If you could reintroduce into service an upgraded new build of a proven design.

[NutLoose]

I have been thinking of this for a while, with the throw away world we live in and the next new thing attitude.. and with the Twin Otter, a 60's design being put back into production, simply because it excels at what it does and the best thing to replace a Twotter with is another Twotter

With the likes of the Hunter still hanging on in there with FRADU, Canberra's still operating, all be it highly modified with NASA,

What aircraft from recent history, ( say post war ) if updated and built new, say utilising say some Carbon Fibre and modern structures in it's construction, modern avionics, systems and modern more efficent engines, would you think would still be viable in the world of today? And why?

After all, simply because it is new does not necessarily mean it is better than those that came before..

The ones I thought of were

The Hunter

The Buccaneer

The Caribou

The Canberra

[BEagle]

TSR2

Harrier

Vulcan

Hornet (the de Havilland one!)

[WE992]

E E Lightning

[Dan Gerous]

Phantom, Bucc, Lightning, Hunter, VC10, Jag.

[taxydual]

The Andover CC2. Then re-form The Queens Flight.

[bingofuel]

Well the Belfast could re incarnated as say, an A400M!

[Not_a_boffin]

F14D + Bucc. Nowt else needed....

[ALM In Waiting]

SR-71 (as a bomber)

[cornish-stormrider]

Bucc, TSR-2, EE lightning, SR-71, Concorde, Hunter, Vulcan, F-14.
Victor, Wessex, 'Tooms.
Transport A/C of someone else's choice.
V8 ragtop landys.
All sqn engineers will have at least one US muscle car as a pool car - just because....

[Cleared Hot]

I know you said post war but can I get away with this?

Fieseler Fi 156 Storch demo 1938 - YouTube

[Riskman]

Nimrod. It could be the Nimrod 2020, later to be renamed MRA6 (in 2021)

[Piltdown Man]

The best candidate has to be the Harrier.

PM

[fantom]

My Toyota Camry.

[Captain Radar....]

Mosquito!!!

[PEI_3721]

How about a Lightning ‘6+’ version. A Pegasus for the lower engine (short takeoff and landing + VIFF), standard over-wing tanks and an option for stores carriage, and with export version under-wing stores pylons.
Modern radar, 4 smaller fuselage mounted missiles (Y pylons), and guns of course.
Conformal fuselage fuel tanks if more fuel required … (oh, silly boy).

But for panache, refinement, and for being just right … a Hunter.

[ShyTorque]

How about the Puma, after forty one years in RAF service (it'll never last of course), being reborn as...

..................THE PUMA!! :E

Eh, wassat? They thought of that already? :O

:ok:

[charliegolf]

Anticipated it. Boom boom!

CG

[FATTER GATOR]

Nimrod MRA4...build by a competent manufacturer; contracted for by a competent purchasing authority.

[Bob Viking]

I'm not sure you've all understood the question. I don't think Nutloose requested a list of past aircraft we like or have fond feelings for. He asked which could actually be reworked as a modern, relevant aircraft. As much as I love some of the aircraft mentioned I'm not entirely sure they have a place in a modern Air Force.
I think the most sensible options so far are Harrier (clearly still a useful aircraft) and Vulcan (a heavy bomber able to loiter for hours and carry a decent weapons complement is clearly a useful platform).
If I had to suggest something else just to show that I'm not all mouth I would probably say a newer version of the venerable Hawk made from some sort of composite and with a bigger engine and bigger cockpit to make a truly world class training platform (cynics might suggest you could call it the T-50!!).
BV:8

[Canadian Break]

Lightning - no further words needed!:ok:

[Bob Viking]

With the greatest of respect and with all due deference to the abilities and beauty of the Lightning, I'm not entirely sure that an aircraft that flies very fast in a straight line but carries A-A stores only (and very few of them when all is said and done) really has a place in the modern world.
Just my opinion of course.
BV:O

[airborne_artist]

A Mosquito made out of modern composites would be superb.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I vote for the JP5. I do not think turboprop trainers have been a success.

.and there must be 1001 uses for Mossies still. It would probably be the best COIN aircraft ever, cheap as chips, and your recruitment problems would be over! Would also suit reservists. 737 by day, Mosquito at the weekend.

[HighTow]

Airspeed Horsa ;)

I claim post-war as they were still in service up to '57.

[ShyTorque]

Anticipated it. Boom boom!

CG

Hey CG, you and I could probably get one started, airborne and on task without too much trouble... :ok:

[ShyTorque]

I'm pretty certain there was some high level talk of a turboprop powered Mustang for the central front not too long in the dim and distant past.

[ExAscoteer]

I'm pretty certain there was some high level talk of a turboprop powered MustangIt was called the 'Cavalier Mustang', designed for the COIN Mission, and powered by a RR Dart.

