18 Years ago........today

[Dogimed]

On Sunday 24 April 1994, at about 0910 EST, Douglas DC-3 aircraft VH-EDC took off from runway 16 at Sydney (Kingsford-Smith) Airport. The crew reported an engine malfunction during the initial climb and subsequently ditched the aircraft into Botany Bay. The DC-3 was on a charter flight to convey a group of college students and their band equipment from Sydney to Norfolk Island and return as part of Anzac Day celebrations on the island.

All 25 occupants, including the four crew, successfully evacuated the aircraft before it sank.

Well done to two of the tech crew!

Cheers....

Dog

[tipsy]

Flown by a very early PPRuNer, suitably named

V1 Ooop's

tipsy:ok:

[Dogimed]

Possibly a great example of not turning back...

[VH-XXX]

Was that one attributed to a gross case of aircraft unfamiliarity? Just sayin. It was mentioned in here a while back.

[Centaurus]

I vaguely recall the accident report mentioned something about the PF using mainly aileron to counter yaw instead of appropriate amount of rudder? The foot-load on single engine can be quite high and the vertical angle of the rudder pedals in relation to the angle of the pilots foot on a pedal can also be awkward.

[Aye Ess]

EDC has been owned by many operators over the years. I've painted it twice now in Qantas and Air Queensland liveries.

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a401/alan_spears/QNDC3.jpg?t=1335296129

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a401/alan_spears/VH-EDC.jpg?t=1308905620

[Ollie Onion]

Seem to remember just a couple of weeks ago seeing a news article on this incident. It was highlighting the fact that after the incident the Captain of the aircraft was hauled over the coals by CASA and ultimately lost his licence. It was regained eventually but his career was over due to the 'stigma' surrounding this. Very unfortunate as I think it is generally accepted now that this tech crew did an absolutely amazing job in getting this thing down and everyone off. You would be able to count on one hand then incidents of passenger aircraft successfully ditching without the loss of life.

This crew should of been 'praised' not hung out to dry.

[Al E. Vator]

Is the first painting above that of the DC3 just before it ditches??

[Aye Ess]

Al E Vator.....Ha,but nope. The first painting in Qantas colours would be from around 1964 when it was used as a freighter between Sydney and Port Morseby. At the time of it's saltwater bath it was owned by 'South Pacific Airmotive' and its markings were a slight derivation of the old Australian Airlines colour scheme.

[tipsy]

For the armchair experts, read what the actual investigators said at the time.

Investigation: 199401043 - Douglas Aircraft Co Inc DC3C-S1C3G, VH-EDC (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/1994/aair/aair199401043.aspx)

[Fris B. Fairing]

Al

I believe that Aye Ess is currently working on a painting of VH-EDC just before the ditching. Working title for the painting is rumoured to be:

"Singing Tooral liooral liaddity"

Poor old EDC sat at Camden for several years after being recovered from Botany Bay. It is reported that the airframe was "blown up" for the movie "Australia" but I've been unable to verify that. Does anyone know for sure?

Rgds

[Aye Ess]

For the younger generation reading Frisbee's comment and being confused. The next line from the song is 'bound for Botany Bay'

The Bay was full of boaties that day who were at the aircraft in seconds to help the occupants out. There is even a photo of the FO standing on top of the fuselage. Maybe someone has a copy of that?

[RHLMcG]

read what the actual investigators said at the time.

Rod's comments (http://members.ozemail.com.au/~rodlovell/vh-edc/Article%20by%20Rod%20Lovell.pdf) contrast a little (as one might expect).

Certainly, I have sympathy for some of his thoughts - for better balance, the investigation report ought to have had some qualifications/caveats included in respect of a number of comments/conclusions.

An interesting chap whom I knew reasonably well prior to and around the date of the mishap - although I can't recall ever having flown in the cockpit with him.

[Checkboard]

18 years ago today, the "Friends of Laphroaig" began. They reached their 500,000th member today. (I got an email about it.)

[StallsandSpins]

Mac Job wrote a good two part article on the investigation in to this incident in Australian Aviation years ago. I cant remember which issue it was but i would like to get a copy if anyone can remember. The only time i ever went up in a dc3 was in edc at warrnabool shortly before this incident. RL and BB were flying it at the time. i got to sit in the jump seat for takeoff and landing and we went on a short hop up the coast past the twelve apostles. I last saw the remains of this aircraft at camden about 10 years ago.

