Afriend of mine just told me he got laid off as of may 14th, airline claiming that its reducing it fleet and laying off some ex-pats.:uhoh:

Sounds about right.. Jet is heading into a financial crisis. Strong competition in the domestic sector and the fact they pay all large expenses in USD is really hurting them.

IndiGo is doing very well a more stable and smarter buisness model.

Jet has been massively recruiting for all fleets.
Recently advertised looking for A330 and 777 captains.

This hardly can be downsizing.:=

Fullforward,

I guess you did not read what the CEO had to say? He confirmed in writing that all expat recruitment is suspended indefinitely as they try and get a handle on dollar expenses that are bleeding them dry.

This is also the reason why salarys are being delayed.

Don't forget the last time Jet had money troubles they dropped the expats like a hot potato... Then a short while later the head honcho was personally calling 777 drivers in the states to see if they would operate flights... As the local hero's SWIP had gone on strike.

No access do CEO anouncements.
It simply doesn't make any sense: one week recruiting like crazy, all agencies and fleets, the following week (literally) pressing the panic button!:confused:

If true, not exactly a sound business plan. Looks like there's a lot of heads knocking at the office...:ugh:

BTW, started advertising for 777 skippers on last 10 May, just 4 days ago!

A chap on TMU received a letter of termination the other day:*. Not a nice way to be terminated.:=... especially when set to return to BLR IAM. Start updating to CVs boys and girls.:8

During a conversation with a national pilot, a friend of mine, also an expat, put the purpose of the “EXPAT” in its proper perspective. We are not here to take jobs away from anyone. Your airline is in the business of making money. In accordance with both the DGCA and company management, qualified crews are required to operate the equipment. While there may be a plethora of first officers, there is a shortage of qualified commanders. As F/Os attain their command, the need for expats will diminish. I thought this explanation regarding the purpose of Expats was very mature, factual, eloquent and non-debatable.

Jet, along with other private Indian carriers are feeling the financial pinch from both the DGCA and Central Government. They want to see the private carriers disappear.

With the exchange rate between the Rupee and USD is in such a state, the cost for expats has increased by some 21% over the past two years.

In order to counter the increased cost of expat crews, some carriers have resorted to hiring retiring Indian Air Force pilots for DEC positions in the ATR, B737 and Q-400.

At the end of the day expats need to realize the days of being indispensible are over in parts of Asia. Your next flight with your foreign carrier carrier may be your very last one at that. That's the reality check I've lived with for the past 22 years of being an expat. The decisions made by management is strictly business… and not personal. That's another bit of reality check I've reminded myself about too.

On the flip side of the coin, how many expats, are not constantly looking for better opportunities, QOL, pay, or whatever, elsewhere??? even if life is okay where they are?

This is exactly what Jet did the last time around... Then when SWIP went on their strike were begging guys to come back.

They are hurting big time for money, because everything is paid in USD so the currency fluctuations are hurting.

That then takes any profit out of their normal operations.

The grape vine is a rumbling that more than 10 expats may be let go:{, as Jet has hired Direct Entry Captains from the Indian Air Force besides former KF skippers too.

...Jet advertised 4 days (!) ago on Parc Aviation website looking for 777 skippers!
Few weeks earlier for A330 and 737.
What the heck?
Then they press the panic button.

Who's actually ruling JET?

Rupee has losing against the dollar since almost 1 year ago.
So only now they realize that expats are an expensive luxury?

Looks like it isn't exactly a truly consistent business plan.

As for taking AF retirees to make them airline captains, it's a costly, time demanding and difficult task for several reasons. Including cultural ones.

Jet is letting go all Temporarily Medically Unfit and Leave Without Pay pilots.

They are also hiring King Fisher Skippers.

They seem to feel that expats are expensive and difficult to work with :ooh:

It is hard to argue with that sometimes.

That being said, exactly how fast can they transition these new people in place? Refreshers. FATA's, Sim rides. Not to mention that they still have to keep their current crop of pilots current. A few more opening in the BKK sim because of the KF cutbacks but still not enough to put in more then 60 captains on overnight.

I've heard they don't have enough pilots...then I've heard they are cutting back to what pilots they actually have. But somehow, the answer isn't to get MORE pilots. Well, I guess they are from the AF and KF. But it won't do them much good. And firing every expat won't solve their problems.

