Mouldy Quarters at RAF Brize Norton.

[The other Mole]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s320x320/528506_264083357020402_100002562202956_496214_1707160987_n.j pg

This is the standard of RAF Brize Norton Quarters that the Serving personnel of this country have to live in. Modern Housing Solutions do nothing about this and quite frankly don't care. Whilst illegal immigrants get to live £2 Mil houses in London families of our Armed Forces personnel have to live in squaller, that I wouldn't put my dog into. Group Captain Stamp needs to get this sorted. It is making the wives and children who live in these conditions ill and is exacerbating existing conditions.
What happened to the nice new modern houses that were going to be built? Oh that's right a whole Stations worth of personnel were moved to Brize Norton without a proper plan in place for where they were going to live.
Group Captain Stamp needs to get the Prime Minister to live up to the pledges he made in regards to the Military Covenant. This is disgusting and needs to be highlighted to the rest of the country.

Sort it out. :mad:

[VinRouge]

Ever heard of a sponge and bleach? No different to the MQ I had at LYE.

[Art Field]

Hi Molie

It can be no consolation to you but when I took over a Quarter at Brize in 1985 we had the pleasure of garden flowers blooming in the lounge after their plants had grown in through the window frames. Regretably, nothing has changed.

[fantom]

Cannot agree; this is quite wrong and our people should be looked after better than this (seems).

Wives don't want the stress and husbands don't want the worry of the wives' stress.

Not R science, is it?

[NutLoose]

With Fantom on this, that is disgusting and should not be even offered in this day and age..

[PICKS135]

plenty of houses on the patch at Leuchars. Allegedly only 18 of 84 are lived in :eek::eek:

[Whenurhappy]

Problem is that the Stn Cdr has almost no influence over SFA - he now has no budget, no staff etc. He an make representations to DIO - and that's about it. Its the samne in most other support areas - personnel case work is centralised, pay enquiries centralised, works services regionalised...I could go one!

[NutLoose]

No longer a Station Commander, more a Station Manager.

[taxydual]

Why not complain to your local Member of Parliament.

What's his name again? David something or other.................

[VinRouge]

Sorry, dont mean to be brash but the comment one above is correct. There is no point in ranting at Brize Staish as I really doubt he has any control over this.

One would hope the savings identified in the last budget which ring-fenced spending for housing improvements will be targeted at MOBs and not at places with empty patches for conversion into social housing.

It is another nail in the coffin for many, alas, many of these issues were identified by a few juniors at Brize, standard response was "it will be sorted in time".

[MrBernoulli]

Ever heard of a sponge and bleach? No different to the MQ I had at LYE.
Which is like putting a plaster on a gunshot wound. Attempting to treat a symptom, inappropriately, and doing nothing about the underlying problem. Not exactly clever, is it?

[GlobalTravellerAT]

That is totally unacceptable and should be addressed asap. It makes me so frustrated that even when houses are in this sort of state, which I might add is well beyond totally unaccepatble, that the discussion of charging
Market rate still goes on. Write to your local MP, oh hang on............

[VinRouge]

The quarters are shagged. They were never meant to last this long and I bet the use of any cavity insulation isnt helping either.

The only real solution if that is the ground floor is pretty much demolition. Repairing the course would be pricy. Injected damp proof courses always seem to fail after a while.

I know its not perfect, but we minimized mildew growth by wiping down the walls and thin coating them in pure bleach, it did the job for the next few months.

[ArthurR]

Have to agree with Tom,
This is the standard of RAF Brize Norton Quarters that the Serving personnel of this country have to live in. Modern Housing Solutions do nothing about this and quite frankly don't care. Whilst illegal immigrants get to live £2 Mil houses in London families of our Armed Forces personnel have to live in squaller
Its about time we looked after our own, if the huggy fluffies want to give illegals, ect, good housing, benefits, ect. Let them pay for it.

[SRENNAPS]

31 Years ago on the 25 April 1981 I married a dental nurse from Brize Norton. It just so happened that I was also being posted to the newly formed Tornado world (much to my disgust). The only offer of a married quarter at BZN, after we got married, was a flat in Abingdon Road, until we got a MQ at Cottesmore. Normally this would not have happened as you needed to be at a Unit for at least 6 months to qualify for a quarter.
We very were pleased that we started off a married life under the same roof. Unfortunately the flat we took over was absolutely minging and i mean rancid. There was mold muck and dirt and even cats flees. We were told take it or leave it and if you take it you will need to bring it up to march out standard or be charged. We took it (so at least we could live together at weekends) and I went to Cottesmore while my new wife spent the first 3 months on her hand and knees scrubbing. We got £30 quid to clean it.

In those days a collocation posting was difficult to achieve and certainly not a right so my wife also had to leave the RAF if we were to start married life together.

I am not saying this is right and it was our choice, but **** happens and that is the way it was.

But the way I look at it is that it made us stronger and happier. Give me a shout if you can look back on 31 years of very happy marriage and a 30 year career in the RAF making do with what ever comes. Not that many here could boast the same I feel.

[Blue Bottle]

It's a good job those houses are rent free, there would be a national scandal if you had to pay rent, and as with the above post's there is nothing the Stn Cdr can do about it, apart from raise concern, as it's not part of his budget's, we all know it's about budget's and nothing else.

