View Full Version : The dilemma from hell, what to do, or not to do!
28th Apr 2012, 23:59
For some time I have been pursuing the hunt to get a job, and during this time I got some contacts, and some good leads.
Now with one established company, I finally trough some of my contacts agreed to a deal with getting an offer of a contract, upon completion of TR course, which would be costing me £XX amount of pounds, in addition the pay would really be crap for at least 2 - 3 years, in addition after paying for all, they still want to bond me for the first 2 years. However this would be on a popular short-haul aircraft.
Now this had been going on for some time, a bit back and forward the last few months, because not sure of the companies recruitment plans.
At the moment I was actually happy that they was delaying all a bit, because of events that happen on Friday. However today I got the message that we could go ahead, and I need to start preparing for sim check and tech check with them, so I can start TR, as long as all goes well of course.
However on Friday, an old personal friend sent me an SMS to give him a call, and he asked how it was going, at this moment I had not received the go ahead for the other job, so I explained him, very little chances, and the ones that are around have very bad T & C's.
He than asked me if I could send him my CV, because his company was looking for pilots, and there was a chance that they might give me an interview/sim assessment, because he is a captain at the company he would bring them my CV. Also if offered job, it would be long haul, they would pay TR and offer 3 - 4 times the pay of company A, in addition it would be based in a location that I would really like to live.
However nothing is sure with either of these offers, however the first one is already setup and cleared by the company, as long as I pass their assessment. But really really bad pay + pay own TR. But I must give the go ahead imminently on this one.
The second option, is trough a personal friend, (he contacted me, but said he could not promise anything 100%, which I fully understand), they provide good pay and provide the TR, but I don't know if I get the assessment yet or when I get the assessment if it does get approved.
However how the timeline has worked out, if I choose to gamble on one or the other, one will have to be given a miss!
Reality is that the first option from the information I have gathered so far, is a more sure bet with regards to securing the job, the second option is still a bit in the air, and much unclear, as I have only known about it for few days.
With my age I am not normally spoilt for choice, and feel if I say no to option 1, than if it does not work out with the second option, I am screwed. There is no two ways about it, as some say it, when it rains, it pours! If I say no to first option, I might end up with nothing but a pie on my face! Not sure never been lucky in gambling.
One being a slave, the other getting normal pay for a proper day of work and being treated with respect (I hope) !
Personal opinion, on the basis of info given, is to give the go ahead for 1, meanwhile continue to follow up 2. The first company are clearly not interested in treating you well, or with respect, so I wouldn't feel guilty about saying thanks, but no thanks, if the second company comes through for you.
Again, as I said, just imo.
29th Apr 2012, 00:55
Problem is that I will have to provide money for TR upfront, probably long before I get to the interview stage of the second company! Sigh...
29th Apr 2012, 04:32
Well if that's a dilemma from hell, I wish I could have had that version of hell in all those years I was unemployed ...
Seriously I wouldn't run away from the first offer, a contract in the hand is worth 100 vague promises from airline-captain friends.
Many times a friend will offer to bring your CV to their company or whatever, and they always mean well, and you always get very excited when you talk to them about it over a few beers, but the truth is they often they don't have as much effect on the hiring as they wish they did. I know, because I've done it myself in the past. What is quite often the case, is that even if the airline decides to hire 10 F/O's or whatever, there are already 100 pilots who've already put their mate's CV on the pile before you, with a great recommendation :hmm:
29th Apr 2012, 05:06
Take the 1st job.. I agree with the poster above.
A contract is more valuable then a promise.
29th Apr 2012, 09:43
it would be long haul, they would pay TR and offer 3 - 4 times the pay of company A, in addition it would be based in a location that I would really like to live.
who on earth offers cadet entry level, long haul, free type rating and pays in the region of £75k to £100k??
Assuming this isn't a wind up, I'd go with the definite offer. A bird in the hand...
29th Apr 2012, 10:12
I am tending to agree with what has been said. However on the other hand, my friend by the way from over 20 years back, he actually contacted me, we had not spoken for several months, but as he said he could not give promises, but believed it could be worth a go and see what happen.
But I do agree with concept bird in the hand, and it is not a wind up...
Of course I know there are worse problems in the world, however when waiting long enough for a job possibility, it becomes a personal hell makes you wonder if something positive might happen.
I am also fully aware the second offer is pretty amazing if it was to materialize, but the problem is time is not on my side. I need to decide shortly what way to go, and from what we have there is not much secure yet on the second option, but I only sent over my CV to him on Friday, so there has been no time yet. By the way the pay was not £75 - £100K, was less than that, more like £50K a year I think, not sure exact details, but around that figure.
