12th May 2012, 11:40
I recently flew LAX to Sydney and then on to Perth on Qantas. The flight into Sydney was diverted to Brisbane due to fog. That got me thinking; if the next flight could not get into Perth, what would the alternate be? There are not a lot of large cities near Perth. Anyone know the alternate for Perth?
12th May 2012, 11:47
Alternative airport for Perth (http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/second-airport-location-to-be-identified-report-20120124-1qfwq.html)
12th May 2012, 11:49
YPLM Learmonth 650 nm to the North.
YPAD Adelaide over 2 hours.
Emergency alternate YPKG Kalgoorlie but has low PCN
12th May 2012, 11:51
Would depend on the Aircraft size and Alternate weather conditions.
Kalgoorlie for A320/737 or smaller. About 1 hour from PER.
Adelaide for larger Aircraft. Just under 3 hours from PER.
12th May 2012, 11:55
So I am assuming then that A330 and B747 flights from Sydney to Perth have to carry fuel to make it to Adelaide if they need to divert. That is 3/4 of the way back to Sydney.
Thanks for the replies.
12th May 2012, 12:08
Except in Oz you don't legally need an alternate.... :ugh:
And because of this, Perth has caused more than a few anxious moments over the years. The weather is not always like the tourist brochures. A quick search of the ATSB website gives some interesting reading.
12th May 2012, 12:14
Adelaide for lager Aircraft.
You Aussies and your pre-occupation with beer......:)
Sir George Cayley
13th May 2012, 21:45
I always file Dundee as my alternate - it's only a few miles up the Tay.
13th May 2012, 21:55
We used to use Island Reserve for Perth.
14th May 2012, 02:04
I think Reno, Nevada, USA is a great alternate for Perth. Good weather, lots of hotels.
However, unless your plane is equipped with an oscillation overthruster, accessing a wormhole, the distance is considerable. However if you do have the oscillation overthruster, KRNO is the ICAO identifier...watch out for turbulence from the mountains and be sure you have the ILS tuned up .
14th May 2012, 05:23
Oscillation overthruster? Is that EASA new speak for the flux capacitor? Do they still have sky marshals on all Aussie flights to repatriate the criminals? No alternate required legally? Seems Australians couldn't give a XXXX about them.
Except in Oz you don't legally need an alternate - could you elaborate?
14th May 2012, 11:20
BOAC, Compressor Stall is correct. It's slightly different, but so long as you are carrying the appropriate holding fuel of 30 minutes. However, the weather must be forecast to be better than:-
From Australian AIP ENR 1.1 -87 see para 58.2.1
a. cloud - more than SCT below the alternate minimum (see paras 58.2.12 and 58.2.13 ); or
Note: In determining requirements for alternate aerodromes, fore- cast amounts of cloud below the alternate minima are cumulative. For determining requirements, the cumulative cloud amount is in- terpreted as follows:
FEW plus FEW is equivalent to SCT,
FEW plus SCT is equivalent to BKN,
SCT plus SCT is equivalent to BKN or OVC.
b. visibility - less than the alternate minimum; or
￼is endorsed with a percentage probability of fog, mist, dust or
any other phenomenon restricting visibility below the alternate
d. wind - a crosswind or downwind component more than the
maximum for the aircraft.
Note: Wind gusts must be considered.
ENR 1.1 -88
58.2.3 When weather conditions at the destination are forecast to be as
specified at para 58.2.1, but are expected to improve at a specific time, provision for an alternate aerodrome need not be made if sufficient fuel is carried to allow the aircraft to hold until that specified time plus 30 minutes.
58.2.4 When weather conditions at the destination are forecast to be above the values specified at para 58.2.1, but, additionally, inter- mittent or temporary deteriorations in the weather below the va- lues are forecast, provision of an alternate need not be made if suf- ficient additional fuel is carried to allow the aircraft to hold for:
a. 30 minutes for intermittent deterioration (INTER); and
b. 60 minutes for temporary deterioration (TEMPO).
Phew. There you go. ;)
14th May 2012, 11:34
Always land in PER with gas for YPLM, cept of course, when we don't :E
Thanks, Redsnail- pretty similar to EUOPS then in many ways. As I suspectedExcept in Oz you don't legally need an alternate was a little melodramatic.:)
15th May 2012, 10:29
The only time I've been diverted going into Perth, we ended up refuelling in Kalgoorlie. The 30 min hold fuel plus the 45 min reserve required is plenty to go at least that far on a jet. Plus if they're desperate Pearce is pretty good at letting the airstrip being used. And Jandakot has had a 737 land there before... but they weren't technically allowed to.