Advice for a future airline pilot

[Flyer-Katanic]

Hey everyone,

I find this site really interesting and lot of information about flying, airlines, selection process and etc, so I decided to sign up and ask a few questions.

Just a little bit of back round info on me, I'm 19 and I live in Toronto Canada I have a PPL and I am returning to my home country, Serbia this summer to finish my pilot license (CPL & ATPL) at Prince Aviation, and work up my hours to 1000 (Hopefully haha). Hopefully when I have enough hours I want to hopefully fly for a Middle - Eastern airline company such as Emirates, Fly Dubai, Qatar Airways, and Etihad airways.

Just have a few questions for some professionals to answer and give me useful advice.

What's a good way to build up fly time hours ?

I was checking on the websites for Etihad Airways and it states "A minimum of 1000 hours on multi crew,glass cockpit jet aircraft of which 500 hours should be on one of the A320 Family and Current on one of the A320 Family" Can someone elaborate on that please ?

]I am really confused and do not no what to do after I finish and obtain my CPL, ATPL and all other add ons that are needed in order to fly for an Airline.

These are the links that I have been reading

FLyDubai
Pilots - work with us - flydubai (http://www.flydubai.com/english/work-with-us/pilots.aspx)

Etihad Airways
Job Search (http://careers.etihadairways.com/ehire/English/Flightjob.aspx)

Emirates
</title> <meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en-GB" /> <meta name="myLanguageType" content="englishUTF8" /> <meta name="Copyright" content="© 2012 The Emirates Group. All Rights Reserved." /> <meta name="Section" content=""></meta> <meta nam (http://www.emiratesgroupcareers.com/english/Careers_Overview/Pilot_Jobs/Minimum_Requirements.aspx)

Thank you for reading this and please any advice is appreciated! :)

[Diego767]

Hi, my name is Diego and I want to be a professional pilot when I graduate from high school. I'm a junior in high school and I hope to start my training next year. I love aviation and I can't wait to start my training. However, during the last few weeks, I've been doing some research about this career to see if it's worth it. It seems like it is not and I think that I will have to chnage my career, and probably become an aerospace engineer. Before doing this research, I used to say this to myself "i would love to become an airlinr pilot even if the pay is not that good because i love flying!"

This shows my determination, and that's great!! But thinking realistically, we all want to have a good paying job, because that is going to be our main income in our life. Having a job of an airline pilot is different to leisure time and having fun. In leisure time activities, or doing something to get pleasure out of, you wont care if you're being rewarded or not, you just want to have fun. Flying for the pleasure, for example.

In the US, the regional airlines pay you little and you have to work close to 16 hours a day. In addition, you have to pay a lot (more than 100,000 dollars) to obtain your licenses and then when you start working for the regionals, you earn $ 20,000 a year.

So after doing this research, I decided to study something else (aerospace engineering) first, then earn some money and start my training later on. After planning my future, I realized that I might start my training at the age of 30 or 33.

So, my question is, should I follow this route, or should I follow my heart and become a pilot right away. My plan is to attend Embry-Riddle. Yes, I know is expensive, but with financial aid, scholarships, and parent's savings, I know that I will be able to cover all the expenses. Please I need a good advice because I feel lost and don't know what to do. Thank you so much, I really appreciate it:)

[Gregling]

The decision is only yours, the only thing you want to do is something you like. If you can do that, it's already a miracle.

From what I know, and as you told, it's not the best time to become a pilot in the world. I'm, as everyone else on this forum, looking for a job. I finished my training a year ago knowing that I wouldn't be able to find a flight deck job soon. But that's today. As everything else in this world, everything changes. We had the same thing in Europe (France) in the middle 90'. If you start your training this year, you're going to finish it in 2015 normally. You've got time to see what's going to happen.

On another hand, if you want to play the safety card, you can perform aerospace studies scolarship. Nothing will stop you to become a pilot after that.

[pudoc]

The airlines you posted links to are ambitious for a new pilot. Keep those airlines in your head, you have to have goals in life but these airlines come later.

Not sure about Canada, but in the US I know you'd have to start with some regional airlines or general aviation (instructing, banner towing etc). Only a tiny % of new pilots will end up at a big national airline straight away. But as I said, goals are good. So look at what these airlines want. Make sure they'll accept the type of license you'll get in Canada. I cannot remember what licenses ME airlines will accept so check their website, it's probably an ICAO ATPL.

