Just days after the Viets drove an A321 goes off the runway at Ho Chi Minh City subsequently destroying the tires and landing gear, yesterday they had a tail-strike involving the 777.

I can't believe that the A321 Captain who destroyed the landing gear on that A321 could get promoted and upgraded on to the 777 so fast.

get over it.....thats the way they do things there.

where i come from, that behaviour would not be tolerated.

This is turning in to a real circus....amazing... :eek:

It's been a circus a long time. Now it's just becoming a danger act.

No surprise. Never have I seen such a poor standard in all my life. Trainers (very loosely termed) who wouldn't qualify for a second officer position anywhere else. Terrible knowledge and ability and huge egos combined with nepotism and corruption. What a recipe for disaster!
Flying through pure "rote" not actually understanding what their doing or why. Just pure blind luck and the reliability of Boeing.
If there is one company in the world right now that's heading for a hull loss then its Vietnam airlines. Especially from what I witnessed on the 777 fleet.
The whole system is fundamentally wrong.
There will be more incidents you can be guaranteed of that.
I personally think it won't be long before their put on the "banned" list for Europe, and already Australia has been raising eyebrows at some of the recent incidences on the 330 going into Melbourne.

Any details on this one?

PappyJ,

What's the source of your info? I have not been able to find any references in the local media.

I personally think it won't be long before their put on the "banned" list for Europe, and already Australia has been raising eyebrows at some of the recent incidences on the 330 going into Melbourne.


I am not arguing with you at all, but I can not see any reference to this incident, can you pls send some more details so I can find more info please.

Isn't it a member of Star alliance or somethin'? And what do
the other carriers say about this nonsense? I haven't heard a
damn thing.

It will probably reach the point when pax just won't touch VN
and demand another connecting carrier, and then the Alliance
members themselves will get fed up and recruit a safe carrier
like JSP or something.

Is it star? I thought they were in sky team? Either way... A very valid point and one that should be addressed.

SkyTeam Members

Our Members (http://www.skyteam.com/en/About-us/Our-members/)

it seems like you are a very bitter people pappy and b777-200er no one put a gun to your head and ask you to join vietnam airlines,if you are a pilot in vietnam then you should just leave....seems like all this stress will give you a heart attack.

all airlines have their share of little screw ups,look at qantas...they have had some news breaking problems with their planes...does this mean they are not safe?

what about american airlines which overshot the runway in jamaica ? or the 2 idiots from northwest which missed their TOD coz they were bitching about the airline?

you seem very biased and should leave if you are indeed working here. or wait maybe you can't as the states and europe are still messed up !

I left the airline. I couldnt work with them. "all" of my intake of 777 pilots did the same. They were terrible. You can talk them up and try and put a different spin on them, the truth is, the evidence is speaking loud and clear all by itself.
They'll be more too.

PappyJ,

So was there a tailstrike or not?

hI 777ER.

I think maybe it is time to start a new thread called "The clowns of Vietnam Airlines" and lets go back to 1997 where this nonsense started.

Yes there was.And this was not the first one.3 on the A321 and 1 previously on 777.

India, when incidents happen in this part of the world by locals, it doesn't get in the news, you won't read about the facts the next day, but this type of situation is certainly not limited to SE Asia, I can name a pretty big EU country that has the same practices. :hmm:

DL

Blue stork and b777-200 er

Good and bad news.

Good news is that you 2 are no longer with VN :ok:

Bad news is the airlines that you're with:D

Yes I left the airline, and until I joined Vietnam Airlines I have never been compelled to write anything up about anything or even join pprune before. Im not a renegade or someone with a grudge, but the things I saw at VN were unbelievable. On top of that, they were nasty, Incompetent and made it very clear that expats were not welcome on their coverted fleet of old 777's.
They were looking for any angle to try and shaft you, and dock your pay.
Ive had the benefit of working with proffessionals in my career and first class airlines. People who are qualified for the positions that they hold and know what their doing. I cant say that of Vietnam Airlines.
The standards at VN were low. Very low and the calibre of trainers and capts there also very low.
As I stated previously, there will be more incidents. It will be as a direct result of having inexperienced and unqualified people in positions of management and the flight training department.
Its only a matter of time before Vietnam Airlines has a major incident. I would not allow my family to fly with them for that reason.

as it seems to me your time in VN was rather short,

so why did you come there, flying for world class airlines before?

as by my assumption there must be at least 70 captains and 10+ of them

instructors, did you fly with all of them?

have you been there as capt or f/o?

why you state you would not let your family travel with VN?

as you left it is obvious that they would not use VN anyway,

so simply get on with your life and be happy to be out of vietnam,

world class airlines are waiting for you!