I am so sorry you support you country and it does not support you........ Please sort this out, our people deserve better

[Jollygreengiant64]

Look on the bright side- Free penicillin

[Always a Sapper]

Sad to say but that actually looks like an improvement on the MQ's at Brize. Certainly better than the one we moved into when I was there.

Mould, asbestos, wall panels not fixed to the frames (didn’t know about that one? One reason for the upgrades they did in 2001/2 was to fix the exterior panels to the steel frame so they couldn’t be removed by just lifting them) and the list could go on.

The only practical upgrade to the main housing stock in Cartoon town involves a D6 and lots of skips. Mind you, that could be said of the whole town but that's a whole different issue.

From a personal point of view, now they have knocked down a load of them the resultant open space is an improvement on the place and IMHO should remain as is with a bit of tidying up and landscaping, it would make a nice park that is located fairly central to the town.

New housing stock for the base should be included in the build plan currently running on the town’s outskirts.

[Ivan Rogov]

Not good, and regardless of what others may have accepted in the past it is not acceptable anymore!

The days of putting up and shutting up are over, as has been pointed out the RAF is not the landlord anymore and has little if anything to do with the process. Your landlord has a duty to provide a certain standard of accommodation, that looks substandard and I would expect alternative accommodation until the problem is rectified, not wiped away. There is a damp problem with potential health problems that needs rectifying,
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/pdf/Mould.pdf

First of all you must try and let the landlord fix the problem, see the complaints link
RAF Community - Guide to living in SFA (http://www.raf.mod.uk/community/accommodation/guidetolivinginsfa.cfm)
If the landlord doesn't take rapid action I would try the Station Welfare WO if you have one (they are excellent and worth their weight in gold :ok:), Citizens Advice, MP, local press, National Press, TV consumer rights programs, etc. You are not embarrassing the RAF or Forces, this situation was forced on them years ago.

Once the landlord has had a fair chance to fix the problem then you are quite right to highlight poor standards which should not be accepted anywhere in the UK, especially where your family are concerned! This isn't an issue covered by the OSA and you should not suffer any consequences for speaking up, quite the opposite as a member of the Forces you should feel an obligation to speak out in an attempt to improve the situation for others.

[Scuttled]

Concur with Ivan. Take "them" to task. Do not tolerate this. It is not good enough.

I'm getting so tired of this unrelenting drop in standards. If they are trying to drive us out, for this call sign it is working. I will not tolerate this if I am allocated this standard of housing on my next station of none choice.

I'll be off too. This is not the 1920s/1970s. So depressing.

[mini]

Welcome to life in the Military.

Now, are you going to ponce out with your nose in the air... or are you going to get stuck in and get on with it?

If you don't like it you can always rent locally...

On the bright side, at least the aircraft are maintained better... :ok:

[Ivan Rogov]

Mini, this is not part of the 'man the F*** up' rationale that we should accept as part of Military life. It is about your family living in reasonable accommodation, there is nothing in JSP 464 about complementary damp and mildew. There is however lots of talk about eroding the 'extras' we get for the burdens of Forces life, I would argue that trying to maintain or improve standards is equally as important a quality for anyone serving, don't forget any fool can be uncomfortable!

[sisemen]

when I took over a Quarter at Brize in 1985


....and when I took over a quarter at Brize in 1975 etc etc etc - and even then the problem was of long standing.

plus ca change, plus c'est la meme change

[Cows getting bigger]

Brize quarters have always been crap. I have a similar story where my new wife was in tears when she first saw what she had married into. As others have said, there is little the Stn Cdr can do as the whole thing is controlled by someone else (is it still DHE/Annington?) About the best he can do is attend the Hive and listen.

I find myself asking whether a benefit collecting sponger would accept, or even be offered, such rubbish.

[Whenurhappy]

A Note of caution to those calling for action...

Firstly if one is a regular occupant of SFA, one is NOT a tenant - instead the occupant has a 'license to occupy' and therefore the rights and obligations are different (considerably fewer 'rights') so before one stomps off to CAB, MP etc, check what one is 'entitled' to.

Secondly, are there any outstanding works requests with MHS? It would be most embarrassing to call for A Day of Rage just as a team of workers pitch up to rectify the problem...

Thirdly is this could attributable to an inherent fault in the property or a a result of poor ventilation/unvented clothes driers/long showers etc. In our own rental properties we had tenants complain of 'damp' yet the problem vanished when we moved into the properties ourselves and enured the ventilation fan was connected in the bathroom or a window was cracked open. And if it is thought that I am telling you how to suck eggs, most assuredly this is the response you will get!

Finally, complaining bitterly about this - posting on here, confronting clerks and housing officers and the like will only see the SP being hauled in front of the CoC - and ccounselled on his/her behaviour. Not saying that's right - just warning that it will happen. Edited to add that you will probably have the sympathy and support of the Stn. Cdr who can apply pressure, but doesn't own the problem. Don't jeopardize that support!

Just be careful what one asks for - and, yes, I do live in SFA!

[Tiger_mate]

This type of mould is invariably caused by a reluctance to ventilate a room that demands it; usually because of ineffective or costly heating needed to compensate 'letting the cold in' when the desired effect is 'letting moisture out'.

