't blame them really, must be awful to go back to 'normal' J class ;))

junglie-driver
1st Jun 2012, 11:50
Any news about how many courses are planned for July?

a747jb
1st Jun 2012, 13:12
None if you are a 340 qualified f.o. No joke, I can confirm this as I am affected :ugh: Funny, my entire roster is 330 flying this month. As our friends on the ramp would say "What to do" At least courses are, as of today, running in July. Its a step in the right direction. By the way, in the mine is better than yours discussion, WHO CARES!!! I would rather fly (passenger) on either the 777 or 380 compared the 330/340. Let EK decided how much money each makes for them!

InnocentBystander
1st Jun 2012, 22:11
But EK, after all the four high-level 777 Capts failed the A380 transition send them back to fly their John Deere. In any other airline that would have been it.

In any other airline they would've asked what's wrong with the training department. Just going from an Airbus to a Boeing or Boeing to Airbus (Or Fokker, or MD or DC or whatever) is daily business all over the world and having people fail their training is source for concern for the trainers, NOT the trainees.

Luckily MM is trying to improve things and is already making great progress.

nolimitholdem
3rd Jun 2012, 20:47
Sorry outoflimit but I hate to tell you all A380 courses are back on track beginning from July. At least the Capt. courses from A340-A380. There will also be some direct upgradings for F/Os on the A380 by the end of this year.

Excellent! That massive fleet of what, a couple dozen aircraft should be fully crewed then! It'll probably be even better when they figure out how to make a wing.

;)

Get back to me when you can legitimately paint "1000th A380" on the fuselage and until then, console yourself with "it's quieter and has more comfortable seats", than a 20 year old design that kicks it's ass day in day out.

:E

Craggenmore
4th Jun 2012, 14:11
You shouldn't be worried about the cracks that you can see..... it's the ones that you can't see............

donpizmeov
8th Jun 2012, 16:56
The LA station managers bother in law has been heard to say, that he heard the EK SVVP catering say that the 380 delivers start again in July. 11 more by years end.
More 380s than 330s by Oct. Who would have thought?

The Don

White Knight
9th Jun 2012, 20:28
Not slagging the A380 but rather pointing out that the 777 has exceeded and continues to exceed all expectations. To compare the 777 to the A380 at this stage and pretend that reality is the reverse, is inexplicable to a rational human-being.



You are NOT a rational human-being:}:}:}

evilatp
10th Jun 2012, 17:28
From Flightglobal (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/a380-wing-cracks-to-require-eight-week-repair-downtime-372813/):

Airbus A380 operators face a 30,000 man-hour repair programme to address wing-crack issues that have dogged the airliner which will require an eight-week downtime if implemented in one instalment.

The European airframer confirms that if airlines choose to undertake the repair "nose-to-tail" it will require around eight weeks to implement. However Airbus says that it expects most operators would opt to adopt the phased approach spread out over three two-year heavy checks which is less disruptive. In this case, it expects the repair would extend each two-to-three week heavy check by "a few days".

Emirates, which is the biggest A380 operator with 21 in service, is undertaking the repair to each aircraft in one instalment. It says the work will require 30,000 man-hours to implement. The Emirates fleet will be repaired in Airbus facilities or by other organisations on Airbus's behalf because the Dubai carrier does not have the capacity to undertake the work in house.

A380s featuring the new wing design incorporating more twist and a lighter structure will need to be modified slightly earlier as the wing-crack issue has "a slightly greater effect" on these wings. This revised wing design is due to be introduced on A380s being delivered next year.

The retrofit modification will be subject to an airworthiness directive from the European Aviation Safety Agency, which Airbus expects to be issued this summer. It will be available for retrofit in the first quarter of next year.

A modification for new-build aircraft will become available for incorporation on the wing production line at the end of this year. There is an approximately 10-month lead-time on the wing, meaning that this will apply to A380s delivered from early 2014.

Airbus says that it expects that most A380 operators receiving new A380s in 2013 will opt to have their wings repaired during final assembly, resulting in a four-to-six week delay. However some airlines with a more urgent need for their aircraft will decide to have the work carried out retrospectively, it adds.

flareflyer
12th Jun 2012, 07:34
Trainers received infos regarding transitions on the 380 thanks to MM updates......
Why normal line pilot dont grt some infos as well????

fatbus
12th Jun 2012, 07:46
I think you will find more to follow. This is just the start. Cant wait to see the fighting on the 777.