"A minimum of 1000 hours on multi crew,glass cockpit jet aircraft of which 500 hours should be on one of the A320 Family and Current on one of the A320 Family"

It means just that. Before they'll look at you you need 1000hrs on an a/c where there are 2 pilots required, hours on a jet (glass cockpit is a cockpit with screens instead of analogue gauges like the 737NG, A320) and 500 on A320. This basically says "new pilots :mad: off". The way you have to do it is not build hours when there is no reason to. You'll have to find a job somewhere. The requirements above mean you have to have experience on A320, so this could take many years to get to depending on how the job situation is in Canada. I have no idea, probably just as bad as EU. And remember, minimum requirements are only minimum. There will be others applying for that job way more experienced than you so I'd double the hours they require and then you'd be in for a good chance.

I believe in North America a lot of airlines want uni degrees also so look into that.

Before Emirates, expect to spend a lot, earn little and work very hard. And I heard Emirates work you very hard also so don't think it's all glamour on a Dubai beach only flying 10 hours a week.

[Stonebaked]

You need to start at the bottom and work your way up. It's all about hours and experience. Try and find some kind of employment (as hard as it may be) and get some multi crew hours on a recognised aircraft type.

Good luck

[Graham@IDC]

You need to go to the Flyer show at the Sofitel Hotel T5 Heathrow this Saturday. There will be dozens of schools there which can offer you advice.

[pudoc]

^Bit far to go to from Toronto.

[aditya104]

Flying schools are not the best places to seek advice. :}

[Flyer-Katanic]

Thanks for your replies, but id like some advice from a professional airline pilot, not schools. I've taken tons of advice from schools, they were all useful and all happened to say the same thing to pull me towards their own courses.

:)

[Genghis the Engineer]

not schools. I've taken tons of advice from schools, they were all useful and all happened to say the same thing to pull me towards their own courses.

You sir, may just have the right attitude.

G

[206Fan]

What's a good way to build up fly time hours ?Have you considered the Instructor Route?

[Flyer-Katanic]

Instructors route... sounds like a good idea I've never considered it!
One question, after I finish all my training and obtain all the required licenses, I'm considering to get a Type Rating on one of the Airbus planes, advice on that ?

Thanks

[500 above]

I suggest you do a forum search on buying type ratings and P2F. It's precisely this that has lowered our terms and conditions.

[KAG]

I'm considering to get a Type Rating on one of the Airbus planes, advice on that ?

Get an A380 type rating ;)


My first airplane was the Cessna 172, i dont regret it.

Times are harder and it's more expensive nowadays, aim to start on Ultra light or Cessna 150...
Vfr and single piston engine rated, here is the real pilot.

[Flyer-Katanic]

What does P2F mean ?
Sorry I'm still new to the aviation world.

[pudoc]

Pay to fly. It means you pay an airline (usually at least £30,000) to sit in the right hand seat (RHS it's usually called on here) for a year for no pay.

Never ever for forever ever do this.

[Flyer-Katanic]

Whats the average cost to obtain a type rating ?

[KAG]

Flyier Katanic: Whats the average cost

You got it my friend, COST.

My advice is to take your $150 000 (that's what your dream will most likely going to cost you if you add the loss of salary from a nice job, the cost of your brand new CPL, the cost of your type rating, the cost of your pay to work scam, and other spendings al together...) and play with it on wall street or in The City (London): you'll lose less.

Burning $150 000 within 5 years was already a very stupid choice in the past, but nowadays if you add the fact oil price will sky rocket within a few years (within 8 years conventional oil is schedule to decrease dramatically, replaced by much more expensive oil and other energy...), it just look like a casino game played by an addicted: the one who loses at the end whatever happen.

You are in Canada? Stay there if you want to be a pilot.

Start on C172 (or the like), and see where it goes from there, that's where almost all the canadians pilots start from, it costs incredibly less and makes you a better pilot.

[wingreencard]

after line training, you will line up in front of the employment office with thousand of other pilots still looking for a job....

if lucky, you will line up in front of a company, to get a seat to pass psycho tests and interviews and they will ask you if you are willing to pay for their line training program....because each time you change airline, you have to restart the line training program.:eek:

[pudoc]

Whats the average cost to obtain a type rating ?

Turboprops tend to be cheaper. Could be anywhere from £13k-£30k. And then you have to add accommodation, living expenses and don't forget the airline may want you to buy your own uniform etc. Generally speaking, various type rating organisations charge around £17k for a 737NG type rating.

[Flyer-Katanic]

What type rating do you guys recommend that I should obtain ?
Its very debating between and Airbus or Boeing...
I want to work in the Middle East and Emirates and Qatar both have both planes.
I'm honestly considering a B777 type rating at Cockpit Pro in Serbia... Thoughts ?