[Milo Minderbinder]

Possibly a better bet as a COIN aircraft would be the Hawker Tempest, with re-engineered composite construction and turboprop.

[Jackonicko]

Canberra (for recce, EW training, target towing etc.) All you'd need would be bigger modern engines, and much more rudder authority.

A-10

Jag (with a big composite wing)

Bronco

Andover CC1. Able to land on a ploughed field, and arguably a cheap-to-run alternative to Chinook for some missions.

[althenick]

Had a few thoughts on this and came up with

Buccaneer - composite materials and new avionics suite. It was good back then -could it be made better?

Gannet - again composite materials new AEW Radar and steerable oleo

Skyhawk - Nice and cheap - again new materials plus COT Avionics package

[reynoldsno1]

I believe the Caribou is already back with turboprops in Afghanistan (flown by 'civilians') - Southern Air Transport II ...?!!?

[rjtjrt]

SR-71
F-111
Hunter and Mirage III - both so beautiful!

[AGS Man]

In my humble opinion it has to be the mighty Toom. Still in service with some upgrades, good payload, multi role, and fast.
An afterburning Hunter with a thin wing would be nice tho!

[SunderlandMatt]

Concord as a bomber.
Harrier as a......replacement for GR4 & Eurofighter 2000. Change the engine for something with a bit more kick though.

[typerated]

Buccaneer:

I am sure Mrk 3 would have been far superior to the Tornado.

Perhaps a Mrk 4 might be a better strike machine than the F-35!

[barnstormer1968]

The Canberra was mentioned above, and I'd happily go along with that, but a Martin Canberra with better cockpit vision and gun pack/wing pylons.

A Belfast could be good for bulky loads, but obviously not with the original engines!

How about a two seat jag with a bubble style canopy, better engines etc. This could be a lovely CAS platform, but then so could a Buccaneer (if it had a gun or two).

[Halton Brat]

I recall a c.1970ish RAF yearbook cover with an artist's impression of Concorde in RAF colours with a Blue Steel planted in its' belly, thundering eastwards.

(Waits patiently for someone to post image.......)

HB

[Lightning Mate]

With the greatest of respect and with all due deference to the abilities and beauty of the Lightning, I'm not entirely sure that an aircraft that flies very fast in a straight line but carries A-A stores only (and very few of them when all is said and done) really has a place in the modern world.

I don't like to say it, but the man's right.

This, however, is an entirely different proposition.....

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/tsr2ro4.jpg

[Big Bear]

Thinking out of the box, we could go the way of many other air forces who can't afford to maintain a decent fast jet fleet and.....

Bloodhound, with a phased array radar and 400km missiles, like say....SA-21.

Bear

[Milo Minderbinder]

Concorde bombers (or fantasies therof)

http://ukarmedforcescommentary.********.co.uk/p/successor-submarine-trident.html
replace the stars with b.l.o.g.s.p.o.t without stops

Black RS-76 "Bomber Concorde" by ~Bispro on deviantART (http://bispro.deviantart.com/art/Black-RS-76-quot-Bomber-Concorde-quot-169778968)

[Lightning Mate]

(Waits patiently for someone to post image.......)

My pleasure....

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/concordebluesteel.jpg

[Halton Brat]

Thanks LM! Funky desert cam scheme too!

HB

[Lightning Mate]

Where else would it be operated these days?

[rolling20]

Gotta be the VICTOR! Still looks fresh today.

[Barksdale Boy]

Well, that's made TTN's day.

[ShyTorque]

Turbo Mustang developments! I knew I'd heard of this in the 1980s, later Cold War times. Here's a link to a great website about this, with photos:

*** CRAZY HORSE AVIATION PHOTOGRAPHY *** (http://www.crazyhorseap.be/Mustangs/History/CavalierEnforcer/CavalierEnforcer_02.htm)

Interesting to read that the first prototype of this modified Mustang was lost after the elevator trim came off! Shades of the terrible Reno accident last year.....

[Lightning Mate]

Well, that's made TTN's day.

Mind you, put a couple of great aeroplanes together and there will be more smiles. :)

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu82/Lightning_29/VictorTankerandHarriers.jpg

[barnstormer1968]

Halton.
I cannot open the links above, but have heard that some of the spars on Concorde were shaped to carry weapons (such as a single blue steel) if needs be. I heard it on this site, which is a rumour site after all.

EDITED TO ADD: Lightning Mate surely the colour scheme you show is missing the white top to the cockpit as usually worn with that scheme (we will forget the black underside due to the altitude of the aircraft). I remember seeing Hercs in that scheme, but of course back then we had more than one air force!