Rather Be Skiing
12th Jun 2012, 08:42
I think you will find more to follow. This is just the start. Cant wait to see the fighting on the 777.

What fighting are you expecting? Why will it make you happy?

donpizmeov
12th Jun 2012, 11:14
Seems the response of 777 trainers trying to get to the 380 is higher than thought. Anyone know what the final number of transfers will be?

the Don

three eighty
13th Jun 2012, 09:17
A380 grounding cost US$30m a month - Emirates exec - Transport - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/a380-grounding-cost-us-30m-month-emirates-exec-461954.html)

bvcu
13th Jun 2012, 09:59
Surely if they're such gas guzzlers money should have been saved by flying them less and the Boeings more.........!!!!!

givemewings
13th Jun 2012, 11:32
I'd love to know why on the one hand they are training existing crew on 777 yet offering unpaid leave on the other? Doesn't make sense, or am I missing something? :confused:

Kernow 101
13th Jun 2012, 11:47
I'd love to know why on the one hand they are training existing crew on 777 yet offering unpaid leave on the other? Doesn't make sense, or am I missing something?


They are offering unpaid leave?............are you now overcrewed???

givemewings
13th Jun 2012, 12:58
Sorry should have mentioned cabin crew. Are we overcrewed? I'm trying to work that one out! You'd think so with the 380 downtime but then they seemed so desperate to use those crew on 777 (I guess to reduce working hours for the rest) but- they are asking people to take unpaid leave. So- what gives

Trader
13th Jun 2012, 13:07
Guessing that since they can't train ALL the 380 cc at the same time they want volunteers for unpaid leave NOW with a slot for 777 training later on.

givemewings
13th Jun 2012, 13:15
That would make sense if it weren't being offered to crew already on 777. Why train 380 crew if you don't need the ones you already have?

donpizmeov
13th Jun 2012, 13:48
Wings,

Deliveries start again Jul/Aug. 7 new 380s by end of Oct. So they need to keep training for that due to training lead time.

the Don

givemewings
13th Jun 2012, 13:51
Right, thanks. They haven't been telling us about deliveries. You'd think that would mean they'd want to keep us off the 777 for a bit then,... oh well such is life!

Kernow 101
13th Jun 2012, 18:30
Deliveries for Sept & October (http://gulfnews.com/business/retail/we-will-be-the-most-potent-hub-in-the-world-by-2015-emirates-airline-president-tim-clark-says-1.1035052)

etops777
14th Jun 2012, 06:17
Sorry to say that airbus products is a POS! Flown both...I don't care how big it is..it is a lousy design by far..

afcwxm
14th Jun 2012, 07:23
Why can't the company be honest!!.. we hear about so many things from here or the newspaper but no one has the balls to tell the employees!!!

(only on the crew portal KG on his holiday!!!)

eg.. unpiad leave to cabin crew
eg.. SFS operating as Pur due to no courses ...etc...

they want honesty but they don't give so much back....loss of face me thinks!!!

etops777
14th Jun 2012, 09:42
380 driver..

I don't care about your comment either and nobody cares about yours too:)

donpizmeov
14th Jun 2012, 09:43
LHR rain have you got a course date yet?

vfenext
14th Jun 2012, 10:28
etops777 = NOB

etops777
14th Jun 2012, 10:34
Ex 380

Nop....I've never flown a 380 but talking to friends that has flown the 380 and the 777, all prefer the design logic of the Boeing. Plus info are readily available on various web sites to include the airbus and Boeing....Any typical person can evaluate the difference of the design philosophy.

Btw, if the A380 is as good as what the airbus claimed then why airbus are not getting any orders from CX, JL, ANA, SQ(more order), KE(more), plus many other carriers in the world....