[Trent 972]

I heard it told that one of the drivers exited the cockpit onto the roof, walked back along the top, stepped onto the tailplane and into the rescue boat without getting his shoes wet.
If so, that is the stuff of Legends. :ok:

[Kris Lovell]

Aye Ess..

Was the Qantas Aussie flag really on backwards on that side?

VH-XXX
Was that one attributed to a gross case of aircraft unfamiliarity? Just sayin. It was mentioned in here a while back.


Technical crew
Pilot in command - Total on type 927

Ignoring the other as unverified.. I'd say thats a significant amount of DC3 time to be familiar with the aircraft, even if he wasnt the handling pilot initially.

Ollie
This crew should of been 'praised' not hung out to dry.

I've only known of one other pilot who disagreed with the above sentiment, and he had a very vested interest in DC3's. Thankfully he is long retired... I hope..

Centaurus
I vaguely recall the accident report mentioned something about the PF using mainly aileron to counter yaw instead of appropriate amount of rudder?

Disputed in dear old dads own words..
I dispute the BASI report's statement that "almost full right aileron had been used to control the aircraft". The implication of yaw is overstated. The application of hard right aileron was transient only

Something I wasnt aware of, but have since read in the BASI report ..(my bolding)
The landing gear was observed by witnesses located in a small pleasure craft under the flight path to be retracted prior to the aircraft being ditched. The pilot in command had to manoeuvre the aircraft to avoid hitting the craft whilst making the approach to ditch.


Anyway..
Kris

[Aye Ess]

Hello Kris,
Indeed the flag is correct. On any moving vehicle,be it train,boat or aircraft, the Australian flag always has to have the union jack at the forward end. In modern times,the Virgin lady always flutters her flag union jack forward.
Alan

[Checkboard]

Aye Ess..

Was the Qantas Aussie flag really on backwards on that side?

Flags fly in the wind, and the convention when painting them on aircraft is to paint them as though they were cloth flags attached to the aircraft. The Union Jack in the corner of the Australian flag is thus "upwind". The flag on the other side of the fuselage would look "correct".

[Kris Lovell]

Thank you Gentlemen..

http://www.douglasdc3.com/qantas/qantas4.jpg

Learn something new every day...

Kris

[LeadSled]

Folks,
It is well worth a few minutes reading both the BASI report and Rod's article, and reflecting as to whether anything has changed to this day, except that BASA has become ATSB, and CASA and Airservices have emerged from the CAA.

Personally, I think Rod was made the public scapegoat for the many and varied deficiencies ---- but were any deficiencies his ---- I don't think so.

20:20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, we are all wise after the event.

It certainly wasn't in any way his fault that the aircraft was flying at all, it shouldn't have been flying. Discounting the drag of the unfeathered prop., stopped at 65-66 degrees, is just nonsense ---- if that hadn't happened, the performance would, in all probability, have got them all back on the ground in one piece.

I was very sad to see EDC come to such an unfortunate end, I did my final check for my DC-3 endorsement in this aeroplane. The right engine and prop, as recovered, sit at the Australian Aviation Museum, Bankstown, to this day.

Tootle pip!!

[gileraguy]

Wasn't this the one where they shut down the GOOD engine?

[Critical Reynolds No]

gileraguy
That was the East West accident where they lobbed into the lake on the Golf Course.

[RV6]

Any one know where FO A.B. is now?

[Grogmonster]

Guys,

I was working in Sydney at the time. Some pictures that came my way from a friend.

Groggy

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/grogmonster/VH-EDC006.jpg

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/grogmonster/VH-EDC005.jpg

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/grogmonster/VH-EDC004.jpg

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/grogmonster/VH-EDC003.jpg

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/grogmonster/VH-EDC002.jpg

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/grogmonster/VH-EDC001.jpg

[Grogmonster]

I have scanned the front page from the Telegraph and the Australian both dated 25/04/1994 ANZAC Day.
Groggy

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/grogmonster/TheAustralian25-04-1994.jpg

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/grogmonster/SydneyTelegraph25-04-1994.jpg

[Up-into-the-air]

From the picture in the hanger, it would be interesting to know exactly why the LHE did not fully feather

and

Ask the question as to the contents of the prop book and if the springs/ feathering system etc. properly worked when the engine prop was feathered??