That the Stn Cdr has no direct influence on remedial action does not mean that he cannot apply pressure when a genuine complaint is staffed correctly and I would suggest immediate CoC in the first instance supported by photographic evidence. If this proves ineffective, the CoC are almost certain to share the frustration, although I have seen evidence of the contemporary Estates system being royally anal when a Chief Tech refused to accept a disasterous FMQ. SSAFA & Padres assistance is within the rights of everybody from the onset of the complaint as is a Regional Health Worker/Social Services if young children are at risk.

Once these avenues have proved inefective, that is the time to go nuclear with Press and MP letters. As has been suggested though, a reluctance to ventilate or correct with elbow grease could open up a world of hurt. The problem is that once mould has an appetite for a location, getting rid of it is a serious problem that usually involves industrial standard dehumidifiers and excess heating settings that demand windows being open, and the associated costs.

[blagger]

The MHS complaints procedure is very effective - get a complaint raised straight away against a job reference related to the mould and don't let them close down the complaint reference until its sorted. It knocks their KPIs and they are desperate to get complaints closed, I have used it to great effect a number of times.

[Captain Radar....]

It's a good job those houses are rent free, there would be a national scandal if you had to pay rent, and as with the above post's there is nothing the Stn Cdr can do about it, apart from raise concern, as it's not part of his budget's, we all know it's about budget's and nothing else.

I am so sorry you support you country and it does not support you........ Please sort this out, our people deserve better

I'm not sure whether Blue Bottle's comment is nicely saracastic and ironic or whether there is a true belief that SFA is rent free. Apologies if I have risen to a bait but if there is anyone out there who does believe that SFA is rent free trust me..........it is not!

[Chugalug2]

The RAF's chain of command only ever really extended up to unit and station level. Now it would seem it only goes as far as the former. Above that, as has already been pointed out, are merely varied levels of administration. Command means just that, the ability to get on a phone or drag into one's presence, bang heads together, and get things done. It is a fundamental requirement in a military organisation, the other side of the requirement to do one's duty to the point, if required, of paying the ultimate price. We all know that now as the Military Covenant, but long before it was just plain common sense. "Money, Mail, Meals", was an easier concept for JO's to grasp. Without that power of command, no matter how grand the title, "Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief" or whatever, he or she is not a commander. Not their fault simply fact, for you cannot expect to lead men and women to war without the ability to look after them when they or their loved ones need it. You might just as well hand it all over to Capita...oh, we already have? I didn't realise.

[Pontius Navigator]

The title should really have been:

Mouldy Quarters at RAF Stations

Tigermate says:

This type of mould is invariably caused by a reluctance to ventilate a room that demands it

But there is more to it than that. In my home of 30 years we open the window in the morning as do many in quarters. Unlike quarters we do not have mould. One reason is a huge extractor fan in the main bathroom with a humidity stat. It keeps the humidity down and usually comes on only after a bath rather than during a bath. In our shower room we also have an extractor fan; it has an overrun timer.

In the last MQ I was in this year the bathroom fan operated on the light switch and stopped as soon as the light was switched off. The toilet fans did have overrun timers. The drains however were block solid with soil and detrius from the roof and one with a tree in it. One bedroom is over the out buildings and the floor is uninsulated thus contributing to the mould. The kitchen cooker extractor didn't work.

The underlying problem is patchwork updates, inadequate insulation (who pays the fuel bills), inadequate ventilation provision (not failure to use the ventilation).

Now if rents were increased significantly (say £100-125/m) and fuel costs were met by MHS you could be sure there would be a rapid spend-to-save solution.

[Nomorefreetime]

Looking at the picture, it seems the wall has had a wardrobe or the like placed against it. I'm no expert but that will be breading ground for damp patches, the damp will have been caused by bad ventilation behind the furniture. The house I have recently purchased needed a new damp course throughout, one room had a large welsh dressser against a internal wall and it was the same as the picture, also seen it in other non mil houses.
Another scarey thought, the new patch they are building on the S***ton Road look very nice, but how many are going to be given up to social housing (10% plus). A new thread in a few years 'Can the Staish help sort out my noisy non service neighbours'

[sled dog]

When i moved into a MQ at Brize in 1970 everything was perfect :p Only stayed two years and then bought a house in Cirencester. Upon leaving the service departed UK and never looked back. Sympathy for those still there.

[Herc-u-lease]

Just be careful what one asks for - and, yes, I do live in SFA!

Whenurhappy, I thought you lived in a shed in a former soviet bloc country, or have you since moved back to UK MQs? Which is worse out of interest?

Well said Ivan :ok: This is not about 'life in the military' and MTFU. This is about being provided adequate service accn that is not a health hazard. This is your home for the period you are in MQs. For those that think we should 'get on with it' I agree there are times in the mil we need to man up and employ the can do attitude - this is not one of those occasions IMO.

We can be our country's best asset by being flexible, but we can also be our own worst enemies if we don't know when to say "enough is enough" and "i cannot do this." I seem to remember the safety officer in the Haddon-Cave report (Nimrod) had a can-do attitude when he probably shouldn't have.

this is your home and the health of your family; ask yourself if MTFU and carry on is appropriate in this situation? not in my MQ it's not.

