View Full Version : Job application - Accident history


kangaroota
16th May 2012, 05:15
How would you answer a question requiring your accident / incident history?
It seems the purpose of asking it is to be discriminatory.
Apparently the Captain of the 777 that touched down short at Heathrow had subsequent difficulty gaining a contract on the basis of his 'incident' history.
Me thinks the logical answer is "None". Your thoughts.



mixture
16th May 2012, 08:48
Me thinks the logical answer is "None". Your thoughts.


Knowingly supplying false or misleading information on a job application is never a good move.

Gertrude the Wombat
16th May 2012, 08:52
I (and colleagues) once decided not to offer someone a job because he'd lied. This was about health, not accident record - if he'd told the truth about his health status (which we knew about by other means, it was a small world even before the days of Google and Facebook) he'd have got the job.

Whether or not we wanted to hire someone with that particular health condition is something one can think about, and we decided that the answer was yes, but we weren't going to hire a liar.

Sprogget
16th May 2012, 09:07
Hmmm, a bit tricky to sweep under the carpet if you've planted a 777 in the flowerbeds at Heathrow one would imagine. Probably best to own up to that one.

Worrals in the wilds
16th May 2012, 09:16
Me thinks the logical answer is "None". Your thoughts. Watch out for Google, and the 'everyone knows a bloke who knows a bloke' principle. :uhoh:
Aviation's an incestuous game.

OFSO
16th May 2012, 09:18
a) lying - and being found out - is worse than declaring an accident

b) depends on the accident. Your fault ? A bad fault ? Hmmmm. Not your fault and you handled it well ? Very good.

In this day and age, everything can be presented in a good light. (Or we wouldn't have politicians, Greece in the eurozone, Simon Cowell, etc.)

Ancient Observer
16th May 2012, 09:47
Aviation is a very small, incestuous world. To call it "inward looking" would only partly describe it.

When I worked in Aviation the new-ish HRD introduced a policy insisting on telephone references. "What a bore" we all thought.
Was it hell. We found out lots, and did/did not recruit folk as a result of telephone calls.
Our internal and external lawyers were clear that what we did was fully legal.
I also had some interesting phone calls!

UniFoxOs
16th May 2012, 10:09
Would it invalidate the insurance??

Bit of a bu66er if there was another prang.

UFO

lomapaseo
16th May 2012, 13:27
I'd go ahead and lie and accept the consequences when found out. You would be financially better off in the long run.

Look at some of our CEO's

rgbrock1
16th May 2012, 13:49
Yes, loma, look at our CEO's. One of whom recently left his company after it was found out he lied on his Resume'.

If you get caught lying about any employment application in all likelihood you will be found out. And then fired.

jabird
16th May 2012, 14:57
In any other industry, having an "accident history" would imply you've had to wear one of those nasty blue plasters a few times.

In aviation, being alive to have a CV to put an accident history on must surely be a good thing!

Hmmm, a bit tricky to sweep under the carpet if you've planted a 777 in the flowerbeds at Heathrow one would imagine. Probably best to own up to that one.

From my SLF / ACA / red top perspective, weren't these guys "heroes", pure and simple?

Would they not have been cherished by BA, who do after all have quite a history of lucky escapes (volcanoes, cockpit windows and so on).

11Fan
16th May 2012, 16:31
I had an incident in my (young and stupid phase) past which I was not very proud of. I anguished whether to just omit it or come clean when I was being interviewed.

I chose the latter, including a detailed account during the interview. They said that probably would not have been a deciding factor in the hiring, but had I not brought it up and it was discovered later, it would have resulted in immediate termination.

I've found that the truth is always easier to remember.

Also, I've been there 25 years next week.

racedo
16th May 2012, 18:42
Better to be upfront as liars eventually get found out.

Many years ago was involved in hiring someone who had had trouble as a teenager with HM Constabulary which involved a short spell in clink. He had grown up and well out of it but had declared it even though it was spent but it still bothered him.
He got the job but a vengeful witch found out a couple of years later in office he worked in and made hay while he on holiday. I had long left by then.

First day back and he knew what the whispers were about, MD killed it stone dead just before lunch when he called people together and reported conversation was along lines of "Rumours Bob was involved in stuff as a kid, seems someone is bullying by nasty means, Bob never hidden a F:mad:g thing from me at any :mad:interview even when he could have and I still employed him and he will still be here tomorrow and the day after that. You want to ask Bob then ask him but next :mad:weasel caught rumouring I will :mad: dismiss."

Bob went from outcast to hero pretty quickly but 3 months later they apparently did an odd reorg with Witch having to report to him................she walked out same day when she complained to HR and they weren't listening.

Sir George Cayley
16th May 2012, 19:05
Ever tried being honest about mental health issues?

SGC

con-pilot
16th May 2012, 19:15
Lying on an application for employment with the US government is a criminal offense. We had one pilot that was hired, but during his background check it was discovered that he had lied his butt off. Which I could have told them if they had bothered to ask me, as I knew this guy and knew he had not done half the stuff he claimed.

He was not charged, but only because he had friends in high places. Needless to say he was fired.

gingernut
16th May 2012, 20:02
Thought you guys had a "blame free culture."

Thats what us doctors and nurses are told.

con-pilot
16th May 2012, 20:43
Thought you guys had a "blame free culture."