I think the numbers will speak for itself.:ok:

The Turtle
14th Jun 2012, 15:10
By Jens Flottau
Source: Aviation Daily (http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/avd_06_13_2012_p03-01-467082.xml&p=2#)
A380 Wing Repair Costs Escalate For Emirates (http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/avd_06_13_2012_p03-01-467082.xml&p=2)


June 13, 2012
Emirates Airline says it is facing massive costs and huge operational disruptions as it resolves problems with wing rib feet cracking on its Airbus A380 fleet, and is preparing for negotiations with the European airframer about compensation.
Airline President Tim Clark, talking to Aviation Week on the sidelines of the International Air Transport Association annual general assembly in Beijing, says Airbus Chief Operating Officer-Customers “John Leahy has said there is no compensation, but we take a different view,” adding, “They [Airbus] have a legal obligation to fix the aircraft at their expense.”
However, he concedes that the purchase contracts do not include clauses for this scenario, noting, “In all fairness, nobody would ever have contemplated anything like this.”
The financial impact on the airline is significant and continues to grow, with Clark estimating that the A380 wing problems have a $30 million monthly impact on the carrier’s bottom line.
Emirates external auditors claim the actual effect is closer to $50 million per month.
Emirates is the largest A380 operator with 21 aircraft in service. It will take delivery of another 23 by early 2014, but these aircraft still have the old wing design.
Airbus has developed a short-term repair program for the in-service fleet, and has designed a longer-term fix for the first 120 aircraft to be delivered by early 2014 that will include modified wing rib feet, among other modifications, to avoid the Type 1 and Type 2 cracks of the original wing design.
The retrofit replaces all of the 23 hybrid ribs, which are made of a mix of 7449 aluminum and a composite material, with all-metallic ribs made of 7010 alloy. The rib feet also will be redesigned to strengthen them, and an inspection manhole in the area where the cracking occurs will be reinforced.
Clark says Emirates discovered 700 Type 1 cracks in the two wings of one aircraft. The more serious Type 2 cracks are much less common.
The airline has had six A380s on the ground at a time, almost one-third of the fleet, since the problems emerged to make checks and preliminary repairs. The last two aircraft were grounded for repairs this week and are not due to return to revenue service until the end of July.
Clark says that while Airbus claims the quick repairs could be done within 10 days, Emirates’ experience is different: its aircraft have been grounded for an average 35 days, and some of them required 42 days.
Moreover, some of the aircraft that have been repaired likely will have to undergo the process again after completing 500 additional cycles. “We know there will be new [Type 1] cracks after 500 cycles because we have seen them well before 500 [cycles] on our aircraft,” Clark says. Operationally that means the airline will have to take aircraft out of service again after a period of only a few months.
Airbus and Emirates have meanwhile mapped out a plan for the permanent retrofit that will return its A380s to the original life cycle expectation. The program will start in the third week of January 2013 and end in November 2014.
The carrier will have four A380s taken out of service at any given time.

Payscale
14th Jun 2012, 16:22
Dont think too many people have flown both the B777 and A380 yet. A handfull perhaps...

Germanflyer
14th Jun 2012, 16:58
More that you might have guessed!
A lot more...

givemewings
14th Jun 2012, 17:46
Then isn't it just opinion, doesn't make it fact... same as the old Holden vs Ford... everyone has their preference but doesn't mean one is necessarily better or worse design than the other- each has good and bad points.

Going by the logic that the 380 hasn't sold huge numbers (not sure what you call 100+ in the first 4 years, considering it is a bit of a 'niche' aircraft) then by the same view the Concorde is also a 'POS aircraft' (which we all know was actually a pretty innovative design- aside from fuel tanks of course) or because not every guy on the street has a Ferrari they must also be crap...?

Generally speaking, If I ask a Boeing pilot, Airbus is crap. If I ask an Airbus pilot, Boeing is crap. If I ask someone who likes flying, anything is good and fun isn't that what most of us got into aviation for, coz it sure beats flying a desk :ok:

nolimitholdem
14th Jun 2012, 19:13
The financial impact on the airline is significant and continues to grow, with Clark estimating that the A380 wing problems have a $30 million monthly impact on the carrier’s bottom line.
Emirates external auditors claim the actual effect is closer to $50 million per month.

"But, BUT, BUT"...I sputter..."but TIM! You said the A380 was the way of the future! A whole 'nother level! Say it isn't SO!"