[VX275]

Airspeed Horsa http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif

I claim post-war as they were still in service up to '57.

I'd second that, along with the Hamilcar.

Having stood on a DZ whilst a Herc disgorged a full load of paratroops I was horrified at just how far the last man out was from the Wedge stores, and I thought then that it was time for the Assault glider to re-appear.

And before anyone chirps in to say "Helicopter" I'll reply by saying "I could hear that one coming along with the Helicopter in the distance."

[Wander00]

Hmmm....M...R...C...A... - Must Refurbish C*******s Again

I'll get my coat...

[D120A]

Mother Riley's Cardboard Aeroplane more like.

[Doors Off]

OV-10 Bronco.

Persistance, redundancy, manoeuvrability, and a stable sensor/weapons platform with excellent visibility.

Really wish that the COIN upgrade mooted several years ago for the Global War on Terror had gone ahead. A very capable aircraft with lots of room for growth. The only fixed wing that I would be seen in public in.

Gazelle AH-1. Way better than the 500 series (no offence to the operators of the 500 series:D, an amazing helicopter) but without the mighty US industrial might behind the upgrades.

Cheers,

Doors Off

[Pontius Navigator]

Agree SR71 bomber but Vulcan Interceptor. Load it with updated Phoenix in rotary launchers in the bomb bay. Add ALCM and it could do OCA as well.

[YYZguy]

OV-10 Bronco upgraded for COIN.
F-14D upgraded for everything (it can do it all)
A-4 upgrade (cheap and effective)
TSR-2 (because I believe it had massive growth potential)

[Halton Brat]

Spitfire Mk IX, with self-dipping rear-view mirror.

There.

Perfection.

[Tankertrashnav]

Gotta be the VICTOR! Still looks fresh today



Well, that's made TTN's day.


Yep, sure has! Not sure what role it would have other than hanging around looking cool and making all the other aircraft jealous ;)

(Another nice pic LM :ok:)

[dazdaz1]

After reading the op (non country type is my understanding) I'd go for the MiG 17

Daz

[Lightning Mate]

W...H...A...T...?

[EyesFront]

A modern Il-2 Sturmovik would have its uses for cheap COIN (aka small change?)

[cornish-stormrider]

Concorde with B1-B rotary launchers - that is just filth....
long range serious amount of speed at altitude, small dive, slow down and pull, then ripple fire all the bullets an back into the blowers.

Home for tea and medals before they even get to you.....

[taxydual]

Ah, wasn't one problem with Concorde (travelling faster than a bullet etc) that if it opened fire, it would shoot itself down. :)



I know the drill. Hat, coat and acknowledgment to David Gunson

[Milo Minderbinder]

Someone thought it was a good idea

http://www.concordesst.com/duxford/archive/pictures/52.jpg

[NutLoose]

Ohh I think we had some cracking ideas back then

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk126/generalmelchett/raf-concorde.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk126/generalmelchett/P1030291Large.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk126/generalmelchett/P1030270Medium.jpg

About the concept

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17192&mode=threaded&pid=194297

[NutLoose]

Hi everyone, my latest offering comes in the form of an early proposal for a nuclear missile equipped variant of the ubiquitous VC10, one of several such interesting proposals submitted by the Vickers Corporation and BAC in the early sixties. A bit of background for those interested. The VC10 was seriously looked at for adaption to a variety of roles including ballistic missile carrier, maritime and electronic recon, AEW, and even the worlds largest interceptor!!!.To meet these roles Vickers and BAC proposed using multi role modular aircraft with interchangable noses and fuselages, totally unique at the time. These nuclear equipped aircraft were to have worked alongside then gradually have replaced the V-Bombers in time.
This version the ALBM carrier was based on the Type 1106 variant ,(as used by Transport Command) but had the standard 1100 airliner fuselage matched with the Super's 1150 wings (to take the weight of the Skybolts and which had a more appropriate Mach rating) and uprated Conway Co.43 engines.The nose was heavily re profiled to encase the NBS and H2S systems and tanks were fitted to the extreme wing tips. Up to eight Skybolts could be carried pushing the total payload up to a massive 40,000lbs, this is the main reason that I added a new beefier undercarriage with a lower pressure footprint enabling it to be flown from more RAF airfields.There was also mention of fitting reheat to the Conways, RATO packs or even replacing them altogether with Bristol BS.81 turbofans of 36,000 lbs thrust each.

An impressive way of looking at the strike potential would be to say that it would take 72 Vulcans and 32 Victors to carry a creditable deterrent whereas only 42 VC10's would have been needed to do the same job!

Weapons to have been carried were 8 (or more usually 4) Douglas Skybolts, 4 Z.89's or 6 Bristol X.12's....a truely frightening war load!!!