Was the work done properly??

Was the Left hand prop failure to fully feather, the reason for the extra drag and the failure to produce max climb rate from the remaining engine??

What's in the report??

from BASI??

Avid readers, over to you.

[dogcharlietree]

Personally, I think Rod was made the public scapegoat for the many and varied deficiencies ---- but were any deficiencies his ---- I don't think so.

Just remember that this accident happened at nearly the same time as the Monarch and Seaview accidents. The CAA was fighting for survival and had to produce a "head on a block" to appease the public. Rod's was handed to them by a deposed DC3 C&T captain (Mr DC3).

[VH-XXX]

Judging by the position of the member of the flight crew at the front of the aircraft it does indeed look like the earlier post was correct about one of them not getting their feet wet during the entire exercise!

[Sarcs]

Just remember that this accident happened at nearly the same time as the Monarch and Seaview accidents. The CAA was fighting for survival and had to produce a "head on a block" to appease the public. Rod's was handed to them by a deposed DC3 C&T captain (Mr DC3).

Good point dct, if you look at the Aviation Safety Regulation timeline 1982-2011, 1996'-97' was a particularly turbulent time down at Fort Fumble.....
Aviation safety regulation timeline 1982-2011 – Parliament of Australia (http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/1011/Aviation#_Toc284925918)
.....April 1996
CASA board members rejected calls for their resignations from the new Minister for Transport and Regional Development, the Hon John Sharp MP.
Australian, 20 April 1996, 10 July 1997


6 June 1996
NSW Coroner John Gould handed down findings into the 1993 Monarch Airlines crash critical of the airline, the former CAA and the NSW Air Transport Council. The Minister (Mr John Sharp) foreshadowed a review and other actions to address the report's recommendations.
Canberra Times, 7 June 1996; Minister for Transport Media Statement, 6 June 1996 TR46/96.
25 June 1996
The Minister for Transport and Regional Development, the Hon John Sharp MP announced reviews of the regulatory framework and role in an aviation safety ministerial statement. He also introduced the Civil Aviation Amendment Bill 1996 to increase the CASA Board size from four to six people. While the Opposition supported the Bill, it questioned the motives.
House of Representatives, Debates, 25 June 1996, p. 2653.


26 September 1996
The Minister for Transport and Regional Development announced an industry-based panel to oversee the CASA regulatory review headed by Ansett's Mr James Kimpton. The review produced recommendations that could be implemented in 1998, while reporting monthly.
Minister for Transport Media Statement 20 and 26 September 1996, TR101 and 110/96.
8 October 1996
The (Staunton) Report of the Commissioner of the Commission of Inquiry into the Relations Between the CAA and Seaview Air was particularly scathing of CAA operations and identified a number of systemic problems. Recommendations included action against two CAA officers, and suggested mechanisms for responsibility, accountability and documentation. The minister urged changes to CASA and its management board positions. BASI undertook a separate investigation of the incident.
House of Representatives, Debates, 8 and 9 October 1996, p. 5046; Sydney Morning Herald and Australian 9 October 1996.
10 October 1996
The CASA Board released a media statement in relation to certain findings of the Seaview inquiry and lamenting comments about it made by the minister in Parliament.
Australian, 12 October 1996; Sydney Morning Herald, 10 October 1996.
30 October 1996
A large newspaper advertisement with 512 listed names published, later found to be sponsored by the Aircraft Owners' and Pilots' Association, requested the CASA board members to stand aside. It followed the publication of a letter by the CASA Chairman stating why the board should remain in full control despite Ministerial denigration. Meanwhile, CASA developed a program known as Airspace 2000 planned for introduction in 1998. The scheme aimed to achieve an ICAO standard with the use of systems safety, harmonisation and staged delivery.
Australian, 21, 23, 25 and 30 October 1996; Canberra Times, 23 and 31 October 1996.
3 November 1996
Falcon Airlines plane crashed into the sea off Cairns with the occupants safely reaching the shore. The subsequent report by David Wheelahan QC found a possible conflict of interest between CASA, the airline and Minister John Sharp. The Minister had sought an independent report after stating that a response from CASA was inadequate.
AAP, 18 February 1997; Canberra Times, 8 November 1996.