Mach 84

Nicely said.:ok:

Yep, all is well at VNA, the cadets ar coming! :ugh:

Yes Im in one of those world class airlines now. What a difference it makes huh?

Bad news for the Airlines.

I am retired and and you can enjoy your life in the sandpit.

It is quite obvious you do not even know the facts about VNA

Not that the Airlines in your part of the world are much better.

Good luck

Strange post. Are you on wine?

anyway, sandpit, jungle, what is the difference?

You can train anyone as much as you like. Constant descent, fuel economy, blah blah blah.

If He can't stop befor the end of a Long runway what to do yanni?

Exactly! I think he was refering to the posts above where two "gentlemen" were suggesting that it is in fact "us" that is/was the cause of VNA's woes?
The evedence is out there, its shouting from the roof tops for anyone that cares to listen. Their substandard and heading for a major incident.

ia1166,

For informational purposes, absolutely no negative remarks toward Stork will be tolerated. The tough guy will run to the mods to request that your post be promptly scrubbed, lest he have a complete breakdown.

India, when incidents happen in this part of the world by locals, it doesn't get in the news, you won't read about the facts the next day,

Dream Land,
I'm fully aware of that, but I was wondering if the OP was posting an unsubstantiated rumour or if he had any details.

Not a rumour. :cool:

777-200Er

I am curious why you've decided to leave your so-called world class airline for VN in the first place then only to leave VN to go back?

We all needs to read between the lines..

Stork

Good that you are out of aviation forever...stay cool and stay out..

By the way....do you know me? I dont think so. So how can you assume that i dont know about VN? Never assume anything:=

I didnt go back. But VNA wasnt for me. Im much happier where I am now thats for sure. They were terrible.
My last airline downsized. It wasnt worth staying. Great flight ops department but terrible management. From a pilots point of view its about the flight ops and standards/safety etc. Not much we can do from our end about the management side of things. Pitty really otherwise I'd never have left.

etops 777.
Good stay in the desert where you belong.No doubt one of these days we will see you you on one of the news channels or National Geograhic.
Clowns like you who have degraded the flying fratenity along with The Grove.

Stork Or "dork"

I will have to disappoint you in your request. It is good that you are no longer in aviation! With your assumptions or presumptions mindset, better just to chill by the beach. The most ideal place for you after a hell of a career:D

The training standards are not only below par on the 777 (locals), but the top VN TRE's on the 320 in Hanoi are definitely included in that club, I'm not here to attack the posters on this thread like some, but the Stork has always been a professional operator in Vietnam.

VNA's relationship with foreign pilots has gone down hill over the last three years and I don't feel that many will disagree, I certainly don't feel that the new system of fines and penalties will serve any positive impact to keep safety at a high level, I think it will only drive people away.

DL

The Grove,
Actually Tanua and i do not stoop so low.The moderator did not delete any of your posts.Maybe tell some more lies.The only person who deleted your posts was you.

100% correct B777ER.It is suprising that there are people that make such rash assumptions on this forum.

Didn't delete a thing, Stork. Just another lie from you. As for your Ansett line crosser pal Tanua, no comment.

Stick around you will be in for a shock shortly Grove.The only person who posted inaccuracies and lies was you.

Below from one of your countryman.

all the info Ive sent u is 100% legit........and verifyable........the grove reckons he,s not Glenn...is he lying?........

who is CM???.......another piece of yank shit......not who you think I am but one of his mates...Jetstar A320 Capt,Im now in china....I witnessed the punch-up and why it started...JR went looking for a fight and got one.....the grove is a liar-period,he wasnt there I was.....RAL refused to take back JR after he handed in his resignation...and VAC wanted him gone...JR accused my kiwi mate of orchestrating the whole thing...he had nothing to do with it...nobody ran...he was recalled......there were no sucker punches...they both went at it.......period.....I think I know who u are...may have seen u at some RAL/parc pissups.....all of the frontier pilots I met were nothing but pieces of shit.....yank crap.....pathetic really......thanks in advance for your help....I have passed your info on....

You've got some classy mates, Stork. He's either illiterate or drunk, I can't figure out which. Or, in all likelihood, he's the alcoholic Kiwi himself. Now there is a guy who would never be allowed back on the property at VAC, since we're on the subject. He's a human train wreck.

JR could come back to VAC tomorrow if he wished. Through Parc or DPI. The Viets liked him and so did the expats. As for Rishworth, he would never have asked them for another contract. He is the guy who told them to stick it with their illegal retroactive pay cut, have you forgotten? The pay cut that you meekly bent over for. :p

Lie after lie after lie. You're a ninety pound weakling trying to sound tough on a webboard, from 3,000 miles away. What an old fool.