H

[Uncle Ginsters]

Don't worry - i think i saw them installing Mould Generators in the new Belfast Square (now "Rectangle"?) Quarters the other day to maintain even standards across the board :}

[Whenurhappy]

Well, technically I'm in SSFA - an overseas hiring. And you think you've got problems with housing at Brize Norton? One of the problems is the attempted application of UK standard and the JSP abroad. But let's not hijack the thread!

[Willard Whyte]

I can still remember the crash of a picture falling off the wall in my Lyneham MQ. The picture nail had rusted through - after having been in place for around 6 months. After one particularly bad storm the inside wall was visibly wet.

We had a lovely big patch of mould on the bedroom ceiling too, several of the roof tiles were missing. 4 weeks after informing DHE I threatened to get a private building firm involved and charge the work to DHE, miraculously DHE fixed it the next day.

[1.3VStall]

The families' accommodation at BZN has been an absolute scandal for decades and I don't buy the "no-one can do anything about it" argument.

No-one has done anything about it because fast jet poling experience does not qualify their airships to address tricky morale issues, so they get put in the TFD box. It is much easier to publicly wring their hands about how many Typhoons the RAF should get.

The closure of LYE and the creation of a "super base" was the opportunity to sort out families' accommodation issues at BZN once and for all. The opportunity was ignored (there's a surprise!), so future generations of RAF families will continue to live in cr@p houses.

Our Servicemen (and women) desrve better!:ugh:

[Kitsune]

We all have the chance to vote on the performance of our local MP...

[muttywhitedog]

Finally, complaining bitterly about this - posting on here, confronting clerks and housing officers and the like will only see the SP being hauled in front of the CoC - and counselled on his/her behaviour. Not saying that's right - just warning that it will happen. Edited to add that you will probably have the sympathy and support of the Stn. Cdr who can apply pressure, but doesn't own the problem.

So what you are saying is that if there is something wrong with the FQ then the CoC are not able to get involved, but if you dare to make a fuss about it, then they will get involved?

[Kengineer-130]

A very sad reflection on the mentality of "superiors" when confronted with issues that even prisoners would not be made to live in :

"man up"
"get on with it"
" I had worse"

Sorry but it is an utter disgrace treating people like that, using fear of damage to careers to stop them complaining.

The way to sort it is report to the MO with stress, a few weeks off work would soon have the problem sorted. Not the correct way to do things, but nothing ever happens if you follow the correct route.

[NutLoose]

Or invite every newspaper and the likes of shelter to a house warming party

[High_Expect]

1.3VStall what year did you get chopped at Valley? Being a 'trucky mate' I'm surprised you haven't eaten that chip on your shoulder by now. ;-)

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

1.3VStall what year did you get chopped at Valley? Being a 'trucky mate' I'm surprised you haven't eaten that chip on your shoulder by now. ;-)

What part of his post did not ring true with you :confused:

[1.3VStall]

High Expect,

I'm certainly not a trucky mate - I'm far too talented for that!;)

[Whenurhappy]

BAck on to the thread:

Quote:
Finally, complaining bitterly about this - posting on here, confronting clerks and housing officers and the like will only see the SP being hauled in front of the CoC - and counselled on his/her behaviour. Not saying that's right - just warning that it will happen. Edited to add that you will probably have the sympathy and support of the Stn. Cdr who can apply pressure, but doesn't own the problem.
So what you are saying is that if there is something wrong with the FQ then the CoC are not able to get involved, but if you dare to make a fuss about it, then they will get involved?

No, I'm not saying that Mutley. What I am saying is don't p*ss off the people who are genuinely trying to help. We are in the situation that the single Services no longer have direct control over housing (subject to a separate Thread it its own right, I might argue) as it is largely vested in the Defence Infrastructure Organisation. I am sure that the Stn Cdr (or his staff) is aware of this problem, and many others like it (and probably other welfare issues that are far, far worse) and will address the issue as best he can - to DIO and through them, to MHS. There are other mechanisms if local liaison doesn't work, but I think that going global on this matter may not help the situation.

On a related issue, we have lived in a fair few quarters, hirings, SSFA &c over the years in the UK and in a number of overseas locations. I have been surprised by the attitude of some SP who won't lift a finger to fix anything - tighten loose door knobs, replace a fuse, adjust a dripping cistern, for example. None of it is rocket science - and most SP would happily do it in their own houses but seem to think that this is beyond them when they are in SFA!

WP

[Pontius Navigator]

I have been surprised by the attitude of some SP who won't lift a finger to fix anything - tighten loose door knobs, replace a fuse, adjust a dripping cistern, for example. None of it is rocket science - and most SP would happily do it in their own houses but seem to think that this is beyond them when they are in SFA!

This is an issue faced by many orderly officers of a weekend or even overnight duty. On the one hand they are told never to call out the duty DHE man and the other they are being pressed by the irrate quarter dweller over blocked toilets etc.

While I had every sympathy (well a little) I always asked if they would call out Dynarod or whoever in the middle of the night.

Admittedly a home owner will have lots more DIY kit to hand. However one SiL will change kitchen doors and even install a powershower to turn a quarter into a home.

[glojo]

Ventilation, ventilation and finally ventilation...