[KAG]

I'm honestly considering a B777 type rating at Cockpit Pro in Serbia... Thoughts ?


Flying a widebody with 200 hours that's a bit optimistic probably, what opportunities on B777 in Serbia?

When I told you to get a A380 type, I was trying to be humorous, sorry if I failed: A380 type or B777, I believe this is the same as far as you are concerned, it's a bit too much to start with.

Try Cathay if you want to fly a widebody right away, but you'll have to be a second officer first for a few years, you won't be actually flying (some prefer flying piston/turboprop instead).

And finally: paying for a type is not the best option, so if you do so, be sure to have a job first on the same type of airplane.

Why not starting on small airplanes like everybody in Canada, place where you are right now?

Flying a shiny jet (turbofan in fact) shouldn't be you immediate goal, you should first focus on building up your flying skills and decision making abilities, it could take a few thousands hours before flying an airliner...
You are very young, don't skip the best part of your career, flying small airplanes is the best memory for many airline pilots.
In fact many airline pilots buy their own small airplane to entertain themselves when they don't work, think about this fact 2 seconds...


It is excellent to have ambition, meanwhile you own some respect to your career: pretending, hoping to fly a wide body with 200 hours shows you have very little respect and consideration for your future profession, airline pilot.

If this profession, flying a wide body, is available after a 1 year training and 200 hours (less than to be a plumber and many other jobs), so maybe you got the wrong feeling towards the pilot career path and its requirements.
Why dreaming about a career flying wide body if it was so easy to access to with no other requirements than paying for a type rating? Litteraly anybody could do it, so what makes you think this kind of career would be an interesting challenge or rewarding in any way?

That's like asking dentists if there were a way to become dentist within 1 year, you would insult them and their profession.

So first try to find a balance between ambition and self respect (you are the future airline pilot right?), then rethink your strategy to become a professional pilot.

[Flyer-Katanic]

haha sorry I didn't understand the fact that you were kidding around, all good tho! :)

Sorry if you misunderstood, but after I finish my ATPL, I do plan on getting a job with charters,medvac &etc planes, don't get me wrong.

But what I was trying to put out is, before I actually start a job with a charter to build up hours, why not obtain a Type-Rating right after my ATPL and get it out of the way ? Rather then stress about it later.

I appreciate your feedback and opinions. I do have great ambition for flying and self respect, I wouldn't be here if I didn't.

[KAG]

Alright, if you plan on building your way up starting with GA, bush and the like, then focus on it first. Get an instructor rating, or float rating, or anything else that could match the current market that you can reach with your skills and networking.
Get what it takes to get your first job, that's where all your mind should be now, many students found themselves stuck in the process because they saw too big too fast: they are not able to get a job in Africa for example flying bush because they have to reimburse large amount of debts, so they either have to stay with mom working on the ground/office, either leave for a pilot job with a nice salary, which is mostly not the case when they start with 200 hours.

After a few thousands hours of GA/bush/instructor/charter... you'll be able to answer the answers you are asking right now.

However if you really want to be inside a wide body right now, have a look at the requirements from the Cathay website: Cathay Pacific - Careers : Careers Home (http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INTL/careers/flying/fdc_so_programmes)

However be informed they don't take everybody who applies (obviously), so you really have to prepare the interview/test, and will take years (6 or 7 years after your interview) before you start as a first officer, because there is the training first, and the second officer experience.
Within this time frame I have seen people becoming jet captain in Asia...

Canada is one of the best country when it comes to aviation (Australia aswell), since you are in Canada why not having a look there first? AVCANADA &bull; Index page (http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/)

If I were in Canada, 19 years old, no experience, I would move close to Perimeter right away and bang their door non stop for a ground position, I'd do my training with them, with the plan to be hired on the metroliner and be a captain on it within a few years, next step would be Jazz or the like, then/or Asia/middle east. Perimeter Aviation- Winnipeg,Flight,Cargo,NDT,Air Ambulance,Medevac,Aircraft Maintenance,Charter,Flight School,Design and Engineering,Non Destructive Testing,Winnipeg Manitoba North,Canada (http://www.perimeter.ca/)
But what do I know? ;););)

[4015]

But what I was trying to put out is, before I actually start a job with a charter to build up hours, why not obtain a Type-Rating right after my ATPL and get it out of the way ? Rather then stress about it later.

If you can afford to keep your TR current, which means completing a check ride every year, then there's no reason not to really. You'll probably find that the experience you gain flying will make your TR easier and therefore less stressful in a few years time anyway, and you don't need it now so there's little point in having it.

I'd personally take the money and get a sports car, get the mid life crisis out of the way instead.