Why isn't the answer ever charging the passenger more?

So, our days are numbered I think. Until they suddenly want to expand again. A significant problem is their aspiring pilots don't want to be stuck in an ATR even in the Left Seat, so replacing them is going to be dependent on the KF crowd.

I could be whistling past the graveyard, but I see another year or so for the expats at Jet.

Jet CEO letter is a repeat of sorts from previous letter stating urgency to continue with cost cutting measures and closure of unproductive sectors. These actions will continue until the airline is restored to profitability. No mention of any hiring/firing although normal attrition transpiring especially on 330 fleet with many expats reaching retirement age. There is still some recruiting taking place on the wide body fleets.

Pilot salaries arrived into bank accounts today, company stated a while back that pilot pay would be delayed until the 15th for some time.

Dragon all expat recruitment has stopped. This was confirmed by a press statement in the Indian press by Jet Airways CEO. In short they are cutting back on everything that is in USD including expats.

Jet are getting hit on all sides, in the domestic by IndiGo, international by the Middle East and European Carriers. Then the currency fluctuations.

To cap it all of they operate in one of the words most corrupt and inefficient countries.... No wonder they struggle!

"Nikos Kardassis, chief executive officer, said: "We are freezing all non-rupee expenses, including those on hiring of expat pilots and foreign advertising."
Alongside the depreciating rupee, passenger numbers on Indian airlines have dropped due to tougher competition from budget airlines.
One expat pilot, who recently left India after a four-year stint working for Kingfisher Airlines, said: "Indian airlines have a pretty bad reputation for surly service, flight delays and for going on strike over wages. It is a hard environment to work in as a foreign pilot and many feel justified in asking for higher salaries.
"The Indian airline industry is in crisis at the moment so it needs to think of ways to save money but I don't think axing foreign pilots is the answer. India needs to invest money in building up its carriers so they become national symbols of good service and flying."
He pointed to Singapore Airlines, Emirates and Qatar Airlines as world-class national carriers that have global reputations and are profit-making."

It doesn't seems that India is really interested in having a world class air transport industry.
The government bleed mercilessly a carrier that could be the pride of India, like Jet Airways, in favor of the unseless mamouth Air India.
For a fraction of the fresh cash put to 'save' AI from time to time Jet Airways could be a model company, highly profitable, with excelent services and the highest standards.
Jet doesn't seems to help much, as there are some administrative nightmares on all fronts. Some huge waste of money, like hiring a number of expats, paying salaries, hotels BEFORE submiting them to an adequate medical.
Some of them coudn't even fly for the company after 6 or more months of paperworking, medical issues etc!

But the expat issue doens't represent more than 0,1% of current company losses.
Indian government itself is the biggest enemy of local air transport industry.

The news that Jet terminating expats, without notice, is spreading amongst the expats quite rapidly.

Last year, Jet Airways made an unprecedented gesture to provide pilots declared medically unfit by IAM BLR with TMU pay for upwards of 12 months. Several months after the arrangement was amended to provide 6 months of TMU pay followed by 6 months of unpaid leave.

We all know that Jet Airways, as any other airline, has the right to terminate their relationship with their pilots with adequate notice. However, new is, over the past two days, is that in the most recent cases, there was only 2 days notice given to those who were terminated.

I wonder how many expats, not only at Jet, but perhaps at Indigo, and Spice are taking Pre-emptive measures to ensure their minimal periods of unemployment should their contracts be terminated without notice?

In response to Dragon 83, it probably would not be appropriate for the CEO to cover the topic of termination of employees' contracts in his announcement to employees.

Three Airbus DECs who were assessed in January received notices that essentially hiring of expats has been put on hold indefinitely until such time the financial situation along with the value of the rupee improves. This is not a witch hunt against expats, but rather strictly a business decision.

The dynamics within the aviation industry in India will prove to be very interesting to say the least. Good luck to all during these difficult times.

The news that Jet terminating expats, without notice, is spreading amongst the expats quite rapidly.

I've been assured that the notice payments will be made, so this amounts to a 90 day vacation. For all the griping you read here, Jet has treated me well (until now :{), so I'm at least hopeful. When one door closes ... :)

I was paid today, which is a really good sign.

So far, Jet has, and IMO will continue to abide by their contractual obligations be they financial or otherwise... even if they feel it necessary to terminate their relationship with an employee or a group of employees.