Looking at that awful picture I would respectfully suggest there is not a major issue with damp as the plaster is not too bad!! The black mould, fungicide etc is an embarrassment and I would be taking my butler to one side and suggest he fires the current cleaning staff, I would then ensure those he does employ clean those walls immediately! :ouch:;)

Dependent on age of the property might I suggest that if there was a major problem with damp then would the plaster be coming away from the wall or the plasterboard falling to pieces?

Have you checked these (http://www.onlinetips.org/ventilation-bricks)? (ventilation bricks)

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/1692308/2/stock-photo-1692308-brick-wall-with-ventilation-block.jpg

That would be my first port of call particularly if the property is over ten years old... Make sure spiders have not blocked the holes or any other type of creepy crawly, ensure there are no obstructions blocking them or soil built up over the ventilation area.

If they are in a good state of repair then does the double glazing have any type of ventilation slots? I am NOT suggesting you open windows in the middle of winter but all houses need the air to circulate.

My worry would be that you have a gas type fire in that room and inadequate ventilation.. Please note I am NOT saying you have, I am simply saying I would be concerned if you have as that mould indicates poor ventilation and poor ventilation along with gas fires are not conducive to long term living ;)

[proplover]

My simple take on it is - that sort of environment is simply not healthy for wives and children. It boders on slum accomodation. Would the PM or any of our 'caring' MPs house the wife and kids in there? Not effing likely. If you tried to house immigrants in there the whole housing issue would be headlines because they would complain!

The bloke who said about moving another stations personel to Brize without a plan was spot on, the MOD cant even look after those based at Brize - its a national disgrace.

[Pontius Navigator]

glojo, we had ventilation in our first quarter. In the loft was a hole perhaps 3 inches in diameter. Outside the first bit of land was America. In the bedroom the plaster had a little bit of gypsum foam and was making advances towards the bed on the other side of the room.

A seagull lived in the kitchen cavity wall and used to watch Mrs PN through the hole.

The exterior of the house had been painted only the painters had neglected to open the windows before painting them. A later occupant solved the ventilation problem by bending the metal frame. We sealed it with a rolled up copy of an entire Sunday Times. The PSA man who came to fix it on the day we marched out was clumsy and broke the glass.

We had mould up the entire stairway but that was due to inadequate ventilation even though the washing machine and tumble drier in the cloakroom was vented through an open window.

It was ever thus.

[Whenurhappy]

DHE haven't existed for almost 10 years, but moving on...

It is difficult to balance a call-out on a weekend. A blocked toilet would meet the criteria, as would the loss of hot water! But as an SDO I received loads of spurious calls for 'works services' after hours or weekends and tried to put myself in their situation. Correct me if I am wrong, but MHS now manages a call centre to handle enquiries directly, generally not involving the OO.

When I worked at Lyneham many moons ago, I had an upstairs office and could see agrieved spouses, generally pushing a pram like a bulldozer across the car park, heading towards my building to complain to the staff about something to do with their quarter. I generally had time to call downstairs to get the kettle on and get the spouse into my office. Yes - they would have complaints about damp/smells/tripping CBs, whatever, but often there were bigger issues - money, hubby away (again), sick kids...you name it. Often they wanted someone to vent off at and also someone to listen to their frustrations. A cup of tea often worked wonders (mainly for me!). In those days I had a budget and staff - and the flexibility as a Flt Lt to do something about it. I could also call across to the SP or his Flt Cdr to have a gentle chat if this was warranted. It was also very satisfying to resolve seemingly complex situations with a little common sense. These weren't halcyon days, but the chain of responsibility was a lot, lot shorter than it is now - and quite clear. My OC SSS at the time - from whom I took a lot of useful lessons - is still in the housing business - as Master of the Royal Houshold, No 1, Mall London.

[Tinribs]

Back in the 60's we had coke stoves in married quarters

Mostly they smoked, no servicing for years and seals had perished

Repeated complaints produced instructions to stop,being silly and no other action, a family found the dog dead in the kitchen one morning. PM showed carbon monoxide poisening.

We all threatened to contact the press and local council to have houses condemned

Boilers fixed

[sisemen]

The problem with Brize is that having taken the base back from the Americans in order to make it the RAF strategic transport base a vast amount of building was needed. Not only Base Hangar and all the rest of the infrastructure but also housing.

In the late 60s pre-fabricated concrete "tilt-up" slabs were the architectural flavour of the month. Couple that with contractors always anxious to make a quid and do the cheapest job possible in the ridiculously short time allowed by MOD and you have a recipe for decades of disaster.

When I went into MQ in the mid 70s the housing had been up for almost 10 years and it was really ready to be bulldozed and something more substantial and appropriate put up in its place. However.....

So, 40 years since they were put up the accommodation has problems...so no surprises there then.

And the VC10s are still there, and Gateway, and Base Hangar...

[FantomZorbin]

Might a trip to the Environmental Health people at the Council with a sample of the mould be in order. The HSE can be useful at times:E

[Pontius Navigator]

There will be an environmental health technician in the medical centre at Brize. Try them first.

WUH, I know but it were MPBW or DOE or PSA or DHE or whatever in my day. I certainly had no criteria whatever to permit a callout. Operational buildings only!