29th Apr 2012, 11:32
So what you are saying is that you have actually been "offered" an assessment by a company that wants you to pay for a type rating with a conditional offer of employment if you are successful throughout. Balanced by a mate who has offered to drop your CV on somebodies desk for an airline that is looking to employ long haul pilots on A330 aircraft for around £50k a year.
Whilst not wishing to burst your bubble or alleviate you from the "personal hell" that you are bravely electing to share so publicly. I am guesing that an airline offering those terms and conditions isn't very likely to be fishing from the ranks of low houred inexperienced pilots who are available in abundance.
Is this really the "dilemma from Hell?"
29th Apr 2012, 13:34
Well why not take option 1 and pay the money and start the type rating
Pursue option 2 and if offered a job go with them and ditch option 1
As you said yourself you will be paid 3 times the money so you can afford to gamble the option 1 type cost. You will be no worse off financially for a few years just a bitter pill to pay out a huge sum then quit
29th Apr 2012, 16:09
At the moment, you have no job. You dont have a job until you walk through their door on day 1. So say yes to both and what will be will be.
Tell number 2 you want them and let them know that you have no choice but to go ahead with job 1 as at the moment, you have no other choice, but can they get in touch with you ASAP as job 2 is availible as you would go to them at as early an op as possible.
In aviation, you do what is best for you, because, when times get tough, they will drop you like a stone.
If job 2 was not on the table, what would you do with regards job 1 ?
Well job 2 is not on the table yet and may never be.
And to come to think of it, you have not got job 1 until day 1
29th Apr 2012, 18:27
Until this week-end I was all set for option, however they kept dragging their feet and delaying due to circumstances, which to be honest was ok with me, as I had a strong indication that it would probably go ahead, was just a matter of time!
However I was also very surprised by option 2, and I agree with you Bealzebub, I would not think they would be looking for someone in my position, however I was told by my friend that he had info that they sometimes took inexperienced people too, and after all I never asked him to look for a job for me, it all came out of the blue!
But I said more hours would be better.
This leads me to think of a middle way, maybe it would be better to try to gain initial experience with company A, however my biggest problem with them i addition to paying the TR (which I have expected anyway), was the pay T's and C's. The bond with them was only 18 -20 months, so not to long.
I have explained my friend the situation, he has not been flying for any European company, however he is shocked and appalled by how pilots are treated in Europe, specially with regards to getting their first job, and compared it to slavery contracts! By the way Beazelbub why do you assume it is an A330? Not really important what AC it is!
But I am keeping both options open, and hoping there will be a day 1 at either one of them or maybe both! For sure with 500 hours on ANY type, would give me a better improved chance for option 2 anyway! It is just the thought of not having to pay own TR and getting a normal human pay, would be great!
It was just bad timing, that they both arrive at the same time!
30th Apr 2012, 09:10
Hi TF, a very pleasant dilemma indeed and youíre extremely fortunate to be in such a situation. I note from your age that youíre in your 40s so sincere congratulations and kudos to you for getting into such a dilemma, like you I am low hours career changer in my 40s but unlike you I donít have the dilemma that you have.
I am tempted to agree that the more solid option 1 is the better deal, a good mate of mine put my CV along with his recommendation in the right places at the regional TP operator that he works for and I heard nothing, despite the fact that they were recruiting and have recruited since. Iím sure that your friend means well (as my friend did) but unless he/ she works directly in the recruitment process then thereís only so much influence that they can exert.
Without knowing your personal situation (marriage, kids mortgage etc) itís difficult to offer any more advice. If you can live for a couple of years on option 1 pay after paying for rating and possibly having to move to a different area etc then I would go with that offer and perhaps approach your friend for a recommend when youíve got a couple of years and 1000 hrs plus under your belt.
If your friend is a true friend and an experienced pilot then I am sure that he/ she will understand.
The final choice can only be made by you as only you have all the details. I genuinely wish you all the best with whatever choice you make and itís truly good to see someone in their 4th decade getting a break.
You might want to check your PMs as Iím sure that your inbox is full of requests for details of the airlines involved in both options (not from me I hasten to add).
30th Apr 2012, 09:35
Agree with former posts in as much as you accept job offer 1, and pursue job possibility 2 with vigour.
One thing that springs to my mind though....you are paying the type rating, so no bond should be enacted (in an ideal world), and if a contract for job 1 is in place, i don't agree with paying up-front for the type rating, afterwards yes, but not before.
This industry is terrible sometimes, and unless it's a relatively "cheap" rating, i would be scanning the contract carefully to see what clauses they have to mitigate their risks and expose you to an increased risk on a financial level. May not be the case, but you have to be extremely cautious with these companies IMHO.