I don't know of any other carrier in India providing TMU pay. That's real class:ok::D. Out of curiosity, how about Spice or Indigo??? TMU pay?

Last year, I witnessed the manager of the expat cell talking to a prospective employer, going to bat for a former employee of Jet:D. He's a descent good, man and has always given me straight answers to straight questions :ok:. Would the expat manager at Spice or Indigo help out former employees?

IMHO, Jet wants to do the right thing, as best as they possibly can under their circumstances. Does Spice or Indigo? I ask this question, not to raise anyone's dander, but to get a prospective on life and company support from other carriers in India

As cited before, contract pilots are on station, no matter the airline, for a temporary period. Over the years, as an expat, I've always been on station for the duration of the contract. That said, no matter the airline, or location, in most cases when contract is terminated by the airline for reasons without cause, before it's maturation, its strictly business and nothing personal.

yes, I quite agree that KM in Jet is a gem, and always out to help the pilots.
Jet is simply not getting anyone to come with their terms and conditions.

unfortunately, the board of directors are a bunch of amateurish idiots, who simply do not have the brains and class to run an international airline. Goyal is walking a tightrope in trying to please the 737 guys, who scream expat at the slightest, public opinion on just about everything, and a government whose only concern is their votebank and pockets.
the DGCA clowns, were a factor, but it appears that with fresh young blood coming in, the days of those who cannot read or write there are numbered.

now how does one make a profit with such thin margins and a sky rocketing fuel price ??
blame the expat, and make everyone happy as usual. you can buy time till the next episode.
the bottom line is, stay away from India, if logic and common sense are your prevail. its only money, votes, connections, emotions, and egos which count.

Many of us expats, maybe all, got the email today. Termination of contract with 3 months notice.

Was great while it lasted.

Onwards and upwards to the next adventure.

First of all... good luck to you as there are still opportunities out there at most carriers if you are under 55.

How long have you been with Jet, and which equipment were you flying?

Are your sure about that? Silverhawk

Am I sure?

Very possibly the dumbest question ever asked. Why would I post it, if I had not had the email?

Sorry to say, yes I am sure.

Captjns, B737 and B738, never got my hands on the 900s, yet! Will be just short of a year when I leave, Aug 16th. Age 47

Sorry.

You did just say, that you guess all expat is terminated.

Negative c150b. Lets not start a panic or a fun on the bank just yet. To date, Jet Airways terminated those expats currently on TMU.

Also, Jet Airways assessed the manning requirements of pilots. The expat pilots made redundant are those Jet Airways deem to result in over-staffing requirements.

Thus far, Jet Airways management are silent as to their plans for the immediate time period.

68 expats fired today

From which fleets?

If they let them go from the 737 that will keep SWIP happy... and leave the expats on the A330 and ATR

Those released from 9W are comprised of all TMUs regardless of fleet, and a mix of ATR and B737 pilots, and new hires in training.

Sounds like a re-run of what Jet did last time.

Now we wait for SWIP to spit their dummy out and they will be screaming from the rooftops to get the expats back.

I don't think SWIP was part of the decision making process as far as the expat pilots are concerned.

There may be some 737s being returned to the leasing companies thus reducing the need for foreign skippers.

Yes Jet will upgrade F/Os, which in turn who will be used to replace additional expat skippers.

Nature of the beast of being an expat. While never good news when crews be they nationals or expats let go... but the hand writing was on the wall as many notices concerning cost cutting measures, including as minimal foreign currency expenses being incurred. At the end of the day... it still sucks no matter what.

As I say same as last time.... Then SWIP brought the airline to its knees

PT, you seem to have a rather exaggerated contempt for SWIP. Have they harmed or insulted you in a direct manner?
The current layoffs are due to the freefall of the rupee. All dollar expenses have gone up by about 20%. As our fearless leader has proclaimed, the primary goals are freezing/reduction of dollar expenses. The logical fallout of this is the axing of expats. Doubt SWIP played any direct role in this. If they did I guess their master plan to bring the airline down on it's knees is well into it's initial stages.:hmm:

But answer me this...

Shortly after Jet got rid of the expats last time.... SWIP then had a strike, thats when the DFO was on TV showing his hatred towards SWIP etc.

Shortly afterwards the expats were contacted (who had just been let go) to come back and operate flights to reduce the effect of a strike.