[Willard Whyte]

DHE haven't existed for almost 10 years, but moving on...

I know. The events I described happened before 2000. ****ing problem with that?

[cornish-stormrider]

Circumvent the whole shooting match and go straight to the HSE.

Pilot gets sick from mould - MTFU and soldiers into work. - Has an Episode on something like short finals and plows in.......

Bad enough? This is the 21st century, and serving forces members and their families have a right not to be housed in squalor, Should singlies have to live in barrack blocks with rats?

I agree you should treat your quarter like you owned it and look after it as best as you can - guess what, thats the same as us tenants in the real world too.

Does the RAF think things like annual gas safety checks are optional?
Do they do regular electrical checks?

I know it is those thieving b*****ds at Annington or whoever stole it from them.

The RAF could make a much bigger fuss and look after their troops - or like most managers they could do a somebody else's problem.

I remember an old lesson - flight safety is EVERYONE's RESPONSIBILITY.

if you don't think flight safety is your job, do the RAF and everyone else a favour and hit the eject button on JPA.

[FantomZorbin]

cornish-stormrider

Nail-head-hammer! Spot on:D

[A2QFI]

"Should singlies have to live in barrack blocks with rats?"

No - they shouldn't but I wouldn't be surprised if they do!

[NutLoose]

In the late 70's it took them a year to replace the window in my room that was smashed and holed, lower and upper frame were bonded to the glass, finally got it replaced when I put in a gen app for substandard accommodation. Must of cost them a fortune, I worked on the principal if you cannot fix my window, then you can heat it instead, I had a fan heater running 24 / 7 for that year. One of the blocks the "fish bowl" type light shades would fill with water when it rained.. And we were on the ground floor!

I remember at Saints on my course in the 70's some poor kid in quarters running down the stairs tripped and went straight through a glass door at the bottom :oh: requiring major stitches, :sad:....... It was then the RAF found that the builders had fitted plain glass in them and not toughened..... They were all replaced, but not exactly of use to that poor kid.

[Whenurhappy]

WW - I know you are upset for a variety of reasons, but no need yo get offensive about it:).

If SP are planning to complain, it doesn't help their credibility if the spout duff gen, that's all

[Kitsune]

Makes one wonder if the Tory losses in Cameronshire had anything to do with his myopic view of the Military Covenant...:cool:

[NutLoose]

I thought that two, moving the staff from Lynham in as well must add up to several thousand disgruntled voters.

[Jabba_TG12]

Twas ever thus, I'm afraid. I'm not saying you should put up with it, you shouldnt. Make as much noise as you can and I hope it gets some sort of results. However, I wouldnt expect quick progress.

Its not right and accom like this was one of the motivators behind my PVR in 99. Not much the Staish can do about it. The blame lies much much further up the chain than that. And those that made the decision are now in the House Of Lords and couldnt give a flying one any more now than they did do then.

[mickey dee]

Either our average breaking points happen to coincide with the exact length of the waiting lists for repairs or they only ever have the assets / bother to fix the items being made the most noise about.
After several reports and lots of chasing them up my final report on the leak dripping through my ceiling went along with a jam jar of the brown smelly ‘water’ that had been dripping for months. I requested it be tested and asked for copies of the results so I could know if it was rusty water or something worse (there was a toilet and shower room above). The repair team turned up within the week but they never sent any test results so I still don’t know what was dripping all that time!
I would actually have more respect if I thought the waiting list was dealt with on a proper priority system but it seems it’s just he who shouts loudest.:ugh:

[Pontius Navigator]

MD, there was certainly an effective priority system in Cyprus. A totally blocked drain was fixed in a couple of hours.

At Halton child safety features were fixed within the day. A cooker hood took less than a week. However there is little effective proactive maintenance. Wait until the gutter falls down; wait until some complains of the tree growing up through the drain.

At Cranditz however, with no children in the qtr, a broken drain cover in the garden was never fixed.

A key feature as well as shouting loudest is having someone on hand to open the quarter - not easy if both are serving.

[NutLoose]

Now if you had a floating Duck House in your pond that might get priority repairs..

[sharpend]

When I married in 1970 (yes, I am old), I was posted to RAF Church Fenton where there was absolutely no accommodation, not even hirings. Not even mouldy ones.

I sold my sports car (my only possession) and bought a new house for £4100 (that is not a misprint). Needless to say I have always lived in my own houses and made considerable amount of money selling them when posted.

However, I hear times have now changed and property does not appreciate much, at present. But they will in the long run.

But there is always a flip side. New houses are now cheap; builders will even fiddle the deposit for you. So are interest rates. If you are posted & cannot sell at a good price, then let the house out. There is a big market for letting. You will always be able to let your house, especially near a large military base.

My ex father in law made a fortune on buying on posting & never selling when posted subsequently, quote 'never sell a brick'. You can do that too. If you wish.

Ok, maybe you will tell me... 'Derek get real'... Back in 1970 we had nothing, but accommodation was the priority. If you want nice holidays, flash cars, iPads etc, that is up to you. But my top priority back in 1970 was a modern clean home for my wife and I.

Stands back and waits for comments :p

[Runaway Gun]

I wish I owned a £150,000 sports car that I could sell.