Who knew you actually meant "whole another level of risk and financial liability"?

Wow, only costing the bottom line 50,000,000 dollars a month! What a stunning success! In a year, by my rough math, that means the Uglybus will have cost the company...ummm...pretty much exactly as much as all of last year's profit! Geezuz. Better hope that profit share target is set a little lower for next year...

C'mon. Even the most ardent, panting A380 apologist (here's lookin' at you, EX-380 Driver-guy) can't pretend those numbers spell success.

donpizmeov
14th Jun 2012, 21:07
Very good point nolimit. You may be right. Or it could be that the Boeing that has been flying the 380 sectors just can't carry enough and is costing the company a sh@tload. Who knows.

The wing thing is bad in a new design. Having aircraft on the ground for that long for temporary repairs, knowing that it all has to be done again for the real fix is frustrating when an airline is trying to grow. On the face of it I can't see how airbus is not culpable for compensation. There must be a lot more to this than meets the eye. But we will never know the truth.

But in the mean time, the 380 will keep arriving, the 330s will keep being retired, and the Indian night turn arounds will continue to operate. Just as they have always done.

There is nothing to see here...move on.

The Don

r0v3r
14th Jun 2012, 21:48
There are actually a lot more people who had flown both the triple seven and the three-eighty than one would think.

SMT Member
14th Jun 2012, 22:03
Me thinks someone here are completely missing the point when it comes to the 30 (or 50 mill). It doesn't so much show what the A380 costs when they're a bit broke for a while, rather the earning potential they have when they've been fixed and will be flying for the next decades. This wing cracking is but a blip in the overall scheme of things, and it seems that A380 is, or will be when it's fixed, a mega-buck earner for the airline.

scandistralian
15th Jun 2012, 02:33
The whole Boeing v Airbus spat is pointless;

1) demand is down + fuel is up + yields down = 777 is now the money maker

eventually when;

2) demand is up + fuel stabilizes + yields improve (particularly premium yields) = 380 is the bread winner

All this talk of John Deere/Whale etc. is a joke, we all get paid the same, and I couldn't give a :mad: what I fly (unless it's the 330, because those guys deserve an accolade for their contribution)

:ok: Scandi

glofish
15th Jun 2012, 04:08
third possibility:

3) demand is down + fuel price collapses + yield continues to be subsidized by Airbus due to fuel over burn = you can even dig out the A345

There's a scenario for every flying obstacle.

I truly guess that TC is happy enough with the wing cracks because now Airbus covers the economic slump and low loads by grounding the dugongs but paying for it! First it was the penalty for consumption, now it is the penalty for the mis-design. Just wait and listen to Timmy when such subsidies will stop....

Someone pretended:

rather the earning potential they have when they've been fixed

Given. But this sounds to me like the RTA barking that Dubai will be a traffic heaven when all the interchanges will be complete.

I guess no one would sign a blank check on that the wing fiasco will remain the only one.
Weight shedding and rushing to delivery only started to show its toll.

Why do Taxi companies buy Camrys that no individual wants?
On the glossy handouts all Audis, BMWs and Mercs look way more comfy and performant. When it comes down to economics (you know, the ones that hit the bank account, not the ones boasted in the pub), companies prefer the work horse that actually starts when the button is pushed and that gives the expected mileage and run-miles for the dollar.

The design, specs and the profile of the A380 look fine but need to be objectively proven.

At the moment at least our only yardstick is the profit share, and that's the one who slumped dramatically since the dugong arrived.

That is essentially why I don't like it.

atpcliff
15th Jun 2012, 04:19
I was schd to fly the EK -380 from Incheon-DXB and FRA-DXB, but both flights had substitute aircraft. The FRA flight was worse, because it was a -330. I was in business class with no power outlet in my seat, I guess because it is their shorter-range aircraft.

Even in the US some aircraft have power outlets in Economy seating.

I had heard that the -380 was very nice, even in coach, so I was disappointed about not getting to fly on it yet.

cliff
CVG

ruserious
15th Jun 2012, 06:32
Dont think too many people have flown both the B777 and A380 yet. A handfull perhaps...