I think I've been here longer than any of you and I have to say I agree with the grove.

Jr was liked and could come back if he wanted. The kiwi. No chance. Too many fights and too many issues.

The yanks are all good pilots. I have first hand experience of this in the sim so that's a total crock.

Not sure who you are stork, but you are talking out of your proverbial.

Grove-

If you wish to denigrate me in order to make yourself feel "superior" or whatever the motive- then please be accurate. I crossed the Line in 1989 with East West Airlines-Ansett absorbed that operation some years later.

I have identified myself & told you where I live & you have made no effort to speak to me ! Despite this, you have the temerity to keep telling others that they lack courage & are cowards talking from a long way away. You obviously take great courage from "shielding" behind your handle?

I thought perhaps you might simply have a severe case of the "Duck's disease" & that is fine but you really seem to enjoy "attacking" people. I have no difficulty with you defending your friends & countryman but that can be done in a much better manner than what your employing at present.

Please accept this comment with the menace it intends-if you post another attack of any kind toward me- without having the decency to talk to me first- I WILL find out who you are & your tenure in Vietnam may not be as long as you desire.

Have a good day now & fly safely.:ok:

Hi Tanua, Mate i can't see any posts from the grove that have attacked you.

what gives

Hi matey. must have missed all the goings on.
lets all go back to 2004. minus mr pot tie.

What is it with americans and fighting in bars anyway?

So, as you can see, it's only the local captains in this airline who suffer from CRM issues, poor conflict resolution skills, big egos and general immaturity. Not the expats, at all :rolleyes:

Wow! That's about all I can say to some of these posts! Boy am I glad to be out of that horrible airline!

777.
A horrible airline. Interesting comment.

Whatever your problem is, you left to go somewhere else. So live with it. To come back here and throw mud around just makes you look like you're not happy where you are now.

I can tell you that VN has some excellent pilots in its ranks. just like everywhere else. The older guys, me included, have been here a long time. We have reached a point in life where we realise that we are not living for aviation, but using aviation to support our families, friends and lifestyle. VN suits our lifestyle. I would appreciate less of your attacks on the pilot community here.. many of which i am sure would run rings around you. Viets and expats included

If you really feel the need to attack the training department of any fleet, i would suggest to you that you may like to attempt training yourself. Where you are everyones friend at check time, and everyones enemy at debrief time. it is a difficult line to walk as we are all just trying to get along, pay the bills, keep the wife happy, and have a beer or two. The problem being every pilot i know and have checked in the sim thinks he's chuck yaeger, where in reality we are all just mr average.

So please, enjoy your new airline, move on, and when you have been around a bit look back and realise...life is about your family, not your uniform.

Glad to see you're all alive and kicking, each other! ;-)

I hope R.N. wasn't chopped as well. When I was based in Sai
Gon yonks ago with another Co he was a regular at the Omni.
Great bloke for a beer and yarn and I reckon one of the rare
ones who really did give a shit if you were neck-high in it. Is
he still there and gotten rid of that bitch he often complained
about?

ia1166, thanks for all your opinions, but coming from you it's actually no insult at all, I know what the real opinion of you is from most of the crews and it's funny that you feel that you are what it's all about. You've been true to your colors since you've arrived, really no change, and as for you to come on this thread and badmouth the airman you train with - just reinforces what we already know about you. What a very sad person.

RN still there and doing well, and yes, she is gone.

DL

What training department? There's a training department at VNA? For real??? Can't say I noticed one? I wonder if they've managed to find any trainers to put in it?
I did notice a lot of oxygen thieves however.

Ok good to hear - I really liked R. Thanks for your reply Mr Land.

Get a grip 777-200 you sound bloody hysterical. Why do you keep coming back here to cry about it? You had a bad time here and you bailed out, fine, we all got your message. Many hundred other pilots here, came to a different conclusion than you.

You're right in one sense, if you come here and you don't know your stuff or you're a gash pilot, they won't "train" you up to speed. And there is the potential here for pilots - both expats and locals - to become slack & non-SOP & lazy. But nobody's forcing you to lower your own standards.

Honestly it's such a simple concept to grasp - go to work, fly the plane, humor the guy in the other seat even if he's an idiot, make sure nothing dangerous happens on YOUR flight. Go home, chill out - or go partying or whatever you're into. Enjoy all this country has to offer. Enjoy your pretty-good tax free salary. Enjoy your two week holiday every 6 weeks. Feel smug about the fact you earn 3 times what the locals do, and about 100 times the national average wage.

