View Full Version : Anyone ever seen a dual artificial horizon in one case?
3rd May 2012, 20:27
Possibly RN and off the Eagle, everyone is scratching their heads over this, including me..
What is this Attitude Indicator from? - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=116425)
3rd May 2012, 21:21
Never seen one but the left hand display seems to have a wire frame showing the side view of an aircraft and more detailed graduations where the nose would sit in level flight, so maybe some form of accurate pitch indicator as the right hand display is bare, but seems like complete overkill.
Thats my tuppence worth!
A very early form at attitude indicator with pitch on the left and roll on the right. Must be about 1930s. So this would be my best guess.
BK1 Eagle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Aircraft_Eagle)
On the outbreak of the Second World War, seven Eagles were impressed into RAF service in the UK
Hence the MOD tag.
3rd May 2012, 22:50
Since RN Form S.331 is/was a Stores Return form, as referred to on the label in the opening post, I would support ....
Possibly RN and off the Eagle,
and be considering the types of aircraft she carried at the time. Some Air Stores wallah could well identify the reference numbers from memory!
4th May 2012, 01:21
It says attitude indicator on the label ....:8
Nutloose, No real idea but having looked at the other forum I'm inclinded to agree with the "Flight Sim" theory - is it possible Eagle had an Air Intercept (AI) trainer?
( Thinking along the the lines of the AI trainer that was used on the on the F-4 OCU at Coningsby years ago - that had a very rudimentary instrument fit..)
4th May 2012, 07:52
If it was off a pre-war aeroplane I would expect it to have been air driven. There appears to be a modern OFF flag in the presentation which suggests it is post war. Why would they have an off flag in a ground trainer?
Looking at the OFF flag, it seems that the instrument is designed to be mounted as it sits in the picture.
The right hand display is a standard attitude indicator, with roll pointer at the bottom.
The left hand instrument has its fine graduations on the right. Could it be an indicator of pitch trim (ie how many degrees NU or ND pitch trim)?
4th May 2012, 10:19
KG - I take your point about pitch trim but why have any other markings on the left hand dial except the fine grads around the NU/ND area? Can't think of many aircraft that are trimmed to fly in a 90deg NU/ND attitude!
4th May 2012, 10:24
Could it be for the launch control officer? He would need to know the pitch of the carrier so as not to launch the A/C at the oggin but on the upward motion and the less roll the better. Looking at the instrument with the cover off, it would appear to be a 'repeater' instrument rather than a primary one.
4th May 2012, 10:31
GG - now there's a thought. I've trying to think of why you would want to see the attitude of the aircraft FROM THE SIDE (left dial). The right dial - yes, standard attitude indicator, happy with that. But, if I was the cat man, I might want to have an idea whether, on hitting the button, I was going to hurl them at the wide blue yonder or the deep grey hereafter! Good call.
4th May 2012, 10:49
The right side doesn't seem to be able to move in pitch; seems LFFC got it right.
Any thoughts as to what appears to be another small indicator top centre of the instrument??
4th May 2012, 11:17
It looks a very confusing instrument. The gull's wings seem to be static with the horizon moving in roll only whereas the pitch horizon seems to be static with the aircraft silhouette moving. I'm not sure that I could get my brain round that. Since it seems to be such a 'novel' instrument perhaps the top centre indicator is either turn or slip.
Where is the erect button?
A possible, though highly unlikely, answer is from a torpedo launching aircraft where knowing thepitch was most useful.
I suspect that as this item is not a listed inventory item, that it was a prototype.
The Fairey Sworrdfish certainly did not have such an instrument in the pilots cockpit. Anyone think of aircraft that might have had it installed?
There was a Swordfish at Strathallan in 1977. Could it have come from that? Doubt it. What about later aircraft? Does the "Eagle" mean it came from HMS Eagle originally?
Another thought is that it could be fitted to aircraft for deck landing training, or for testing new aircraft types on carriers, so that pilots could ensure attitude was correct for tail hook to catch arrester wires.
4th May 2012, 13:26
It could be confusing. In all three view drawings of aircraft the fuselage is pointing to the left. With this if one if someone is making a snap decision on the attitude he is going to think that 5 degrees nose up is 5 degrees nose down.
4th May 2012, 17:14
I had a Fiat Panda Sisley with one of those!!
6th May 2012, 13:14
Judging by the appearance, outer case and anchor nut style in the corners etc, would say that this is 60's to 80's timeframe. The other point being that there are two separate dials, the right hand one for roll and the left for pitch, whereas a standard horizon combines the two. My guess is ground simulator or test equipment application of some sort, but what does the nametag on the case and label say ?... Regards, Chris
6th May 2012, 13:27
Operator's read out for a RC aircraft, drone or target where the operator was not visual with the object under control?
6th May 2012, 13:32
Are you sure its from an aircraft?
It looks very similar to "hands on play experience" objects I've seen in science museums where the object is to keep a suspended model aircraft level in a small wind tunnel
Can't think where or when - but it certainly looks familiar from that context
6th May 2012, 21:14
The label shows 6A/NIV. 'NIV' was/is the acronym for 'Not in Vocabulary' i.e not formally provisioned so not assigned a 'proper' section/reference, and probably pre-dates NSNs. I suspect that the item is a non-standard item and as such would be unlikely to be fitted to an aircraft unless it was on a trial fit: I certainly wouldn't have expected to see it as part of the general stock of aircraft instruments.
7th May 2012, 06:01
Agree with 4mastacker except I'd add to this...
i.e not formally provisioned so not assigned a 'proper' section/reference, and probably pre-dates NSNs.that there are more reasons for NIV. If the ident label was accidentally removed and a glance through the Rate Book (showing my age there) didn't come up with an NSN, then stores wallahs would be told to append NIV after (the rather obvious, in this case) 6A, and return to, usually, 14MU.
14MU would then look to specialist workshops at 3rd line, who would occasionally get a crate of NIVs to assess.
The NIV suffix would be sufficient to prevent it being issued to front line or fitted to an aircraft.
I followed the link to the other site (very interesting, never been there before) and it was mentioned that Strathallan Air Museum was printed on the paperwork. At the time, (1977) Strathallan's pitot-static systems were maintained by MoD (NARO) 3rd line workshops. (Sssschh!! they weren't charged, the instrument fitters regarded it as a pleasure to get to work on Lancasters and the like:ok:). Hence, it would not be a contradiction for an MoD conditioning label to be attached to a Strathallan instrument.
7th May 2012, 11:04
Its not from a Jindivik Director aircraft by any chance?
I seem to recall reading somewhere that when the Jindivik came into service they used a Meteor trainer with a controller in the back seat in case they lost signal from Llanbedr.
A quick goggle reveals that at least one of the Sea Vixens at Llanbedr came from Eagle, so possibly also used as a Director aircraft.
De Havilland Aviation Sea Vixen (http://www.dehavillandaviation.co.uk/Projects/svhistory.htm)
7th May 2012, 13:23
I've definitely seen these in cars, like that Fiat panda shown earlier.
The top left of the repair tag shows what could be a serial number ( popular format) 24KHI/56. The /56 usually denotes the year of manufacture. Could that narrow it down a bit.
Pete, another stacker!