Well I have flown both and I prefer the 380, not that it matters. Seriously they are just airplanes, who gives a rats which one you prefer, fly the one you like and be happy.

As for all this discussion about what the 380 is costing again who cares, if TC et al did not think there is commercial sense in having it and continuing to consider new orders, then he would not be doing so. He is simply playing high stakes poker with Airbus to get the best commercial leverage he can, nothing new there.

So as pilots, choose your weapon of choice, fly it and be happy, stop thinking you know even a little of what go's on behind the scenes in the commercial side of things. We don't.

glofish
15th Jun 2012, 11:11
Ex

you bite any bait, don't you !!

Well, certainly we had some dugongs since 4 years. The 12 weeks came from two seasons ago -- and how few did hang around then? How many now?

But give and take we have to live with them now. If you go back some months, I stated that it will be all right as long as the fuel price remains below 100$.
So actually we can manage and even fly them with a profit I guess, as long as they really fly though.

Certainly the T7 uses a lot of fuel, but again, I guess no real insider would contest that it does that as the most economical aircraft on long haul today.

I stick to my prediction that the dugong will be fine as long as Airbus pays fuel compensation and the barrel stays below 100$.
The whinging of the purple palace will start immediately the moment this changes.

In the mean time we will just not achieve the imposed benefit and I admit it is a little unfair to blame the dugong for it, but leave me that little bait to get all the ex380ies started! :}

givemewings
15th Jun 2012, 13:00
Low loads??

Would love to know where you're seeing low loads because every flight I've done lately has been chockas. Same with trying to get on anything with a staff ticket standby, almost no chance...

Or are you talking about something else....

(That goes for 380 and 777)

VijayMallya
17th Jun 2012, 13:21
Most people/friends/pilots

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2yzpzuFNf1qcb5fko1_1280.pnghttp://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2yzpzuFNf1qcb5fko2_1280.png

And 380 vs 777 :bored:

nolimitholdem
19th Jun 2012, 13:35
I realize we live in times when huge sums of money, usually referring to bailouts, debts, and the like can make one a bit numb to the sheer number of zeroes on the figures being tossed about...but...

...even so, referring to something causing losses of (take your pick) 30 or 50 million dollars a month as "a blip", has gotta be one of the more amusing understatements in awhile. Sort of up there with calling a defect that grounds them for a month at a time "a bit broke". Spin, baby, spin.

Heck, 50 million here, 50 million there, before you know it, we're talking some REAL money...:ugh:

Gimme a break. About the only statement I've read I agree with, is that Clark is playing high-stakes poker all right. And only a fool thinks that poker players can only win (even when they are playing with as stacked a deck as EK's got).

Sorry A380-Dude, buddy. (Can I call you buddy? Since you call me mate.) Where exactly am I wrong? The facts on the costs and the grounding times are from the article quoting Dear Leader, not my opinion. I think all of the night turns to HYD are starting to do your head in...:ok:

vfenext
19th Jun 2012, 15:08
Jeez nolimit, 2 post on two threads in a row that are just full of misinformation. I'd say you were losing your touch but you never had one.

170to5
20th Jun 2012, 12:20
Moving on from the 'ours is better than yours' argument, which I don't quite get - an aeroplane's an aeroplane to me and the commercial aspect of it I leave entirely up to someone else - I'll fly what they tell me to fly - does anyone have any idea on the latest in-house rumours about 380 deliveries/command upgrades etc, for those of us who are waiting patiently in the queue?

ruserious
20th Jun 2012, 18:03
6, 380 deliveries by October according to fairly good sources, beyond that expect another 5 by end of financial year

fatbus
21st Jun 2012, 06:20
3 in sep 3 in oct all back on sched by years end, 4 330 and 6 343 gone as well and a steady retiring of the 330/340 after that.

170to5
21st Jun 2012, 08:58
Thanks very much guys, info is greatly received...will be interested to see the effect of retirements vs effects of deliveries on 'bus courses for new joiners...

desertcamel
21st Jun 2012, 17:15
I just read the online gulf news, as per Sheikh S. Al maktoum, Emirates to receive 4 A380s soon. And looking for about $1B to finance it.

