Coventry Cathedral Belvedere footage

[Krystal n chips]

The link will expire in about 11 hrs, however, last night's BBC Midlands Today carried a short piece about the lifting of the spire....some interesting footage from the time.

Starts at about 15mins 15 secs in..........

BBC iPlayer - Midlands Today: 27/04/2012 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01gk6hf/Midlands_Today_27_04_2012/)

[Tiger_mate]

Pathe news archives are your friend.
If I knew how to 'copy' on iPad, I would provide a link!

[ShyTorque]

I was lucky enough to have had a conversation with Wg Cdr John Dowling when he visited RAF Shawbury in the late 70s. He told me about this job (I hadn't heard of it before). A good job well done!

He also told me about the engine start procedure for the Belvedere. The engines were fitted one at each end of the airframe, unlike the Chinook which has both at the rear. They had AVPIN starters and either correctly went "Whoosh!" or incorrectly went "Pause..........BANG!"

There was armour plate behind the pilot's seat to protect him from an exploding starter unit. Some pilots apparently refused to strap in for the front engine start, some even sat with their right leg over the window sill - in order to jump out and run away if needed, i.e. if the "Pause......" occurred.

[Old-Duffer]

Very interesting few posts.

John Dowling departed the coil in about 2000 but he had two other pilots with him: a chap called Jim Martin, who IIRC went to Australia and is also dead and another chap who lives just outside Salisbury. One pilot handled the cyclic, one the collective and the third the load, whilst giving commentary.

Dowling describes the Coventry cathedral task in his book "RAF Helicopters" and it is an interesting tale.

Unfortuantely, in later years, Coventry was blessed with a pacifist bishop - nothing wrong with that per se - but he did describe on prime time TV how the crews of Bomber Command were mass murderers and he refused to allow military commemorations in the cathedral. I wrote to him reminding him that he owed his very life and freedom to those same crews and invited him to take note of certain facts of life. His response was to decline to engage with me on the issue as - and I quote - 'I have more important things to deal with'. This may explain why you used to find scant reference as to how the spire and its fleish got where they are, if you visited the cathedral.

Old Duffer

[Fareastdriver]

They used middle distance line features and buildings as hover references. You would position one part of a building against somewhere else and keep it there. It was never taught; I was told about it by another Belvedere pilot. I found it very useful superimposing bits of platforms against other bits when changing crane engines.

Experienced Belvedere pilots kept the ladder against the cockpit until the front engine had started. Very experienced Belvedere pilots sat on the ladder and pressed the button.

[oldbeefer]

Was also entertaining (I've been told) when the drive shaft linking front to back broke - OK in fwd flight with the discs flapped fwd, but tricky to slow down unless you were very lucky as the two tip paths crossed!

[WhiteOvies]

Having been born and raised in Coventry I never knew that the spire was courtesy of the RAF. I guess back then there was no such thing as commercial heavy lift helos so the Belvedere was the only option.

Old Duffer - As my grandfather flew Lancs for Bombrr Command I'm disappointed in the Bishop's comment but not that surprised. At least they have a memorial now.

[Old-Duffer]

During start up at Seletar one day in the '60s, the front engine went bang and a fire started. The starter crew told the pilot - who already knew and whose words went something along the lines of 'never mind the fire extinguishers, where's the f*&^king ladder'. This uttered shortly before leaping 8 feet 4 inches to the ground.

What happened next was the source of bar talk for long afterwards and is probably best told by Tankertrashnav - who I think was there at the time. Apparently, when a foam tender got its stuff going, another tender came up and stopped on the hose! Also, an RAF policeman stopped an airman with a landrover full of extinguishers from trying to help because 'there's a fire down there' or some such. Dowling's book contains some photos of the aftermath or a similar one.

Apparently, I'm told the Belvedere stood so high off the ground because the original idea was to be able to sling a torpedo underneath - sounds dodgy to me but could be true.

Old Duffer

[BEagle]

I remember seeing the Belvedere Coventry cathedral operation on TV at the time - they made it look effortless even though it was an extremely tense 45 minutes of flying.

My UAS QFI flew the 'Mixmaster bilong suicide' and wasn't too fond of it...:\

Of course the joys of Airfix allowed me to recreate this in 1/72 scale:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/192.jpg

And yes, a navalised torpedo-carrying version was indeed proposed, but later cancelled.

In the late 1950s, this Dinky Toys model of the Bristol 173 was always popular with air-minded lads in short trousers:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/173.jpg

2/11 back in 1956 and about £70 these days, I see!

[Fareastdriver]

a navalised torpedo-carrying version was indeed proposed,

It wasn't proposed; that's what it started its military life as. The Navy then decided it would not go down their lifts so they cancelled it.
The RAF then had their prefered Westminster cancelled and were lunbered with the Bevelgear.

[Tankertrashnav]

What happened next was the source of bar talk for long afterwards and is probably best told by Tankertrashnav - who I think was there at the time. Apparently, when a foam tender got its stuff going, another tender came up and stopped on the hose!


Actually it happened not long before I took over as fire officer at Seletar, but some of the blokes in my flight had witnessed the incident and the events are pretty much as Old duffer describes. All I can say is that I was mightily pleased that it didn't happen when I was SFO!

