View Full Version : Carbon fiber engine blocks
It sounds an insane idea to me, but good luck to them...
Carbon Fiber Engine Block (http://www.thecarbonfiberjournal.com/?p=770)
TURIN
16th May 2012, 06:27
How have they solved the heat degradation problems? My understanding is that CFRP starts to fall apart at about 100C.
A and C
16th May 2012, 11:37
The heat resistance depends on the resin that is used, a lot of airliners are now using carbon brakes and these units glow white hot during a MTOW V1 stop.
1800ed
16th May 2012, 11:58
The beauty of composite materials is you can choose the qualities you need and then engineer the material to have those properties. Certainly easier to say than do though!
onetrack
16th May 2012, 14:08
Carbon fibre (fiber) has a long way to go before it can stake the claims to simplicity, machinability, and relatively low cost that aluminium and (thin wall) cast iron have.
CF is expensive, cannot be machined, loses structural integrity if any of the fibres (fibers) are interfered with, and doesn't have the high heat resistance of metals.
What happens if you blow a cooling system hose with a CF block (a common occurrence), and the engine overheats? It will probably self-destruct with the unanticipated high heat levels.
I know CF is a popular product in the aviation industry, but engine blocks are an entirely different kettle of fish to airframe components and aircraft panels.
Why Is Carbon Fiber So Expensive? (http://gizmodo.com/5843276/why-is-carbon-fiber-so-expensive)
Am I correct to assume the design uses strategically placed metallic (possibly exotic ceramic) liners for piston chamber and metallic inserts for bearings and assembly
From the peanut gallery.
mad_jock
16th May 2012, 20:32
God help you if it goes on fire
peterh337
16th May 2012, 20:34
After Mr Thielert and his million euro Lockheed purchase invoices (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Thielerts-Troubles-Criminal-Investigations-and-a-Cash-Crunch-04801/) (which Lockheed didn't get copies of), which together with Diamond's general conduct in this often fraught business have set useful/practical GA innovation back a decade or more, all we need is plastic engines :)
OK on a twin I suppose, provided you stay very current :E
A and C
17th May 2012, 22:11
I was fixing VC10's from anout 1978 onwards and never saw a carbon brake, I think that the first carbon brake turned up in 1989 (?) on the first
Airbus A320's.
The memory may be subject to correction !
spekesoftly
17th May 2012, 23:57
Most of the test flights of the Concorde programme were conducted using the conventional steel brakes, but during this time Dunlop were experimenting with solid carbon fibre discs. The first production units were cleared for trials in 1972 and fitted to a BOAC VC10. In 1974 they became standard fit on Concorde, and the industry followed.
To be fair on them, the engines don't seem to be intended for aircraft.
The temperature problems and and resistance to fuel/oil were the first things I worried about... Presumably the designers have also considered them.
Mechta
18th May 2012, 21:49
The temperature problems and and resistance to fuel/oil were the first things I worried about... Presumably the designers have also considered them
Have a look how much plastic is under the bonnet of a modern car. At a lecture in the late 1980s a Rover development engineer said that the now infamous K series engine was actually their second choice. The one the development people wanted to put in production had, if I remember correctly, a phenolic resin crankcase.
Some Husqvarna chainsaws have plastic crankcases, and tens of thousands of Testors 0.049 model aircraft engines did too.