Dc

desertcamel
22nd Jun 2012, 07:17
Starting 6th of July, 1 out of 3 flights to gatwick will be serve by EK A380.
Source : Gulf news

Easy Ryder
22nd Jun 2012, 07:44
No it's a one off anniversary flight for 25yrs service (or something similar) into LGW apparently.

A regular 380 service will probably start next July when both 380 piers are completed at the North terminal.

desertcamel
22nd Jun 2012, 09:57
ER, you could be right...GN did not mention about a one off flight, but yes EK is celebrating its 25th yr.,since they started flying to Gatwick 6th July1987.

DC

Wizofoz
23rd Jun 2012, 03:59
Err...how is that even slightly relevent, Sandhound?

The 747-400 is a contemporary of the A300-600.

How much are THEY selling for?

Wizofoz
23rd Jun 2012, 08:03
Sand,

Yes I read the article, and I can't see that anywhere- in fact quite the opposite.

Can you quote the bit that has anything bad to say about the 747-8?

glofish
23rd Jun 2012, 08:34
Be careful what you wish for ....

If fuel-cost is the argument, then you can throw the 380 into the same bin as the other four-legged/four-engined dinosaurs.

Was there a comparison to the T7's fuel figures in the article? No, and for good reason because there is no way any of the dinos can get the better ratio on any route.

And please don't come up with that 'comfort' or 'prestige' bs. In this article there was reference only to fuel burn vs. passenger number.

So if you want to boast the 380 you can do it comparing with a 60 year old design, but if you take a more recent Boeing chunk, you took the wrong intersection. :}

Wizofoz
23rd Jun 2012, 12:19
Sand,

In an all ecconomy layout, as per Air Austral, the 777-300er can carry 600 pax.

Fuel per pax does indeed come out in the A380s favour, by a whopping 1%.

IF you fill it!

fatbus
23rd Jun 2012, 12:23
Wiz , why did EK order 90 - 380 if the 777 is so much better ? By the sounds of you must know.

Easy Ryder
23rd Jun 2012, 12:25
Geezus guys who cares, do something better with your Saturday night. ;)

Wizofoz
23rd Jun 2012, 12:58
fatty,

Err- but didn't they ALSO order 165 777s?

Have a look and you'll see I haven't championed one over the other. I HAVE corrected when people have said things I thought inaccurate.

Fact is, both aircraft have their place and both can produce good profits on the right route.

jack schidt
23rd Jun 2012, 14:42
Well that's great news and the taxi pattern will be easy to work out if it cant get under the bridge!

Had to love this simple maths equation.... and the 380 is not in its high density config.

Malaysian Airline System, which received its first A380 last month, will consume 1,181 barrels of fuel flying the 494-seat aircraft to London from Kuala Lumpur, according to Maybank Kim Eng Securities analyst Wong Chew Hann.

The carrier's 359-seat 747-400s use about 999 barrels of fuel on the same route, he said. Fuel accounts for about a third of airlines' costs, according to the International Air Transport Association.

Craggenmore
23rd Jun 2012, 17:55
After completion of the LGW bridge, BA especially flew in a LHR based 747 for the sole purpose of being the first operator to "taxi in"under the bridge.........in order to beat Virgin to it.

Sound familiar?

Good 'ol play-ground tactics :ok:

(we used to burn-up under the bridge at the end of each sim - good fun)

alwayzinit
23rd Jun 2012, 18:08
For Pete's sake girls!

This playground mentality is frankly worrying, when you consider that you are supposed to be responsible for Xxx people's lives, xxx million$ worth of Jet + other things like company prestige etc.

Bottom line, we NEED all our aircraft to F###ing fly full and our "Adult" Commanders to carry the right amount of fuel..........for each sector and as the Commander, YOU, not dispatch are responsible for the uplifted fuel.

Now Bloody well GROW UP. Jeez.:ugh::ugh:

Hat, coat, door.

CaptainProp
23rd Jun 2012, 22:39
Haha!! :ok:

HamFan
29th Jun 2012, 12:08
Gloryhound...

...a double decker with .....500to 800 seats with a Bar and real showers, flying quietly like a whisper..............I just operate their toys. And it’s more fun to operate the nicest toys then an old ridiculous 777........with an iMac. ................At least on the Super we have all the fun and glory

I hope it's not you boring us with all the fatigue ASRs because you can't sleep in the CRC thanks to the whisper-quiet ride.