Personally I find this to be the most low stress job I've ever had. It's just about impossible to fail a sim here, once you're in. Compare that with Korean. It appears to be just about impossible to fail a medical. Compare that with China or Japan. Just because you "can" get away with it, doesn't mean of course that you "should" let yourself turn into a bad pilot, or a fat chain smoking alcoholic. Once again, some self policing is required :hmm:

There are some very bloody good pilots in this place - and some pretty bad ones. Like I said, nobody is forcing YOU to lower your standards to that of the lowest common denominator. Know your aircraft, know your SOPS, stay vigilant, stay proficient, lead by example. You'll gain respect from everyone. (Portuguese A330 captain S.E. is a great example of that, he's a great guy and really really knows his stuff. They just made him TRE on his fleet and first expat working in the safety dept).

If you have safety concerns or you simply can't fly with one guy, then deal with it in plenty of time, through the proper channels, even in this airline those channels do exist.

One of "them" might well stack a plane up one of these days, not your problem, just make sure it's not one that you are on.

And always remember the proverb, "grant me the strength to change what I can change, the serenity to accept what I cannot, and the wisdom to know the difference".

Hey, glad you like it there. I'm not hysterical, crying or otherwise. I know my stuff too. That's the reason I left.
Last time I checked this was a public forum right?
If you want to talk about hysterical then just read some of the posts above mine? Disgruntled? Immature? Irrational? There's a dozen things you could call them.
I'm just a regular guy. If you knew me you would know that. I'm not a renegade, trouble maker, sh1t stirrer or otherwise.
Anyway. Who cares about VNA right? I'm not there anymore. I couldn't stand them or their country.
But I honestly think that their heading for some more major incidents the way things are, and it's not just the training department and lack of training/standards. It's the whole deal from the cultural side to the way it's run.
This thread was originally about that. Somehow it's degenerated into a personal slanging match between certain individuals and it's all very ugly and unrelated.
It's pretty noble stuff huh?
That's it for me anyway.
Call me what you like. Hope you enjoy your time there.
Over and out from me.

Yeah you got a point there - once Aussies start insulting each other over '89 its generally time for sensible people to head for the hills. Or lock the thread.

Hope you're all having a good evening gents ... wherever you are :cool:

Luke out

Luke-

Just to correct a misunderstanding with your perspective on this thread. A lot of the "argument" from this forum started on the Hainan Airlines thread & they both have a page of missing posts?

This makes it difficult to come in & assess where things are at- but -there has not been any problems between Australians & Australians-89 or otherwise.

Safe flying.:ok:

I will say we pilots are our worst enemies!As for saying the training department sucks is not true. They do expect you to know SOPs and the plane which you should because everybody is already rated when hired. There's always room for improvement with any training department. As for saying the training pilots are bad that's BS! I took multiple Rides with ia1166 and he was better than most of the check airman in the States, also thought the Viet guys where fine. I learned the hard way about the SOP since I was the first American to show on property from Frontier and was not used to a QRH. The Viets who trained me were great guys and did a standup job getting me through it. Maybe alot has to do with The attitudes of the individuals.
I'm to lazy to look at who said all the Frontier pilots suck but some of the worst pilots I had ever flown with there were other expats not the Viets! All I ever heard from the Viets were how much they enjoyed flying with the Americans compared to the Ausies, Brits etc. I'm sure a lot of guys who didn't make it through training flew with Captain Bick.

I will say at least none of the Americans were ever SCABS! And we all know who the SKABS are over there.

It's like what ia1166 said its about pay, days off, and having a good time.
Tom

Tknapp

It seems to be same everywhere. Most of the guys in Emirates would prefer to fly with an American than Aussi or Brits.

ETOPS where did you get that idea from? I'd rather fly with an Aussie or Brit any day. At least they can speak aviation English and will buy a beer in the hotel. Yanks are either bible bashing country hicks or Bush loving right wing warmongers. Hoo haa!

VFE NEXT.
You might be a little bit shocked about what comes next.

IA 1166 FAR offine as regards dreamland

As for the Grove.

He will also catch a wke up call.

More inane blabbering from the retired fool.

Now that the fighting has died down ;), could we get back to the topic?

The OP, PappyJ, stated that there had been a tail-strike and subsequently has been absent from the thread.

Dream Land posted
Not a rumour. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cool.gif


Why so coy, Dream Land? What, when and where?

Let those who are working at VNA fill you in if they are so inclined, not even newsworthy in my opinion.

DL