Are Pilots a bunch of crims, perverts and un-noteworthy

[solowflyer]

Why is it that after all the bollocks we have to go through to get security and ASIC clearances pilots are not seen as trustworthy people. ASIC cards are not worth the plastic they a stamped on outside aviation. Why are pilots not able to certify documents where a librarian or your average kiddy fiddling priest or teacher can. Surely we go through allot more security checks than they do?

[gutso-blundo]

Come now, the ASIC is actually quite useful. Best ruler for filling out trim sheets, and its always with me

[AirBumps]

Why is it that after all the bollocks we have to go through to get security and ASIC clearances pilots are not seen as trustworthy people. ASIC cards are not worth the plastic they a stamped on outside aviation. Why are pilots not able to certify documents where a librarian or your average kiddy fiddling priest or teacher can. Surely we go through allot more security checks than they do?

I've worked and operated in GA for about 10 years and I've meet just as many crooks in aviation as I have in any other industry. That includes a range of offenses from continual (read daily) drink driving, to theft to extortion to assault. So in answer to your question I would say its no better or worse than most industries.

As to why they can't certify documents, I think you answered that yourself when you called teachers and priests 'kiddy fiddlers'. You idiot.

Yeah sure, to get an ASIC you must go through security checks - but as is evident in your post clearly not an intelligence check.

[tail wheel]

Why are pilots not able to certify documents..........

Have you applied to be appointed a Commissioner for Declarations or Justice of the Peace in your home State? I am aware of a number of pilots that are appointed JP or Com Dec.

Being able to certify documents has nothing at all to do with being " trustworthy people". NSW Police and Federal Labor Politicians are able to certify documents............

Certain professions are able to certify a limited range of documents because they are identifyable within their profession, usually due to their professional registration. (And before you argue that you have an ARN, the medical profession registration is publicly available, where as a pilot's ARN is suject to privacy legislation.)

[VH-XXX]

There is allegedly a chap near Melbourne who is a commercial pilot that flies crop dusters (for fire fighting also) who has been convicted of lighting fires.

He holds a valid ASIC card.

Does that answer your question on the usefulness of the ASIC card?

[baron_beeza]

I am sure there are pilots, and pilots.
To think someone that may have passed a medical, possibly sat and passed a few exams, and may have gone solo (something akin to driving a vehicle) could be somehow related to honesty and integrity is a strange concept.

It would appear most here seem to think there is no correlation.
Flying an aeroplane is not exactly difficult, or special for that matter.

Having said that you don't even need to do any of that for an Airside ASIC anyway.
The ASIC has only one use supposedly. Oh, and to satisfy the politicians that an appropriate response has been taken in relation to the international (US) pressure about possible terrorist activity.

Basically the whole thing is a pointless exercise.
The card is probably best used as a straight edge. It may have other uses also.
Perhaps we should do a 101 listing ;)

As to an answer for your question.
NO....

[Old Fella]

Rather than ask why we can't certify documents, other than aviation related ones, why not ask why we have to hold the cards at all. The impost of whatever the initial fee is now, plus the bi-ennial renewal at $186 a time, is unjustified. If we are able to be issued a licence to fly the aircraft that should be suffice. I was once considered suitable to crew aircraft carrying VIP's up to and including the Queen of the Realm yet, somehow, once no longer an ADF member I need an ASIC.

[Frank Arouet]

I understand changes are afoot to make the AVID/ Recreational Licence the ASIC replacement. Which is what a lot of us fought for when the Security Aerodrome bull$hit first was mooted. In fact it was a con, because the original paperwork/ brochure clearly delineated secure areas of an aerodrome from non secure areas. Someone then told all the aerodrome operators that if they didn't make the whole aerodrome a security controlled area they were not eligible for gov't handouts. Guess what happened?

When illegal queue jumpers dump their passports and still gain access to prohibited or restricted areas, the whole scheme is seem for the scam it always was.

"Show me your Papers" as Col Klink would say.