Yep, the way Dugong drivers write (limp-wristed, ever-so-slightly euro sounding) they'd just have to be mac lovers as well! :rolleyes:

Not sure why you get so excited in a gaelic way about bars and showers you never get to use, Gloryhound. In fact, it's hard to see why the French would install showers at all in a jet when they have no use for them in the home! :D

Glory, hey?? I guess you also pin down the sides of your hat like a U-Boat commander... I'd wager most of us do it for the cash but feel free to enjoy your showers, late economy meals and "glorious" air-turnbacks! :rolleyes:

vfenext
29th Jun 2012, 13:42
Jeez HamFan your anti 380 posts are telling a very disturbing personal story. Get help before its too late, it's only an airplane FFS.

GoreTex
29th Jun 2012, 13:49
never had an economy meal on the 380, if you are nice to the crew they feed you first class, if you are a tosser like ham then you wont get anything

Seja
30th Jun 2012, 08:07
Kid1: my toy is the best toy
Kid2: but my toy is bigger
Kid3: it's ugly
Kid1: My toy is cooler than both yours together
Kid2: You are so dumb of course MY toy is better
Kid3: no YOU are an idiot MY toy is better
Kid2: Maaaaammmmmmaaaaa Kid3 called me an idiot :{
Kid3: He called me dumb fiiiiiirst :{
Kid2: My toy is the coolest tell them mommy, tell theeeeem :{
... To be continued.

:confused:

Mama: instead of fighting over whose toy is the best (they are all pretty good, don't you think? They fly hundreds of people around the world safely thanks to YOU) you should be proud that you all have one. How many other kids wish to play with a toy like yours? Their biggest dream all their life is to have a toy and if they had one, they wouldn't waste their time bashing other kids about their slightly different toy. :D

Shame on you guys, you behave worse than all the kids that fly with us in the back of your toy. Every thread that has EK or 380 in the title ends up being a battle about which toy is better :yuk: and most of the time it is not even a simple discussion it ends up being a nasty fight. I came to this threads because I am interested in aviation and pilots points of view, news, discussions etc. but all I found was this (in the middle eastern forum, the others have a bit of a higher standard and actually discuss topics).

Now keep going, I am back at the cabin crew forum (you know, where people are actually nice with each other, against their reputation yes). Over and out.

HamFan
30th Jun 2012, 14:07
Surly Aussie SFS: Oy! Give this gristly mutton meal to FO Goretex, awroight?

Brand new Japanese GR2: But this economy foo. Him say he wah furs crass. Hee heee..!

SFS: That's why I served it on this noice plite, geddit?

GR2: Ah, sooo... Me unnerstan now. Hee hee..


Two hours later...

[HONK, HONK!]

[Clunk]

GR2: Hee yaw foo, Gawtek. Hope you rike. Hee hee!

FO Goretex: Oh, rah-ther! Jolly good show, old girl! Well done, cracking service, wot? Rah, rah... hockeysticks, etc, etc...

GR2: Me go now, come back rater..

[Slam]

FO Goretex (to comatose, decrepit, drooling dugong skipper): Yasss, never had anything but first class, old boy... mmmmm... *munch munch* Yasss, I say, cracking steak this, wot? Wagyu beef, no doubt... that's a Brazilian thing, don't you know... Some of us appreciate the finer things!






Yeah whatever 'Tex... :rolleyes:

The African Dude
1st Jul 2012, 00:28
Ham, what on earth?

cerbus
1st Jul 2012, 09:22
Funny stuff Ham but there are not Ausie SFSs anymore. They come but usually only stay a year or so then go back to greenier pastures in OZ. Onlyl the 3rd world are left but His Higness said "No more Asians." Stay tuned to see where they can get the stewardess'
Funny exchange!

GoreTex
1st Jul 2012, 11:37
Ham,
how old are you?

givemewings
1st Jul 2012, 11:58
guys like that, ruining it for the rest of you.... :ugh:

Frankly I'm surprised that post is still here after this length of time.

Hat, coat...