[sharpend]

Silly... I used the money to pay for the deposit, not buy the whole house. Unlike today, we had to find our own deposit. Interestingly, the monthly mortgage was less than the quarters rent!

Property will always be your best investment ... in the long run. Even when you retire or the kids have flown, you can downsize and buy back that sportscar :)

[VinRouge]

If you want to see what will happen to prices over the net decade, look over to Japan who had the same banking bust 20 years ago. Most Housing is still valued at less in nominal terms than it did in 1990 over there. They have had record low rates now for 20 years.

Yes, there is money to be made from rental, but unfortunately the boomer generation killed the goose that laid the golden egg through excessive greed and voting in those politicians who chose to support policies and regulation that saw a trebling of prices in under 10 years.

And look at the mess that has now gotten us in!

[BEagle]

The greed of the speculators and mortgage mafia led directly to the years of boom and bust. Chiselling little $hits in red braces and shiny suits would turn up in their black BMWs, spend 30 sec 'pricing' a house way above its value, safe in the knowledge that they'd snouted up a percentage for themselves....and would soon be able to afford that symbol of 1980's yuppytime excess, the Porsche 911.

A 2-bedroom semi in Witney cost £34K in 1984; according to the inflation calculator, that should now cost £94K. But the true figure is well over twice that.

Blunty Towers, at £4100 in 1970, would nowadays cost £53177 if house prices hadn't been so ridiculously distorted by Thatcher-greed.

Those wretched, greedy estate agents who encouraged house prices to grow at twice the rate of inflation whilst most salaries increased only at the same rate as inflation, are probably the chief cause of the UK's current financial situation.

[VinRouge]

What do you expect from a job that legally requires no professional training? Yet estate agents are often responsible for valuing the most expensive investment o our lives. Combined with moral hazard that saw bank profits rise with larger mortgages and mortgage backed investments that allowed wanton increases in secured debt, and very lax regulation pushed by ed balls and brown, it was a disaster waiting to happen and one predicted by the more conservative of us.

[sharpend]

Ah ha, I thought that my comment would generate more than just a few lines about mould in MQs ;)

Of course, one should never borrow more than one can repay. But greedy bankers twisted our arms to do just that, then winged to HMG to bail them out when their customers fell on bad times.

But there are always silver linings.

1. Houses have never been so affordable nor so easy to purchase. But they will not always be.

2. Quarters in general have never been in such bad condition, nor so different from a modern newly built house. Hence, the new build is vastly prefered.

3. A career in the armed forces is no longer a job for life. You will need to find your own accommodation eventually. The sooner you do it the better.

[BEagle]

A career in the armed forces is no longer a job for life. You will need to find your own accommodation eventually. The sooner you do it the better.

You're not wrong there, Blunty old bean!

[Pontius Navigator]

Son-in-law, newly commissioned, near two senior officers discussing the need to buy a house as their career end was approaching: "This is something you will need to consider."

"I already have a house Sir, well two actually"

[goudie]

With regard to the BZN MQ's we were unfortunate enough to live in one for 18 months. That was 40 odd years ago and I'm not surprised they have deteriorated, as they apparantly have.

Beagle is spot on re. Estate Agents and developers. There was lots of prime building land available around Carterton in the early '70s. Builders were buying out the smallholdings dotted around the place but, have got planning permission to build, they just sat tight and waited for the inevitable price rise that a housing shortage would bring. Gazumping was rife and Estate Agents were taking deposits on the strength of an 'artist impression' ie I put down £150 deposit on a house yet to be built, priced at £5100. Nine months later it was finally released for sale, though not yet built, at £11500! It was way beyond my means but I eventually managed to buy a modest semi for £7500. The next phase of identical houses, released 3 weeks later, were priced at £8500 and guys queued all night down in Witney hoping to buy one. On the strength of this situation I believe a law was passed requiring Builders to build within six months of obtaining planning permission.

[Pontius Navigator]

to build within six months of obtaining planning permission with the inevitable get out of jail free clause.

Down the road from us a plot of land between two roads was sold to the church for a new vicarage. They built on half the length but grabbed the better wider half. The other half of land was put up for sale for £45k. It was unused for at least 15 years. Eventually a 3-bed house was put in the site, facing sideways, on the market for £349k. It is now worth £249k.

[NutLoose]

I can remember a JT at Brize struggled to get a mortgage and deposit together and find a house, asked the then PMC if there was any chance in the slightest of him being posted within the next year... PMC responded no.... House bought and less than six weeks later he was on his way to his new posting to St Athans and not a happy Chappie

[Pontius Navigator]

NL, nothing changes.

First tour, marrieds were told the rumour about the station closing were false go ahead buy a house. Many did and the station closed.

It was either a 'real' secret to confuse the Russians or a change of policy to change a bolthole into a permanent move. That Cottesmore was a 2-sqn station and we were a 3-sqn one didn't figure. The mess had about 30 rooms and needed about 60.

[goudie]

I believe it was always a good sign a Station was closing when, the runway was lengthened, and general improvements were made all round.

[Samuel]

SRENNAPSGive me a shout if you can look back on 31 years of very happy marriage and a 30 year career in the RAF making do with what ever comes. Not that many here could boast the same I feel.