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx168/jasper999/P1090676-1.jpg

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx168/jasper999/P1090683-1-1.jpg

More info on the proposal and pics

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=57686

[scr1]

For Transport/Gunship DC3

[EEngr]

Not because they were popular or in widespread use, but I'd like to see either the Avro Canada CF-105 or the North American XB-70. Just to see how these prototypes might have turned out.

[sandiego89]

Some good ones already mentioned, but I agree with Bob Viking that several nominated may rate very high on the nostalgia scale, but perhaps not so much on the usefullness side.

I agree with the A-10, OV-10, Buffalo/Carribou, A-4. I also nominate a turbo prop Skyraider for COIN work and a fresh F-15 with the latest avionincs.

I respectfully question serveral nominations so far, while again they may be high on the nostalgia scale, even with a major upgrade some inherit design limitations may limit utility:
-Vulcan- Yes very sound design, but high radar cross section. Fine for a standoff launcher.
-Buccaneer- high radar cross section.
-Lightning- poor range, manueverabilty nowhere near later generation fighters due to wing design. New engines would help. See it as point interceptor only- not multi-role.
-Harrier- mixed thoughts. Yes a sound design that would greatly benefit from a refresh, but nozzle layout makes it vulnerable to IR threats. Great when you really need V/STOL, but how often do you REALLY need V/STOL? And no I don't want to start a Falklands debate.
-Canberra- for what? As a medium bomber I think it would be very vulnerable in todays threat environment.
-Concorde Bomber- yes very sexy looking, but do you really need that speed and height to launch cruise missles?
-JAG. Mixed thoughts here as well, yes an upgade would help, espcially with better engines, but payload was limited.
-Gannet- I think other designs have more to offer (E-2, S-3)

-ducks for cover

[aw ditor]

Shackleton Mk3, with Nomads'.

[oxenos]

The Nomad proposal had 3000 hp driving a single 4 bladed 13 ' prop. One wonders if the prop could have handled that much power, since the Griffon, at 2435 hp drove 2 three bladed 13' props.

[Courtney Mil]

Well, as we have them already, let's have Typhoon and GR4s with all the systems right and the full-up capability. Do it right this time without all the mistakes/politics/stuff.

[Uncle Ginsters]

The VC10, re-engined and made out of modern materials and avionics would be a venerable beast! High sub-sonic cruise, increased payload (and armed if needed), modern lift-augmentation add-ons. You could even make it a tanker!;)

[NutLoose]

Would of been nice to see supersonic version of the Harrier to have come to fruition..

Still think a re-engined Hunter with something like a reheated RB199 in it, cheap off the shelf modern avionics and weapons systems.. Would be a cheap, simple proven fighter and a export sales winner.

As for the VC 10 there was a study I think to put 3 engines per side using the core of the V2500? Myself I always thought it would have made sense to re-engine them with a couple of Trents, after all they tested the RB211 on one side, why not simply duplicate that... Ahh a new version of it would be sweet.

[Mach Two]

Ah, the Harrier again. Predictable. Maybe the message is that aircraft chopped 'before their time' were due for culling. Sadly that includes a jet or two I would like to have seen kept, but things move on. Better things in service now. Better things to come. Best suggestion here is the re-engined VC10. Thinner wings to improve mpg. Make a lovely VIP cruiser.

[Rocket2]

"The Andover. Then re-form The Queens Flight"
Pleeeeease re-form 115 Sqn first after I've done a refresher course on how to play bridge - happiest of all my days service - thanks DB & all the crews .......

[mat777]

A vulcan fighter bomber, made of carbons and with something like P&W F119 engines, loaded with bombs as well as guns and air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles .......
.......excuse me whilst I fetch a tissue

[Al R]

Short Skyvan?

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Rocket2,

No need to reform 115 Sqn - they have been!

115 (R) Sqn are CFS (Bulldog) Sqn/CFS (Tutor) Sqn

Duncs:ok:

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Of course you could take the world's premier MPA - the Nimrod MR2 - and re-engine it - say with RR BR700 type engines. You could give it a 14 hr unrefuelled endurance as well as increasing, exponentially, the amount of information that could be processed. It could be capable of monitoring 64 sonobuoys as well as carrying the full arsenal of weapons. And, of course, it could be crewed by highly professional, determined and motivated individuals.

Or not.

Duncs:ok:

[Bob Viking]

But where would you find such high calibre individuals?!
BV:E

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

BV,

That's what I meant! ;)

Duncs:ok:

[SASless]

This would be my first choice.....a real Man's airplane....even Beags might like it!

Add latest turbines and props...avionics....and if you needed to haul lots long stuff she would be a Queen!


http://www.livingwarbirds.com/images/1-images3911/300px-C-133b-sanfrancsiscobay.jpg