I wonder about if it would not be better for Jet to set up another airline and move the longhaul flying off the Indian AOC. This would protect them on a few fronts.

They would also get instantly more traffic rights. The A330 already heavily operates out of Europe.. and as such could be transfered to "Jet Airways Europe" they could still fly to and from India, but would not be limited in the routes they do within Europe.

Much like Air Asia.. They have a colletion of AOC's for exactly this purpose.

These are different times and SWIP is not a party to the financial crisis that Jet is experiencing today.

As far as setting up another carrier and getting a new AOC:eek:??? In India!?!?!? In a short period of time:eek:?!?!? in India:eek:?!?!?

The DGCA in India is unlike any other DGCA in any other country. Given the fact that the Indian Government wants nothing more than to see all the private carriers disappear, they would certainly drag their feet in certifying another private carrier.

If Jet were to set up a secondary carrier it would take... lets see hmmm... about two minutes. You do know how long two Indian minutes are in real life... don't you?:ugh::ugh::ugh:???

JNS,

You did not read what I had said...


I said, I think it would be interesting for 9W to obtain an AOC in Europe and set up a separate airline in effect for the A330. These A330 would be free of the Indian BS and rupee but could still operate to and from India.

This is exactly the kind of thing Air Asia has done.

Rumors have been around in the past at Jet looking to buy an EU AOC so I guess it has crossed their minds too.

The person who said that ex-pats are an endangered species ,in the far east, is a wise man, expectations of more than 4 years are a pipe dream, its not personal, but what is hard to take is the "we want u at any cost" attitude that prevails at 1st. That causes a feeling of indispensibility, but the facts are you are in someone elses country, and no matter how friendly the inhabitants seem to be you are taking a well paying job away from a local.
So obiviously the 1st to go will be ex-pats no matter what the reason.
Personally i worked for Deccan and then Kingfisher for 4 years, then happily it was time to retire, the "send off" that the Chennai staff of KFA gave me was amazing so my feelings as an ex-pat about India are all good.:ok:

Jet to lead overseas charge as Kingfisher, AI falter: CAPA
HT Correspondent, Hindustan Times
New Delhi, May 25, 2012 Email to Author

First Published: 20:39 IST(25/5/2012)
Last Updated: 20:41 IST(25/5/2012)Share Share on facebookShare on linkedinShare on googleShare on emailmore...Comments Email print

Naresh Goyal-owned Jet Airways will lead Indian airline companies in long-haul international expansion this year, aviation consultancy firm Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation (CAPA) has said in its India International Outlook report for 2012-13.
With Kingfisher Airlines’ international
operations suspended and Air India’s (AI) long-haul services likely to be subject to ongoing industrial action, Jet is expected to seize the opportunity and aggressively expand international operations, CAPA said.

Jet Airways, India’s largest domestic carrier by passengers carried, could become a member of the Star Alliance, making it the first Indian carrier to join a global alliance. “Its plans to service Frankfurt and Munich are linked to this strategic development. SkyTeam is understood to have shown some interest in IndiGo,” the report said.

The CAPA report projected international passenger traffic to grow by 8-10% to reach 44 million. The year could also see the Airbus A380, the largest commercial airplane, make its debut in India.

“The current crisis in Indian aviation could create an environment in which previously difficult decisions could move ahead. If foreign airline investment of up to 49% was permitted and bilaterals increased, Gulf carriers such as Emirates, Etihad and Qatar Airways could establish a critical advantage in the Indian market, creating a quasi-domestic market to feed their hubs,” the report said.

Are you kidding only four years in the far east left for expats? That is not a wise statement. The orders some of these companies have are so large expats will be around for quite some time. Just because there is contraction in the market, or breif pilot equilibrium due to kfa's trouble doesn't mean expats are not required in the future. No GA equals at least 3 to 4 years to upgrade. Aircraft orders far outpace the man power available for commanders. Cpl holders don't qualify as commanders and won't for years and a percentage never will some aren't even fit to hire. A job is not entitled just because a liscence is obtained.
This reminds me of 2008 and the knee jerk letting go of a great number of expats at jet and then the scramble to hire more as quickly as possible to fill the large whole in the schedule due to aircraft deliveries. That desision cost jet millions extra. Typical airline short sighted thinking always costs them more in the end.