:D I'm not letting that slip past unchallenged! Not quite a 30 year career,[25] but as of D-Day the 6th of June I, that is we, celebrated 42 years of happy marriage, though perhaps the only time we were ever in Service MQs was in this little pad in Singapore!

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e33/Shadblat/KenyaCrescent.jpg

[acmech1954]

I have proof that the PMC of old had one serious sense of humour, it did not happen to me but to a guy that arrived at Lossie the same day as me.

He and his wife(a WRAF) decided that it was time to buy a house, started looking around at properties in their price range. They decided that as he had already been at the station for some time that they would check with Handbrake House and PMC trade desks, if he (or she) were on any lists for posting off station, in the foreseeable future, the answer was NO.
So off they went ,found a place and started the process of buying. Come the day of exchanging contracts he had gone into work that morning and asked his Chief for an hour off to go and sign all the paper work, it was agreed and off he went, 1 hour later he was back, as he walked through the door he was told that Sengo wanted to see him.

They never moved into that house, just put it straight back on the market

[Pontius Navigator]

Samuel,

nah, 48 years service, 40 years marriage, one quarter, two houses :)

PN

[goudie]

Blimey PN that's what I would call a settled life.
I was in the RAF for the first 15 years of our 53 years of marrige, during which, we lived in a mixture of 12 MQ's and Hirings in the UK and O/seas.

When we moved into our present house, our 15th abode, we said 'that's it'. We've lived here for the last 34 years!

[Whenurhappy]

Samuel,

That photo brings back memroies. Probably a few years after you, I looked after a rather nice quarter at 115 King's Avenue, overlooking Sebawang.

[Samuel]

Those houses came with a bit of history! Built for senior RN Officers before the war and occupied by Japanese during it! Then when the Brits left they were taken over by the NZ part of ANZUK. Very comfortable. Prior to being allocated that one, I had an ex-RAF MQ at 12 Hyde Park Gate at Seletar!

[Whenurhappy]

I was there for a short time just after the NZ Inf Bn and the Hueys left. Work was being done in the kitchen area and a Japanese poster, encouraging the locals to assit the Japanese, was found down the back of the larder - the house had been occupied by senior Japanese during the war!

[tarbaby]

And a good house 12 Hyde Park Gate was in the late nineties. Alas I do not think it is there anymore. Sg govt seems to think industrialization and dual carriageways are the way forward for Seletar.

[Pontius Navigator]

Mould! What about mushrooms? Miss PN found mushrooms in her kitchen and cloakroom. She is second in priority for fixing as one of the AMQ had a ceiling collapse.

Not BZN but not a hundred miles away.

[Al R]

Sharp End:

Ah ha, I thought that my comment would generate more than just a few lines about mould in MQs http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif

Of course, one should never borrow more than one can repay. But greedy bankers twisted our arms to do just that, then winged to HMG to bail them out when their customers fell on bad times.

But there are always silver linings.

1. Houses have never been so affordable nor so easy to purchase. But they will not always be.



Vin Rouge was correct - baby boomers over heated things. What you are doing, with respect, is advocating why prices rose so quickly and so artificially. Someone in their early/mid 20s these days have a different, far harsher climate to buy into.

New homes are not 'more affordable' because income hasn't gone up and the prices haven't dropped any further. However, very recently, new subsidies and underwriting possibilities make them attractive for key workers. Thankfully, New Buy and SPACES are steps in the right direction.

NewBuy - Housing - Department for Communities and Local Government (http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/homeownership/newbuy/)


Ministry of Defence | Defence For... | The Service Community | Housing | Joint Service Housing Advice Office (JSHAO) (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceFor/ServiceCommunity/Housing/)


Home (http://www.spaces.org.uk/spaces/spaces/)

Finally, its easy to blame bankers (I'm not an apologist for them at all - I despise their personal greed and incompetence as much as I despise the state spendthrift mentality that got us in this pickle). But who shoulders the blame for simply forgeting the basics about financial common sense, and simply spending for today and not saving or investing for tomorrow?

[goudie]

“‘My other piece of advice, Copperfield,’ said Mr. Micawber, ‘you know. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery.”
David Copperfield (1850)

[Pontius Navigator]

But who shoulders the blame for simply forgeting the basics about financial common sense, and simply spending for today and not saving or investing for tomorrow?

I think you want us to say 'we do'.

But is that true?

After a struggle with the building society I was eventually able to arrange a mortgage where I had a 15% deposit and my borrowing was about equal to my pay 1:1. The struggle was two way: a struggle to get the mortgage and a struggle to pay the mortgage.

Who drove up prices? Greedy builders? Greedy home sellers? Or building societies and bankers making loads easy?

If loans had remained tight then sellers could not up their prices and only those that saved could raise the deposit and then repay the loan.

May be it was us but collectively who was prepared to say I will save for my house and buy when I can afford it while watching prices increase daily?

I recall in 1990 that my house was earning more in a month than I was.

[Al R]

I was being general.. there were some bankers who remained conservative and diligent as well, just as there were private savers who did do all the right things. I wasn't suggesting that any one part of the formula was 'wrong' in its own right; rather, each part of this troika (state/banks/borrowers) had faults which together massively added to the problems of parts of the others which didn't.