Uh, who are "you guys"?

ShyTorque
16th May 2012, 20:58
Ever tried being honest about mental health issues?

You'd have to be mad to do that. :}

racedo
16th May 2012, 21:12
Ever tried being honest about mental health issues?

Good point

jabird
16th May 2012, 21:42
Ever tried being honest about mental health issues?
You'd have to be mad to do that.

Lol!

I have bipolar disorder. I have just handed back my driving licence.

Somehow I don't think I'm going to get headhunted by BA's pilot recruitment office tomorrow.

Worrals in the wilds
16th May 2012, 22:33
Ever tried being honest about mental health issues?
Ha Ha.
No. :uhoh:

parabellum
16th May 2012, 22:53
A certain well known airline in SE Asia, not a million miles from Singapore, will ask you directly on their application form if you have had any accidents but it doesn't end there. If they are considering employing you they then write to your company, (who may well not know that you are looking elsewhere!), and ask them to confirm that you are who you say you are, that you have the hours, type ratings and licences you claim and details of any accidents you may have had.

If you lie you are stuffed, simple as that.

Hydromet
16th May 2012, 23:25
...will ask you directly on their application form if you have had any major incidents/accidents
Define 'major'.:rolleyes:

G-CPTN
16th May 2012, 23:45
Well the BA777 incident was pretty major . . .

. . . as was the AF Concorde one . . .

parabellum
16th May 2012, 23:49
Post edited, they didn't use the word major or incident, just accident, (always kept a copy of all my paper work, now years out of date!).

hellsbrink
17th May 2012, 05:28
Is the accident/incident history talked about only regarding flying them big cigar tubes? If not, what do they mean by accident/incident as, imo, your own personal life can have bearing on your professional one. Let's face it, someone who crashes his car a lot, or has a load of near misses whilst driving, might be seen as rather "reckless" and somehow be a "risk" in the cockpit. How far do they go?

And what if you admit to both categories at the same time, like "It was a crosswind landing, and I sh:mad: myself when the port wingtip touched the ground"?

Blacksheep
17th May 2012, 07:42
Mrs BS and I had a terrible accident - but it turned out OK in the end.

She works for Saatchi's now. ;)

parabellum
17th May 2012, 12:01
Is the accident/incident history talked about only regarding flying them big cigar tubes?


Yes.....................................

gingernut
17th May 2012, 19:25
Uh, who are "you guys"?

anyone with a vested interest in not seeing their planes crash.

jabird
17th May 2012, 21:14
Is the accident/incident history talked about only regarding flying them big cigar tubes?

Surely if you have been interviewed on Air Crash Investigation, your CV should go straight to the top of the pile.

For "lessor" events, is there not an automatic reporting to the AAIB or the local equivalent, including names of those at the controls at the time?

I can't see how anyone applying to be a pilot could hide this.

Rickshaw drivers don't have so much to worry about!

Checkboard
17th May 2012, 21:39
Thought you guys had a "blame free culture."

Thats what us doctors and nurses are told.
I wish! It's not a "blame free" culture - it's a "Just (as in "Justice") culture". It means you won't be judged on the dollar cost of your mistake - but you will be judged on wilful damage/negligence.

All this honesty on job applications is great - provided the employer is asking a legal question!

For instance - in many countries, court convictions become "spent" after an appropriate time, and you no longer need tell anyone about them, as the record is expunged. In the same manner, it mostly isn't legal to ask about many family issues (asking a woman if she intends to become pregnant in the near future, for instance). If it isn't legal for an employer to ask about such a matter, it isn't immoral to lie to that illegal question. :hmm:

gingernut
17th May 2012, 22:15
Interesting. In the NHS, we're high on health, low on safety.

We tried to turn this around a few years ago, and tried to take a leaf from "you guys."

Negligence is different to willfulness. The former is to do with learning openly from mistakes (and we have with stuff like methotrexate deaths), the latter is a different problem.

911slf
18th May 2012, 09:41
The only serious big time liars I have encountered in a work situation were personnel managers. My wife was told in a job interview that she had failed an aptitude test on three separate occasions, and was only offered the job when she produced the three letters saying she had passed.

I was in an office that was set to close, and asked for a transfer to a particular opportunity. Personnel manager assured me he had forwarded my transfer request but when I approached the guy recruiting he told me that the request had not been forwarded. When he chased it, I got the job.

In both cases we we unable to lodge formal complaints because we could not prove which individual was responsible. This was the Civil Service. It would be nice to believe things are better elsewhere......

Worrals in the wilds
18th May 2012, 11:04
This was the Civil Service. It would be nice to believe things are better elsewhere...... Yeah nah*. Unfortunately. :(
Then the powers that be wonder why every public service transfer/ promotion application is routinely followed by appeals and freedom of information requests.

All public service departments are run by a pack of self serving swine who'd sell their own Granny for a promotion. That's how they made it as senior public servants in the first place, because ability is right up there with integrity and work ethic on the 'undesirable characteristics' list. :yuk: Governments need people they can trust, not people who'll irritatingly do the right thing when there's a crunch. :\

Amoral and beholden; the Public Service way. :ugh:

(*an Australian expression that means; 'yes I agree that would be proper and correct, but it isn't).