[...still single]

Are Pilots a bunch of crims, perverts and un-noteworthy?

Pretty much.

I've found the average boilermaker is more likely to be an upstanding citizen than the average pilot.
Don't get me wrong, there are some great guys driving planes, but I think we have way more than our fair share of backstabbing, lying egotists in our ranks.

[metalman2]

So it if I were a PPL and a boilermaker would that make me super trustworthy, but alas , I have employed several boilermakers and to be honest if they don't like you as a boss even the stuff bolted down isn't safe, to that end I never had any issues (I think) but they all used to talk about the stuff the previous employer donated . Maybe one day I'll employ a pilot for a comparison !

[YPJT]

I understand changes are afoot to make the AVID/ Recreational Licence the ASIC replacement.
Only if you don't intend flying to a security controlled aerodrome Otherwise not a snowballs chance in hell.

Old Fella,
Plenty of us in aviation in one area or another with privious high level secuirty positions that now require us to hold and display ASICs. Unfortunately these requirements are well and truly enshrined in legislation. Good luck trying to get that change.

[gobbledock]

All CASA Indpectors have an ASIC.
I rest my case.

[DirectAnywhere]

Of greater relevance is the fact that I have access to an aircraft, its control column, 170 tonnes of fuel and an axe on the flight deck of said aircraft (oh, and an ASIC).

So why do I still get my balls felt up every time I go through security in the UK or USA by some bloke with an IQ approximating that of a housebrick? Just lucky maybe.:confused:

[Slasher]

ASIC cards are not worth the plastic they a stamped on outside aviation.

From what I know about idiotic ASIC cards they appear to be
merely yet another method for the Federal government to rip
off the industry and nothing more. How much are you blokes
having to cough up at gunpoint for this crap? I hear its about
90 bucks a year or something?

[jas24zzk]

90 bucks? I'll pay you to print me one at that rate slasher!

The AVID/ASIC is the biggest joke, after the Sex Offender Register I have ever seen enforced on the aussie taxpayer.

You CAN get one with a criminal conviction, depending on type. At least unlike other sectors it does consider the relevance/intervening period

That being said its crap. You can operate without one. The rules state you only need to have applied! I operated into a controlled drome a lil while back. The goon with a red card picked up that I wasn't displaying one. No problem he says, i'll just escort you. Picked up a couple of bags and helped us to the gate. How you getting out of here he asks, taxi we answer. Ordered yet he asks. Nope...he goes rings us a taxi.


4 days later we come back to depart. spots us rushes over, opens gate, again assists with the bags. Provides me use of his computer to get the Wx whilst my Pax mill about unsupervised. Best goon with a red card i ever met.


Long story short, you do not have to wear it, merely have to have applied for it. And they cannot check that!!!!

[Mike Litoris]

Why would you want to be able to certify documents? You are not allowed to charge for it.

Yet another job pilots don't get paid for......

ML

[frigatebird]

My goodness....what a title for a thread on a Pilots site..

Are you trying to start a RUMOUR..?

(Those of us in the Industry know who the shiftys are....especially if we have been bitten....) :ouch:

[Pinky the pilot]

(Those of us in the Industry know who the shiftys are....especially if we have been bitten....)

Exactly frigatebird.:ok: And we treat them accordingly too, don't we!

[remoak]

Are Pilots a bunch of crims, perverts and un-noteworthy

Only Australian ones... something to do with living in a penal colony... ;)

You don't get this problem in 100% pure NZ. We just ship all our scumbags to the big prison to the west. :ok::ok::ok:

[Ornis]

Solowflyer. Are you flying a kite? Or is this a wind up? Perhaps you have your head in the clouds.

I think medical practitioners can certify applications for passports because they are registered at a fixed public address and know the patient. Any fraud and the medical council would strike them off.

I don't think too many pilots deal with the public or know their passengers. You should feel relieved rather than unloved.

[Super Ord]

Umm.....define pervert exactly?