19 November 1996
Concerns expressed in the letter of resignation of the CASA Director of Aviation Medicine Dr Robert Liddell, caused the Minister to ask the Board to reconsider safety.
Minister for Transport, Media Statement TR152/96; Age, 27 November 1996.
5 December 1996
Government response to the Plane Safe report tabled by the Minister for Transport and Regional Development the Hon John Sharp MP. (Refer to 14 December 1995). It included a monthly CASA update on safety breaches. The Senate decided to investigate the purchase of Australia's new search and rescue equipment after faults were found.
Minister for Transport, Media Statement TR167/96; Australian, 6 and 9 December 1996; Age 6 December 1996.
February 1997
Vigorous debates in Parliament regarding CASA Board placements by Transport Minister John Sharp, who continued his criticism of the CASA Board in response to the Wheelahan report and Kimpton inquiry.
Australian, 13, 15 and 17 February 1997.
March 1997
CASA controversy continued with the Report on the Purchase of the Precision Aerial Delivery Systems (PADS) by Airservices Australia by the Senate Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee in March 1997. The report urged the Government to request CASA to address problems highlighted in a report completed by Turtleair regarding search and rescue practices. The June 1997 Government Response to the committee report indicated that resolution of the matters was in hand.
Canberra Times, 14 May 1997.
19 March 1997
Parliament debated the Aviation Legislation Amendment Bill (No.1) 1997 to allow for environmental standards at airports and establish a register of encumbered aircraft.
House of Representatives, Debates p. 1834.
6 May 1997
After new legislation expanded the CASA board to seven positions, Mr Dick Smith was appointed CASA Deputy Chairman under Chairman Justice William Fischer. Mr Laurence Foley joined the board. In June, Ms Gabi Hollows and Captain Molloy retired to be replaced by Dr Paul Scully-Power and Mr Bruce Byron.
Australian, 10 July 1997.


CASA Director of Aviation Medicine Dr Robert Liddell, caused the Minister to ask the Board to reconsider safety.

Excerpt from that letter:
I am in conscience obliged to resign as I have lost confidence in the senior management’s ability to maintain aviation safety. I wish to place on record the reasons for my loss of confidence.
The Office of Aviation Medicine like many other areas within the Authority is a highly specialised unit. The lack of consultation or opportunity to discuss many of the directives and changes which impact on this office, and other offices of the Authority, has eroded staff morale and wasted hundreds of hours of valuable time in dealing with the issues. Furthermore, despite written requests for a response to assist in resolving conflicts on matters of importance, there has been no reply from your office.
This approach is consistent with that demonstrated on several occasions over the last year when the Office of Aviation Medicine has received written directives from your office which as a result of a lack of any prior communication were either inappropriate, factually wrong and not in the best interests of aviation safety in Australia.

..as can be seen not much has changed at the (now Albo's) flying circus...

26 August 1997
Broderick/Willoughby report into the relationship between the Director of Aviation Safety and the CASA Board made recommendations on corporate governance.
House of Representatives, Debates, p. 2288, 12 October 2000.
12 September 1997
CASA also considered the Airspace 2000 proposal of Mr Dick Smith, but deferred it for a year, following lengthy aviation industry objections, even though ASA had approved it on 4 April for implementation on 4 December.
Australian Aviation, October 1997; BP10/98, NPRM 9701RP.
26 September 1997
CASA Director Mr Leroy Keith left after the Board passed a no-confidence motion in his management strategy. Chairman Justice William Fischer and member Dr Clare Pollock both resigned in protest at the Board's handling of the former Director. The New Minister for Transport and Regional Development, the Hon Mark Vaile MP, replaced Mr John Sharp.
Australian Financial Review, 26 September 1997, 7 October 1997.



9 October 1997
CASA produced Systems for Safety: Reviewing Systems in Civil Aviation Safety. This was a report on the safety standards of charter and low-capacity regular passenger transport operators and followed on the concerns expressed in the Plane Safe report. The report's 22 recommendations had accompanying implementation actions and timeframes to be followed. The Civil Aviation Legislation Amendment Bill 1997 introduced in October aimed to simplify the continuous passenger liability insurance arrangements.
CASA Public Report; Australian Aviation August 1998.
28 November 1997
A Report to the Minister of Transport and Regional Development from the Program Advisory Panel regarding its oversight of the CASA Regulatory Framework and Regulatory Role Programs in the CASA Reviews noted substantial outcomes in respect of draft rules and standards since 1996. This independent (Kimpton) panel foresaw continued consultation and regulatory review ahead, while noting that the Regulatory Framework Program would ensure implementation of the Plane Safe recommendations, as well as aspects of the Seaview Commission in line with international standards.
Australian Aviation, November 1997.