Re keeping the ladder against the door - I did see the report of an incident of an engine start-up fire which we attended. In the "injuries" section the only entry was "pilot broke ankle jumping out of aircraft"!

[LowObservable]

Interesting Bristol tandem history here:

Bristol Helicopters (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2872.0.html)

[Windy Militant]

There's a very brief clip of the Belvedere at Coventry Catherdral in the episode of Climbing Great buildings filmed at the Cathedral.

'Coventry Cathedral' is on at 9.30am on Sunday 13th May on Blighty for those in the UK

[Warmtoast]

Wing Commander John Dowling (of Coventry Cathedral fame)

What a coincidence! John Dowling’s daughter recently joined my wife’s group that clean our local church. She didn’t know I was ex-R.A.F. until my wife mentioned it to her. She then revealed that she was John’s daughter and that he was involved with the introduction of helicopters into the R.A.F and his particular claim to fame was as the pilot of the Belvedere that placed the spire and sculpture on Coventry Cathedral in April 1962.

More about him here from his DT obituary:
Wing Commander John Dowling - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1350613/Wing-Commander-John-Dowling.html)

Anne, John’s widow is still with us, 89-years old and physically rather frail, but mentally as bright as a button. She had tea with us two weeks ago and had fond memories of her and John’s time in the Far East at Seletar.

Some photos from John’s album: Copies of copies so not particularly clear, but passed on FWIW.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/John%20Dowling/Image2.jpg

The Coventry Cathedral team:
L to R: Flt Lt J Martin, Wg Cdr John Dowling, Flt Lt R Salt.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/John%20Dowling/Image8.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/John%20Dowling/Image1.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/John%20Dowling/Image3.jpg

The Spire and Sculpture are lowered onto the cathedral.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/John%20Dowling/Image7.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/John%20Dowling/Image6.jpg

Rehearsals at Odiham

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/John%20Dowling/Image14.jpg

66 Sqn at Seletar

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/John%20Dowling/Rehearsalforthe1961SBACShow-Farnborough1961.jpg

The pre-production Belvedere about to come to an untimely end whilst rehearsing for the 1961 SBAC Show at Farnborough.

And finally John in his later years:

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/John%20Dowling/Image15.jpg

[Old-Duffer]

John Dowling could be described as a man of firm views and a forthright manner – there are other ways of describing him, with which I shall not trouble the reader. There are also stories about him, some true, others apocryphal and occasionally downright nonsense.

The one I like has, as they say given the current state of the services, a certain resonance. Remembering that he was MBE, DFC and bar, AFC, it was some surprise when he received a letter telling him he was to be made redundant. After he had been coaxed off the ceiling and calmed down, he is said to have penned something along the following lines.

‘At the conclusion of my first operational tour, I was honoured to be awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross and 8 years later, was equally honoured to be awarded a Bar to this decoration. Immediately following this latter award, my work in the development of rotary winged aircraft in the Royal Air Force was recognised by the award of the MBE and latterly the Air Force Cross.

Please may I be advised as to what actions I need to take to secure my continued service in the RAF?’

Legend has it that not long afterwards and with the redundancy withdrawn, he became a wing commander, with seniority on 1 January 1964. He retired from the RAF in July 1978, shortly after his 55th birthday and sadly died in, IIRC mid 2000.

Old Duffer

[Fareastdriver]

Somebody told me, I don't know if it was true, the reason for the Belevdere going head over arse at Farnborough.
Apparantly it was loaded with troops (Gurkas?) for a demo heli assault. Being a development version there were no seats or belts in the cabin.


The aircraft flared for the landing and everybody slid down the back.

[Argonautical]

From the web, some more about the crash :-

A Belvedere at the Farnborough Air Display carrying soldiers of 3 Para, fell out of the sky from about 50 ft. with a few serious injuries, but luckily no deaths. Made the headlines in the press.

[willjones]

Now feeling only slightly deflated after reading the Coventry 'chopper job' posts. My grandmother had mentioned my uncle as the pilot: W Cdr Peter Berry DFC - who was at Odiham during that period - maybe he had flu that day....! Or maybe something or nothing. He was probably best known as the Loch Ness? Wellington pilot who later advised on the restoration, but had been to many GB, Germany , and USA postings over his career. His sister Stella, my mum, also was in RAF WW2, first in Radlett Control Centre (undergrd BofB type place?), then went back to Chivenor where she once said they were on repairing planes - but she has said little about it so 'fraid cant add more. But if anyone needs crucial info on all that, msge me and I'll ask her.
Will Jones

[beerdrinker]

My dad was involved with this op when he was at 38 Group at Odiham. The op was called (if my memory is correct) Camel Eye.

[NutLoose]

Film of the Seletar formation

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Drrtsk8-oXBA&v=rrtsk8-oXBA&gl=GB)

I was also told of the troops sliding down the back by the late Arthur Mitchell.

[green granite]

At least he did a better job than these guys (http://www.autorotate.org/portal/PilotInterests/Videos/VideoPlayer/TabId/501/VideoId/1/Helicopter-Crashes-Into-Bridge.aspx):

[Herod]

A tad insensitive, considering this was a fatal.