......and finally!

24 December 1997
Mr Dick Smith appointed as Chairman of CASA and went on to centralise the authority and close some district offices. Dr Paul Scully-Power became Deputy Chairman, and Mr Michael Ryan and Mr Tony Pyne joined the Board. On 28 August


However turbulent those years were, it seems that from year to year since there has always been some degree of 'turb' associated with Fort Fumble....can be graded from 'light chop' to 'severe'....no wonder they circled wagons and have been in a seige mentality ever since!:{

[VH-XXX]

I can only imagine what would have happened if it was half way to Norfolk Island when it failed!

[Kris Lovell]

XXX

I can only imagine what would have happened if it was half way to Norfolk Island when it failed!


I would imagine a longer time to plan for the ditching... and a longer time to wait for rescue..


Similiar situation... very different ending..
dda (http://www.douglasdc3.com/dda/dda.htm)



Kris

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Was 'EDC' ever repaired, or was it considered to be a write-off..?
:ok:

[Kris Lovell]

http://images2.jetphotos.net/img/1/8/9/6/15215_1171485698.jpg

Last known photo...

Kris

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Thanks Kris.....

:sad:

[dogcharlietree]

I heard it told that one of the drivers exited the cockpit onto the roof, walked back along the top, stepped onto the tailplane and into the rescue boat without getting his shoes wet.
If so, that is the stuff of Legends. :ok:
He was part of the operating crew.
He had a legal and morale obligation to assist in the evacuation of his passengers.
He DESERTED his passengers and fellow crew members in a time of need.

[Lead Balloon]

Yet all POB survived.

Care to explain the reasons for your personal hatred of the crew member to whom you and Trent 972 referred?

[Capt Fathom]

Jeez DC3. 28 years ago. What bought this up again?

[Lead Balloon]

Someone who posts under the name ‘dogcharlietree’.

[gerry111]

Someone who posts under the name ‘dogcharlietree’.
dogcharlietree having taken a few days under ten years to reply to Trent 972.
Pretty nasty stuff.

[Beamr]

dogcharlietree having taken a few days under ten years to reply to Trent 972.
Pretty nasty stuff.
At least he's taken the time to consider his response thoroughly.

[Trent 972]

dogcharlietree having taken a few days under ten years to reply to Trent 972.
Pretty nasty stuff.
Leave me out of it
A cursory review of dogcharlietree’s post history indicates he/she may have been a crew member.
If so, well done.
No lives lost. A great outcome.

Interestingly where I used to work, in an evacuation the F/O could very easily be the first one down the slide/out the door.
Would be a bit harsh to question that 28 years in to the future.

[dogcharlietree]

Rod's comments (http://members.ozemail.com.au/~rodlovell/vh-edc/Article%20by%20Rod%20Lovell.pdf) contrast a little (as one might expect).

Certainly, I have sympathy for some of his thoughts - for better balance, the investigation report ought to have had some qualifications/caveats included in respect of a number of comments/conclusions.

An interesting chap whom I knew reasonably well prior to and around the date of the mishap - although I can't recall ever having flown in the cockpit with him.

As a matter of FACT, that article was requested by Jim Thorn. The highly respected accident Investigator, the late Macarhur Job, assisted greatly in the composition of it.

[dogcharlietree]

dogcharlietree having taken a few days under ten years to reply to Trent 972.
Pretty nasty stuff.
Yes and the reason is there are so many armchair critics who know it all and blindly believe and follow government authorities. So I let them wallow in their misguided glory.
Obviously people forget New Zealand's biggest peacetime disaster - and some say the nation's biggest cover-up. On November 28, 1979, an Air New Zealand DC10 crashed into Mt Erebus.
​"An Orchestrated Litany of Lies". Well, it just doesn't only happen across The Pond.

[First_Principal]

Some insight may be gained from this thread (https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/647538-what-would-you-do.html).

FP.